M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread - HIDDEN

[ghug]

Do we still do EoN reads? You all should do EoN reads.

Boo

[kgray]

Teacon for the same reasons I voted him on D1 and his vote on Flum didn't make me to scumread him less.

Seth vote on Flum is the other I don't feel organic, and I don't get any townie moments from him.

Kgray vote also makes me wonder a bit, but I suppose her feelings about last game could have played a part.

But like I said, the VCA isn't great with a large wagon. Townie points for Bo for tryng to shake things up.

I did not vote for Flum the second time because of the last game.

Do you find it suspicious that rdr doesn’t seem to have an issue with that being (supposedly) the reasoning for your vote?

It depends on how much he really thinks my feelings about last game affected my vote. If he thinks it was the main reason and doesn't take issue with that, then yes.

I'm slightly more concerned that he's giving bo town points for trying to shake things up and complaining about a runaway wagon when he was online 16 minutes before EOD and kept his vote on teacon, who rivera even admits wasn't going to be the kill, even after saying he'd join Jamie - who was a bigger wagon and (from my perspective) seemed much more likely to be the daykill.

[teacon7]

Double-voter

You are the Double Voter. During the game, you have control of a secret vote called ‘The Double Vote’. You can place this vote by PMing the GMs your double vote target. During the final vote count of each day phase, this vote will be applied and listed as ‘The Double Vote’. If you are eliminated, ‘The Double Vote’ dies along with you.

As I read it, it does look like the extra vote can target someone else besides your public vote. So yeah, ghug is right about the mechanics.

##CALLGM - what's the deal here?

That said, why would someone spread out their voting power like that?

Either way, my point remains: whoever you are, please avoid ties. That's all that really needs to be said about it.

[seth24c]

I did not vote for Flum the second time because of the last game.

Do you find it suspicious that rdr doesn’t seem to have an issue with that being (supposedly) the reasoning for your vote?

It depends on how much he really thinks my feelings about last game affected my vote. If he thinks it was the main reason and doesn't take issue with that, then yes.

I'm slightly more concerned that he's giving bo town points for trying to shake things up and complaining about a runaway wagon when he was online 16 minutes before EOD and kept his vote on teacon, who rivera even admits wasn't going to be the kill, even after saying he'd join Jamie - who was a bigger wagon and (from my perspective) seemed much more likely to be the daykill.

I agree completely, that struck me at the time and was one of the things that pushed me away from the Jamie wagon. Rdr can you explain?

[Donny Dude]

Something I haven't seen discussed yet:



The doublevoter is in this pool:
BunnyGo,
Jamiet99uk,
dargorygel,
damo666,
kgray,
seth24c,
Maniac,
teacon7,

I don't know whether we need to find that person or really talk about it, but whomever you are, please work to avoid ties.

This is not necessarily true.

Ghug might be on to something here.

Look carefully at the DoubleVoter description:

"You are the Double Voter. During the game, you have control of a secret vote called ‘The Double Vote’. You can place this vote by PMing the GMs your double vote target. During the final vote count of each day phase, this vote will be applied and listed as ‘The Double Vote’. If you are eliminated, ‘The Double Vote’ dies along with you."

##CALL GM: Does the DoubleVoter double their own vote, or can they use their power to cause another person's vote to be doubled? And, if so, does that work even if the other person is voting for a different suspect?

##call gm
The double vote can go where the player who has that power wants to.

[teacon7]

If it is town it would mean mafia definitely recruited... So we can expect them to be the cheaper roles most likely.

Ahem. What a fair point, increasing the odds that the fruit vendor, public vanilla, or neighborizer are scum. (because chances seem astronomically low that competent mafia players take the gladiator).

If you're town and the doublevoter or the vengeful, you can likely deduce at this point whether or not the mafia recruited.

[ghug]

If it is town it would mean mafia definitely recruited... So we can expect them to be the cheaper roles most likely.

Ahem. What a fair point, increasing the odds that the fruit vendor, public vanilla, or neighborizer are scum. (because chances seem astronomically low that competent mafia players take the gladiator).

If you're town and the doublevoter or the vengeful, you can likely deduce at this point whether or not the mafia recruited.

If there's one thing Bozo's survey proved, it's that there isn't wide agreement on what roles are best to take. I think it's a fairly safe bet that the expensive roles are off the table (though one still could have gone to the recruit), but we shouldn't be making assumptions about the cheap ones.

[bozotheclown]

In conclusion, the majority of responses included some form of town telling, so I think some of these responses include fake town tells. In my opinion, some of the more questionable of these responses were those of seth, Hamilton, ghug, kgray, and bo_sox.

Of these people, you said that me, seth, and Hamilton (and Chaqa, I see you meant to include here) gave incomplete responses. You are calling every "incomplete" response questionable. Yet you also included Flum's response as an example of a known town response, but did not point out that his answer was also incomplete.

You seem to be drawing the conclusion that it is scummy to not give a detailed analysis of the mafia mechanics and their best move. I understand the assumption that scum would try to imply they didn't do this, but it is still unreasonable to expect town to do it. Scumreading people for this reason is pretty flawed, in general and also as proven with Flum's flip.

Most of the responses were incomplete, invalid, or not well thought out, so obviously most of these were town responses. I just pointed out the responses that in my opinion were most likely to have been faked, and since I pointed out 6 responses, most of those are probably town response as well.

[bozotheclown]

If it is town it would mean mafia definitely recruited... So we can expect them to be the cheaper roles most likely.

Ahem. What a fair point, increasing the odds that the fruit vendor, public vanilla, or neighborizer are scum. (because chances seem astronomically low that competent mafia players take the gladiator).

If you're town and the doublevoter or the vengeful, you can likely deduce at this point whether or not the mafia recruited.

If the mafia did not go for the day chat, it significantly increase the number of roles they could have taken.

[BunnyGo]

Hi all. Sorry I really haven’t kept up with the game since EOD. I didn’t have much time in general. But here are some thoughts before EON:

I think Jamie is probably town. I’ve referenced others tells for him.

I think Damo is probably town. I’ve mentioned his “bored” tell before. This seems like engaged!Damo and hence Town!Damo

Kgray is always hard for me to read. I always worry about her. This game is no different.

Macca is probably not capable of the next level town slips done. They’re probably town.

Seth is borderline. Some weird stuff. Some ok stuff. Could go either way.

Teccles is confusing but probably town.

Bo is annoying but this is NAI.

Ghug should keep up with the poetry. Maybe iambic pentameter today?)

If I didn’t mention you, then post more and be better.

[ghug]

In conclusion, the majority of responses included some form of town telling, so I think some of these responses include fake town tells. In my opinion, some of the more questionable of these responses were those of seth, Hamilton, ghug, kgray, and bo_sox.

Of these people, you said that me, seth, and Hamilton (and Chaqa, I see you meant to include here) gave incomplete responses. You are calling every "incomplete" response questionable. Yet you also included Flum's response as an example of a known town response, but did not point out that his answer was also incomplete.

You seem to be drawing the conclusion that it is scummy to not give a detailed analysis of the mafia mechanics and their best move. I understand the assumption that scum would try to imply they didn't do this, but it is still unreasonable to expect town to do it. Scumreading people for this reason is pretty flawed, in general and also as proven with Flum's flip.

Most of the responses were incomplete, invalid, or not well thought out, so obviously most of these were town responses. I just pointed out the responses that in my opinion were most likely to have been faked, and since I pointed out 6 responses, most of those are probably town response as well.

Why are you still ignoring that I answered more thoroughly later?

[ghug]

Of these people, you said that me, seth, and Hamilton (and Chaqa, I see you meant to include here) gave incomplete responses. You are calling every "incomplete" response questionable. Yet you also included Flum's response as an example of a known town response, but did not point out that his answer was also incomplete.

You seem to be drawing the conclusion that it is scummy to not give a detailed analysis of the mafia mechanics and their best move. I understand the assumption that scum would try to imply they didn't do this, but it is still unreasonable to expect town to do it. Scumreading people for this reason is pretty flawed, in general and also as proven with Flum's flip.

Most of the responses were incomplete, invalid, or not well thought out, so obviously most of these were town responses. I just pointed out the responses that in my opinion were most likely to have been faked, and since I pointed out 6 responses, most of those are probably town response as well.

Why are you still ignoring that I answered more thoroughly later?

Actually I went to find it and I can't, so maybe I'm imagining?

[Jamiet99uk]

The double vote can go where the player who has that power wants to.

Ah ok so the "double" voter actually has two independent votes, one of which is cast in secret. Ok.

[ghug]

Hi all. Sorry I really haven’t kept up with the game since EOD. I didn’t have much time in general. But here are some thoughts before EON:

I think Jamie is probably town. I’ve referenced others tells for him.

I think Damo is probably town. I’ve mentioned his “bored” tell before. This seems like engaged!Damo and hence Town!Damo

Kgray is always hard for me to read. I always worry about her. This game is no different.

Macca is probably not capable of the next level town slips done. They’re probably town.

Seth is borderline. Some weird stuff. Some ok stuff. Could go either way.

Teccles is confusing but probably town.

Bo is annoying but this is NAI.

Ghug should keep up with the poetry. Maybe iambic pentameter today?)

If I didn’t mention you, then post more and be better.

I GMed a game in iambic pentameter once. Never again.

[Jamiet99uk]

Teccles is confusing but probably town.

Who?? Teccles??

[ghug]

Still getting scummy vibes from Jamie, bo, darg, damo. Leaning back towards null on teacon now. Don't feel great about kgray.

Macca and Bunny seem townie. Seth to an extent as well. I think HR missing deadline pushes him slightly towards town.

[Jamiet99uk]

My strongest townreads are Ghug and Damo, probably Teacon, maybe also Rdrivera and Macca. I don't have many strong scumreads but if pressed, Maniac and Bunny look rather suspect. Hope I don't die. Good luck if I do.

[Donny Dude]

Night has ended. Please Hold.

[ghug]

Kinda leaning town on bozo too but I have trouble reading him.

[teacon7]

okay so I got called to something (at work), but here are the reads I have:



bunnygo is acting differently than the games I've played or read him in. scumlean.

ghug seemed like he's been buddying people. His ratio of text to content seems higher than I remember for town ghug. I'm also curious - and want to do a re-read on... whether he's been addressing people's character or actions more. scumlean.

scumlean on rivera for reasons I've talked about before.

townlean on kgray for asking good questions.

townlean on bozo for the same reasons.

null on everyone else.


sorry if this is past time. please continue not to post.