M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread - HIDDEN

[Hamilton Brian]

- Bunny wondering if Hamilton Brian has a point to any of this of likes being a chronicler.

Partially my learning style.

[kgray]

@kgray you told me darg was a townread halfway through D2. Why were you willing to vote for him later?

Partially because I preferred to keep HR, but also partially because I started to be less sure of the townread. Him following Maniac onto Jamie for "information" really bugs me. I also thought him saying he was sheeping me by moving to HR was more than just "unfiltered town inconsistencies" and when questioned about that he didn't respond even though he did respond to other questions directed at him.

[damo666]

- Bunny wondering if Hamilton Brian has a point to any of this of likes being a chronicler.

Partially my learning style.

Bit zzzzz for the rest of us though tbh

[Hamilton Brian]

It's not my job to be clear in the moment. It's my job to leave artefacts that can create expectations for my behavior in retrospect.

I don't know why this bothers me so much.

[damo666]

It's not my job to be clear in the moment. It's my job to leave artefacts that can create expectations for my behavior in retrospect.

I don't know why this bothers me so much.

Broken bisuits

[ghug]

It's not my job to be clear in the moment. It's my job to leave artefacts that can create expectations for my behavior in retrospect.

I don't know why this bothers me so much.

It's an odd assertion to make on the surface, I'll grant you.

I wanted people voting for darg. Telling people that I'd vote for Maniac if it came down to it undermines that. I want everyone to lay out enough of their thoughts that we can go back and look to see if their actions are lining up. I think my statements were enough to make a lack of a Maniac vote incongruous if it came to it, which is living up to my own standard there.

[ghug]

Jamie's been online and hasn't told me what he thinks of bo.

This is clearly a lie of omission.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Ghug: What is your read on Maniac now?

I've always found Maniac hard to read, so it's still somewhere in the null zone. There are two things that stick out to me. One, that he's a little more present and understandable than last game, which pushes a little towards scum, but not a lot, since people still aren't liking him and last game's performance warrants an adjustment. Two, that there wasn't a rush of votes onto HR when he was a competing wagon, which either means he's town or several of his teammates were already on him or HR coming into the end of the day. I also dislike that bo wants him dead so much.

What's your read on bo?

I see. Thank you for answering. As a follow-up, what do you think of Maniac's claim that he was around for EoD and just sat silently watching my wagon dissipate, then flipped onto HR at the last moment? Do you think it is odd that if Maniac scumreads me so strongly he would remain silent while people moved their votes off me, rather than speaking up and reinforcing his "case" on me?

As for Bo_Sox, I don't mean to copy your words but I find him hard to read too. Bo has a history of slipping up as both alignments and he doesn't seem to have done that yet. He also seems very aggressive and even angry at times, for some reason. I like his pressure on Vecna, Maniac, Hamilton etc, but likewise I see your point that he isn't committing to many strong reads. Right now he's a null for me, and I think he's contributing a fair amount and helping the game along, but I'd like to see him solidify some scumreads and start to push them.

[Jamiet99uk]

Jamie's been online and hasn't told me what he thinks of bo.

This is clearly a lie of omission.

Hi, Ghug.

[ghug]

I like kgray's pushing me all night, but the fact that she was happy to kill a townread over a non townread gives me pause, and the relatively low quantity of townreads she has given also gives me pause.

I keep waffling on Jamie.

Bo sucks a lot.

Bo is also probably scum.

I'm liking rd a lot more, though it may just be because he's also annoyed about the HR kill, which is probably easy to fake.

Vecna's extreme hesitance to vote looks bad if darg is scum and probably good otherwise.

Teacon is frustrating town.

[ghug]

@Ghug: What is your read on Maniac now?

I've always found Maniac hard to read, so it's still somewhere in the null zone. There are two things that stick out to me. One, that he's a little more present and understandable than last game, which pushes a little towards scum, but not a lot, since people still aren't liking him and last game's performance warrants an adjustment. Two, that there wasn't a rush of votes onto HR when he was a competing wagon, which either means he's town or several of his teammates were already on him or HR coming into the end of the day. I also dislike that bo wants him dead so much.

What's your read on bo?

I see. Thank you for answering. As a follow-up, what do you think of Maniac's claim that he was around for EoD and just sat silently watching my wagon dissipate, then flipped onto HR at the last moment? Do you think it is odd that if Maniac scumreads me so strongly he would remain silent while people moved their votes off me, rather than speaking up and reinforcing his "case" on me?

As for Bo_Sox, I don't mean to copy your words but I find him hard to read too. Bo has a history of slipping up as both alignments and he doesn't seem to have done that yet. He also seems very aggressive and even angry at times, for some reason. I like his pressure on Vecna, Maniac, Hamilton etc, but likewise I see your point that he isn't committing to many strong reads. Right now he's a null for me, and I think he's contributing a fair amount and helping the game along, but I'd like to see him solidify some scumreads and start to push them.

He did the late phase lingering last game, and I think it kinda fits with his extreme fixation on ties, but it's also a fundamentally scummy tactic.

[ghug]

Oh also Vecna hasn't been doing his catch-up posts.

[Hamilton Brian]

Things we can count on for Day 3? Jamie voting for Maniac and RDR committing to voting for someone that voted for HR.

No reads until after EON.

But Ghug, damn it I keep going back and forth on you. TImes you see town, other times definitely not. You seem to acquit yourself quite well, then fall into a verbal mud puddle. So what's the factor to be looking at?

[Hamilton Brian]

*seem

[ghug]

Things we can count on for Day 3? Jamie voting for Maniac and RDR committing to voting for someone that voted for HR.

No reads until after EON.

But Ghug, damn it I keep going back and forth on you. TImes you see town, other times definitely not. You seem to acquit yourself quite well, then fall into a verbal mud puddle. So what's the factor to be looking at?

When I'm scum, I write
When town, I write, but also
Document my mind

[Jamiet99uk]

Oh also Vecna hasn't been doing his catch-up posts.

Vecna hasn't done much of anything.

50% of the game so far is me, you, and Kgray arguing, and Teacon burbling away making Teacon noises.

[kgray]

Town

Teacon: getting really townie vibes from how interacted with me over the exchange yesterday where he questioned my scumread of him. He seemed to be trying to get me to examine my thought process in a way that makes me think he’s trying to help town sort through the noise, not just defending himself or leading me to a specific conclusion, which is what I’d expect if he were scum. And I doubt he’d be so blatantly role-hunting in the main thread if he were scum.

Hamilton: I don’t always follow Hamilton’s logic but I think he’s posting freely without worrying too much about how he comes off, and I definitely am not getting the feeling that he’s pushing for some narrative.

Rivera: seems genuinely frustrated that we killed HR and I doubt scum would narrow their DK options down to one wagon like that. Overall he just seems like normal town rivera to me.

Jamie: I’m getting pretty strong towny vibes from Jamie’s N2. This is more what I expected from him D1. And although I think the reasons for him voting HR aren’t necessarily good, I think they’re reasons town!Jamie would come up with.

Darg: I don’t like info votes so I wasn’t a fan of his Jamie vote, but given that most of what bugged me EOD can be explained by irl factors I’m going back to my townread of darg. The willingness to throw out theories is townie to me, especially since he’s not using that to push reads.

Macca: I still think scum!Macca was unlikely to try to fake a townslip, but if they don’t start posting and sharing their thoughts then I’ll be suspicious.


Null

Bo: I don’t really have an opinion of bo, and this is probably a problem. I think ghug’s point that bo doesn’t have a lot of reads is pretty valid, and Vecna said something about him fake-hunting, and I could see that.

Bunny: he’s not doing any of the things that I normally find suspicious, so I have no idea what to think of Bunny.

Seth: Still suspicious of his mechanics confusion D1. These long periods of inactivity aren’t helping me sort him, but last game I was suspicious of that and he was town so I think that’s NAI.

Vecna: His catchup posts were typical Vecna style and I haven’t seen anything that I’m really suspicious of except for that HR vote. But he didn’t vote for HR because of the naked vote and he had his own reason for the scumread so I'm not sure it's that scummy.

Damo: Another person I have no opinion on. I’m willing to give him a pass for now because I don’t think it’s scum-indicative of damo to lurk?


Scum

Chaqa: as discussed. He also did the same thing D2 with me and HR that he did with Jamie and Flum D1, saying one of us had to be scum. It just reeks of setting up future miskills.

Maniac: His vote for Jamie because of the town!teacon discussion was so obviously based on a misunderstanding, and he had no interest in reevaluating that read. His comments tonight about how he wanted Jamie dead and that’s why he waited so long to vote for a real wagon are pretty scummy too, as others have pointed out.

Ghug: I have a real problem with his claims that he was trying to save HR and yet when he could have made someone else (Maniac) the leading wagon, he chose not to. It’s like he’s trying to get credit for not being on the HR wagon after he lead the miskill on Vecna last game, but he didn’t actually want HR to survive.

[Jamiet99uk]

No reads until after EON.

No. Post them now.

[Jamiet99uk]

Scum suspects:

Maniac
Dargorygel
Seth

Teacon if Darg is scum

Possibly Rdrivera (yes, despite his role).

==============

Ghug has gone from a townread to a null for me.

I hope Damo, Vecna and Macca participate a lot more in the coming Day. All of these are null for me as of now.

BunnyGo has managed to be the fifth highest poster without registering on me very much at all. I need to work out why that is.

I'm finding it hard to have any strong townreads right now, which is bothering me. I townlean Kgray, possibly Chaqa although he annoys me, possibly Hamilton(!?), possibly even Bo.

[teacon7]

EoN2 reads
today and tomorrow are family days for me. So these are typed quickly. hopefully I get them in before the end of phase :/


town:
teacon7
Flum - is still playing, is confirmed town, let's not forget this.


townlean:
dargorygel - I think he's the FV. FV delivered a banana N1, and crumbed it. I don't think a scum FV behaves this way. ergo darg is town. moreover, my top scumreads attempted to pull a last minute flash wagon on him. there's no way he's scum with if ghug/maniac/kgray are.
kgray - she pushed ghug at night, in the exact way I would have if I'd had time to commit to the game. I don't think scum would pursue a case like this, the way she did, at night. (NOTE: her towniness here is contingent on one of ghug/maniac being scum, as she also was an upper tier leading wagon)

Jamiet99uk - town points for: a) hatred by my scumleans. b) d1 behavior with hammering early. possible I'm caught in great a2e. if that means he drinks less and acts calmer irl, I'm willing to be wrong and lose one (1) game over that.



null due to lurking / inactivity:
Macca573 - is macca going to be replaced?
seth24c - look, maybe this is me, but I can't remember what seth has DONE this game.
damo666 - @damo, we need more from you. You're not the restless spirit, so you cacn actually post. do so please. have you read the thread?
Chaqa - is playing? this doesn't remind me of the chaqa of yore. if he's not lurking, he's not impressed my memory with enough activity to warrant getting out of this category.


net neutrality (some +, some -):
bo_sox48 - had good insights about the way ghug is playing. also tends to be doing what he accuses ghug of doing. Who does bo want lynched? what is bo trying to do this game?

Hamilton Brian - having taken the chronicler role, hamilton is catching up. he pushed me earlier to ... get something out of me. idk. my gut says he's town and doesn't know what to look for.

Vecna - I'm typing quickkly now, having looked at hte clock. I liked a post or two from vec's "catching up" period. don't like his late moves D2



scumlean:

rdrivera2005 - slight scumlean for: with respect and apologies, I still think it's probable that scum picked a PV role for themselves. He's not really acted scummy since d1.

BunnyGo - this is a silly thing, but it seems like he's off his meta. idk how to quantify that. bunny isn't hunting with the creative energies I remember from him in other games. that was applied to misdirection in m52 when we were reavers together. Here? bunny is slightly engaged, but not hunting. What is bunny trying to DO? scumlean for this.

scum:
ghug - seemed to be pushing the hardest end of D2 for darg's elminiation, while darg wasn't around. I have this gut feeling he's buddying people, which is the EXACT thing to do in a game with lots of town liability roles. looked bad/inconsitent in his responses to kgray n2. He has scumreads, but doesn't push them. the schtik with bo looks bad, regardless of either of their alignments.

Maniac - not reading the thread or coming up with his own ideas. not scumhunting. too smooth. i think he's scum with ghug, and ghugh was trying to lead a wagon against some other patsy






agenda:

we need to examine the end of day 2.

I htink there's a scum or two int he pool of people trying to make a flashwagon on darg. At the time I thought HR was one of those people, but after his flip that looks like self defense. same COULD be said of kgray, though she hasn't flipped.

a ghug/maniac team makes a lot of sense here. the way the wagon was being PUSHED looked really suspect. ghug mentioned darg several times, but it didn't "flash" until HR moved to him. SUSPICIOUS.