M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread - HIDDEN

[Vecna]

I would think Darg giving out Fruit is pro-mafia, not pro-town, isn't it? Since it fucks with the Faith Healers?

Vecna, why do you think ghug is scum? I feel like you would have a good enough meta read on him to see he's town.

my meta reads on ghug have never worked and are always wrong. He has an entirely new playstyle every time, so I dont see why you'd apply the meta argument.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Jamie

Assuming you are right about ghug (I'm unconvinced) how about

Seth ghug rdr Bunny

That work?

I can see that being more than 50% right.

Damo, you voted Ghug for a significant part of today. What changed your mind? Why are you now unconvinced, when earlier you were voting for Ghug?

He is less playful and seems more solve focussed hence my scumread waned. It is possible that he is scum and thought he better put in an effort to appear more scumhunting townlike, he is skilled enough to do that. I'm about 80%town 20%scum on him (rough top of the head figures).

Your 'more than 50%' kind of implies you think 3 out of those 4 are scum. Which one is the odd one out?

You really think there has been a noticable change in Ghug's behaviour, during the current phase?

I do not agree, at all. I think Ghug's behaviour has moved back and forth between "playful" and "solve focussed", as you put it, all game. I'm slightly puzzled that you don't see it like that. I really don't see how you went from scumreading Ghug to potentially townleaning Ghug today. If anything this just reinforces the picture that multiple people have been expressing vague scumreads on Ghug, but there's a general reluctance to actually vote him. If he's scum then there's definitely something going on there.

As for your question, I'm not all that certain. As the game has gone on, I agree that Seth has looked increasingly dodgy. I need to look for any connections between him and Ghug. BunnyGo I'm not sure on. I can see Rdrivera as scum and I think it's entirely possible Ghug would bus him here.

Damo, please set out your reason for voting Rdrivera. Is he your top scumread?

[Jamiet99uk]

A sudden Rdrivera wagon appearing out of nowhere just after I ask a question about Rdrivera is worrying me.

You should join me/darg and vote as a block. The scumvote is too influential atm and a lot of people are trying real hard to get out from under our scrutiny.

How come you're no longer voting with Dargorygel, Vecna?

Will you join me on Ghug?

[kgray]

it should be used on someone unlikely to be killed so it cannot be construed as trying to save someone that could potentially be scum

@anyone else - thoughts?

I was going to stay out of the mechs discussions... but I think if we do this, we have to then have one person voting the alleged gov target to prove that it was used as declared, and that probably just means town has one less vote.

[Jamiet99uk]

it should be used on someone unlikely to be killed so it cannot be construed as trying to save someone that could potentially be scum

@anyone else - thoughts?

I was going to stay out of the mechs discussions... but I think if we do this, we have to then have one person voting the alleged gov target to prove that it was used as declared, and that probably just means town has one less vote.

I am categorically opposed to any plan that involves the UB Governor exposing themselves and then wasting their action.

[kgray]

and why do you think scum have advised him to be quiet when its clearly making people scumread him hard, while him talking made people townread him?

Last game him talking made me townread him, but that hasn't been the case in this game. I don't really think that his absence is alignment-indicative but when he has shown up the past few days I didn't get any townvibes from him.

Did you? Or is your townread of him still based on D1?

[Vecna]

##vote Ghug

Im not sure if I actually prefer this over Chaqa and Rdrivera though. Chaqa's trying to discredit my block of reads by discrediting my ghug read. Rdrivera is trying to discredit my block reads by discrediting my townread of Damo and Kgray.

[Vecna]

and why do you think scum have advised him to be quiet when its clearly making people scumread him hard, while him talking made people townread him?

Last game him talking made me townread him, but that hasn't been the case in this game. I don't really think that his absence is alignment-indicative but when he has shown up the past few days I didn't get any townvibes from him.

Did you? Or is your townread of him still based on D1?

Yes, I should probably go revisit it and stop being stubborn, but those type of reads normally turn out right, even if I start doubting them later on.

[Chaqa]

I would think Darg giving out Fruit is pro-mafia, not pro-town, isn't it? Since it fucks with the Faith Healers?

Vecna, why do you think ghug is scum? I feel like you would have a good enough meta read on him to see he's town.

my meta reads on ghug have never worked and are always wrong. He has an entirely new playstyle every time, so I dont see why you'd apply the meta argument.

Huh. I don't feel his playstyle changes at all. That's more a thing Maniac does.

That said, I have that same feeling you do (on reading ghug) except for other players. A good example is someone like rivera. I can never read him

[Chaqa]

##vote Ghug

Im not sure if I actually prefer this over Chaqa and Rdrivera though. Chaqa's trying to discredit my block of reads by discrediting my ghug read. Rdrivera is trying to discredit my block reads by discrediting my townread of Damo and Kgray.

I am actively trying to discredit your ghug read because I think it's wrong. I also think if we mis-DK we're in huge trouble, so I'm pretty adamant about getting this vote right. I think Kgray is the correct answer, personally, and I think ghug (along with you and Jamie, and probably Dargo) is the most wrong answer.

[Vecna]

Reread the Seth D1. Still feel the exact same way ive felt all game. So many strong townpings from nearly all his posts.

[kgray]

I haven't read anything this morning that makes me wanna leave my vote on macca.

I also still scumread bunny... his return is hoppy. I am not a fan of people posting as they read. I am usually suspicious that they try to leverage it to look surprised. Bunny's 'write-along' seems to react individually to things, rather than look for a connected narrative. No narrative here.

The fact that he continues to scumread me after his return IS a good sign, though. If he had read through, and then pretended to read through and post, he could have (if scum) noticed a number of town-reads on me, and simply jumped on the bandwagon.

@Jamie I have not scum-read ghug strongly. He HAS nudged over from time to time, but i HAVE noticed what 'feels' like a consistency with him. Ghug in a QT would be changing his outlook and presentation, due to the community interaction in the other room. I have not been able to see that type of change.

I DO sense that type of change in Macca.

Seth remains on my scumlist, and the more quiet he is, the more his shade grows.

I will agree that Bunny continuing to scumread darg seems townie, as I feel like that's the last wagon scum would try to get going here.

I also think I can definitively rule out a darg/Bunny scumpair because if they were teammates and Bunny was trying to distance or push a wagon on his teammate that he knew was going nowhere, I don't think he'd focus on how anti-town the FV could be. It would be more vague suspicion, I think.

[damo666]

I can see that being more than 50% right.

Damo, you voted Ghug for a significant part of today. What changed your mind? Why are you now unconvinced, when earlier you were voting for Ghug?

He is less playful and seems more solve focussed hence my scumread waned. It is possible that he is scum and thought he better put in an effort to appear more scumhunting townlike, he is skilled enough to do that. I'm about 80%town 20%scum on him (rough top of the head figures).

Your 'more than 50%' kind of implies you think 3 out of those 4 are scum. Which one is the odd one out?

You really think there has been a noticable change in Ghug's behaviour, during the current phase?

I do not agree, at all. I think Ghug's behaviour has moved back and forth between "playful" and "solve focussed", as you put it, all game. I'm slightly puzzled that you don't see it like that. I really don't see how you went from scumreading Ghug to potentially townleaning Ghug today. If anything this just reinforces the picture that multiple people have been expressing vague scumreads on Ghug, but there's a general reluctance to actually vote him. If he's scum then there's definitely something going on there.

As for your question, I'm not all that certain. As the game has gone on, I agree that Seth has looked increasingly dodgy. I need to look for any connections between him and Ghug. BunnyGo I'm not sure on. I can see Rdrivera as scum and I think it's entirely possible Ghug would bus him here.

Damo, please set out your reason for voting Rdrivera. Is he your top scumread?

I did explain my rdr vote (although I've now moved off onto Seth who is my top scumread), I think it improbable both darg and rdr are town. If rdr survives to endgame (which is inevitable if he is not DK'd because he is either scum or if town he won't get NK'd) then he becomes too much of a liability.

[kgray]

##vote Chaqa

Is this finally happening???

##vote Chaqa

[kgray]

But yeah, I can see why damo/bunny is susp of you Darg

Your role is effectively an unlimited strongman that can kill anything except the commuter.

Downside being ofcourse that if its used that way you instantly die in a massclaim

I feel like the fact that he didn't send fruit to the NK targets makes it very unlikely that he's scum.

[rdrivera2005]

##vote Ghug

Im not sure if I actually prefer this over Chaqa and Rdrivera though. Chaqa's trying to discredit my block of reads by discrediting my ghug read. Rdrivera is trying to discredit my block reads by discrediting my townread of Damo and Kgray.

I am not discrediting anything. I asked for an explanation. And you didn't give any.

[Jamiet99uk]

##vote Chaqa

Is this finally happening???

##vote Chaqa

How many pages behind are you?

Vecna is now voting for Ghug. So should you.

[kgray]

##vote Ghug

Im not sure if I actually prefer this over Chaqa and Rdrivera though. Chaqa's trying to discredit my block of reads by discrediting my ghug read. Rdrivera is trying to discredit my block reads by discrediting my townread of Damo and Kgray.

Oh

I don't oppose a ghug wagon and I think he could definitely be scum, but Chaqa is a lot more likely and I'm not convinced they could be scum together... Would Chaqa "buddy" his teammate that much?

[kgray]

##vote Chaqa

Is this finally happening???

##vote Chaqa

How many pages behind are you?

Vecna is now voting for Ghug. So should you.

I see that...

[Chaqa]

Vecna is voting ghug.

Meanwhile, the only thing Kgray has been doing is OMGUSing me.

Vecna, you're throwing.