M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread - HIDDEN

[ghug]

Why not?

When we're scum together, it always goes poorly, and I strongly dislike him on a personal level.

I could only find 2 games where you were scum with bo_sox, M33 and M58. You won M33 (thanks to Foxcastle) and lost M58. Do you think bo_sox played poorly as mafia in those games?

Yes.

Bo, Durga, and I were daykilled on three consecutive days early in M33, so I wouldn't really ascribe that victory to anyone other than Fox

bo is also a boon to scum when he's town.

[Hamilton Brian]

Does Flum’s role make it more likely Rdriveria is scum?

Tell me more. What's the connection?

I went back to read where this may have been a thing. RDR says," - We agree on the PV role value (after I gave a second thought) to scum to hide usual fearkills.

- I was upset I roled Vanilla when I answered Maniac. Still am, as it's useless and will probably get me daykilled early. But I do use foul language, not so much in English, lol."

I don't see it. Depending on how busy RDR is in their life (and we have to take them at their word), I see their posting as impacted. I'm drawing a rather large null with a small townread on RDR.

@Mania, if there's more clear dots to connect, I am game to read them.

[ghug]

Are there any dissenters to feeling similar to RDR, about VCA around Flum being difficult to generate any information from?

RDR, before I get back into reading previous posts, are there particular reasons for Seth and Teacon being on your scum reads?

Is Bozo out of character for you?

Teacon for the same reasons I voted him on D1 and his vote on Flum didn't make me to scumread him less.

Seth vote on Flum is the other I don't feel organic, and I don't get any townie moments from him.

Kgray vote also makes me wonder a bit, but I suppose her feelings about last game could have played a part.

But like I said, the VCA isn't great with a large wagon. Townie points for Bo for tryng to shake things up.

Except that he didn't really try to shake things up. He only made that vote once Flum was well ahead.

[rdrivera2005]

Does Flum’s role make it more likely Rdriveria is scum?

Tell me more. What's the connection?

I went back to read where this may have been a thing. RDR says," - We agree on the PV role value (after I gave a second thought) to scum to hide usual fearkills.

- I was upset I roled Vanilla when I answered Maniac. Still am, as it's useless and will probably get me daykilled early. But I do use foul language, not so much in English, lol."

I don't see it. Depending on how busy RDR is in their life (and we have to take them at their word), I see their posting as impacted. I'm drawing a rather large null with a small townread on RDR.

@Mania, if there's more clear dots to connect, I am game to read them.

I think Maniac is talking about my role. If it's more likely for scum to choose PV if they didn't choose Restless Spirit?

I can't answer this because I know I am town, so the answer will be biased.

[rdrivera2005]

Are there any dissenters to feeling similar to RDR, about VCA around Flum being difficult to generate any information from?

RDR, before I get back into reading previous posts, are there particular reasons for Seth and Teacon being on your scum reads?

Is Bozo out of character for you?

Teacon for the same reasons I voted him on D1 and his vote on Flum didn't make me to scumread him less.

Seth vote on Flum is the other I don't feel organic, and I don't get any townie moments from him.

Kgray vote also makes me wonder a bit, but I suppose her feelings about last game could have played a part.

But like I said, the VCA isn't great with a large wagon. Townie points for Bo for tryng to shake things up.

Except that he didn't really try to shake things up. He only made that vote once Flum was well ahead.

[ghug]

Teacon for the same reasons I voted him on D1 and his vote on Flum didn't make me to scumread him less.

Seth vote on Flum is the other I don't feel organic, and I don't get any townie moments from him.

Kgray vote also makes me wonder a bit, but I suppose her feelings about last game could have played a part.

But like I said, the VCA isn't great with a large wagon. Townie points for Bo for tryng to shake things up.

Except that he didn't really try to shake things up. He only made that vote once Flum was well ahead.

[rdrivera2005]

Are there any dissenters to feeling similar to RDR, about VCA around Flum being difficult to generate any information from?

RDR, before I get back into reading previous posts, are there particular reasons for Seth and Teacon being on your scum reads?

Is Bozo out of character for you?

Teacon for the same reasons I voted him on D1 and his vote on Flum didn't make me to scumread him less.

Seth vote on Flum is the other I don't feel organic, and I don't get any townie moments from him.

Kgray vote also makes me wonder a bit, but I suppose her feelings about last game could have played a part.

But like I said, the VCA isn't great with a large wagon. Townie points for Bo for tryng to shake things up.

Except that he didn't really try to shake things up. He only made that vote once Flum was well ahead.

I wasn't at EOD but the bot said it was with 3 minutes to go. Enough time to some vote changes.

[bozotheclown]

When I learn Bo_Sox's life routine, I'll get back to you on that front. But if you're suggesting I changed the times I was around because of a daychat, I'm pointing out that you're categorically wrong.

I am not suggesting you changed the times you typically post, but it could be the times bo_sox posted more because he was already talking to you in scum chat.

https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/uaYwzNX3LaS

Just how much co-ordinating do you see in there

There were times where you were having live discussions with bo_sox.

[ghug]

Teacon for the same reasons I voted him on D1 and his vote on Flum didn't make me to scumread him less.

Seth vote on Flum is the other I don't feel organic, and I don't get any townie moments from him.

Kgray vote also makes me wonder a bit, but I suppose her feelings about last game could have played a part.

But like I said, the VCA isn't great with a large wagon. Townie points for Bo for tryng to shake things up.

Except that he didn't really try to shake things up. He only made that vote once Flum was well ahead.

I wasn't at EOD but the bot said it was with 3 minutes to go. Enough time to some vote changes.

The point is that he could have tried harder earlier, but he didn't.

[Hamilton Brian]

I keep going back to the rumblings that Ghug is scum. If I had to read through all of the haiku again I would a) blind myself then b) vote for them to be D2-killed. The suspicious side of me says "all of that posting is puff and just meant to fill the air with nonsense and be distracting."

But then comes the announcements at EOD, asking Flum is they were going to claim THEN and this occurred after the vote but I feel like there were timing issues, mentioning to the crowd that Flum just claimed and to get off the wagon.

A more pro-town action would have been ...?

If ghug were mafia, would they not have been alright to see Flum go?

[bozotheclown]

When we're scum together, it always goes poorly, and I strongly dislike him on a personal level.

I could only find 2 games where you were scum with bo_sox, M33 and M58. You won M33 (thanks to Foxcastle) and lost M58. Do you think bo_sox played poorly as mafia in those games?

Yes.

Bo, Durga, and I were daykilled on three consecutive days early in M33, so I wouldn't really ascribe that victory to anyone other than Fox

bo is also a boon to scum when he's town.

I don't see how you could blame bo_sox for what happened in those 2 games.

[ghug]

I could only find 2 games where you were scum with bo_sox, M33 and M58. You won M33 (thanks to Foxcastle) and lost M58. Do you think bo_sox played poorly as mafia in those games?

Yes.

Bo, Durga, and I were daykilled on three consecutive days early in M33, so I wouldn't really ascribe that victory to anyone other than Fox

bo is also a boon to scum when he's town.

I don't see how you could blame bo_sox for what happened in those 2 games.

I blame me too, but there's little question he was awful and that we were awful together.

[bozotheclown]

Tell me more. What's the connection?

I went back to read where this may have been a thing. RDR says," - We agree on the PV role value (after I gave a second thought) to scum to hide usual fearkills.

- I was upset I roled Vanilla when I answered Maniac. Still am, as it's useless and will probably get me daykilled early. But I do use foul language, not so much in English, lol."

I don't see it. Depending on how busy RDR is in their life (and we have to take them at their word), I see their posting as impacted. I'm drawing a rather large null with a small townread on RDR.

@Mania, if there's more clear dots to connect, I am game to read them.

I think Maniac is talking about my role. If it's more likely for scum to choose PV if they didn't choose Restless Spirit?

I can't answer this because I know I am town, so the answer will be biased.

Not choosing Restless means they are more likely to have recruited and would be looking to take some cheap roles.

[bozotheclown]

Yes.

Bo, Durga, and I were daykilled on three consecutive days early in M33, so I wouldn't really ascribe that victory to anyone other than Fox

bo is also a boon to scum when he's town.

I don't see how you could blame bo_sox for what happened in those 2 games.

I blame me too, but there's little question he was awful and that we were awful together.

OK, but I do not see any reason why you and bo_sox being scum together was an issue in those games.

[Fluminator]

##Vote Dargorygel

[teacon7]

Not choosing Restless means they are more likely to have recruited and would be looking to take some cheap roles.

Not to be a broken record here, but it seems like you'd agree that:
-since the PV is advantageous because it's cheap, and
-since it's likely that the mafia recruited, they'd need $, and
-since the PV is useful for explaining why someone who is normally NK'd isn't NKd,
...it's statistically more likely that the PV is a mafia if they're a player who usually dies early.


@all - Maybe you don't agree with what I'm saying, but let's play a game. What values would you give these variables?

let c = _____ = "how much the PV role helps scum"
let e = _____ = probability that scum chose to recruit
let m(rdrivera) = _____ = probability that the player dies early (either due to fearNK as town, or due to fearDK as scum)

[teacon7]

Thanks Flum. Hope the spirit world is treating you nicely. Actually, i kinda hope you're in an observerQT of some sort and able to rant about our behavior.

[bozotheclown]

Not choosing Restless means they are more likely to have recruited and would be looking to take some cheap roles.

Not to be a broken record here, but it seems like you'd agree that:
-since the PV is advantageous because it's cheap, and
-since it's likely that the mafia recruited, they'd need $, and
-since the PV is useful for explaining why someone who is normally NK'd isn't NKd,
...it's statistically more likely that the PV is a mafia if they're a player who usually dies early.


@all - Maybe you don't agree with what I'm saying, but let's play a game. What values would you give these variables?

let c = _____ = "how much the PV role helps scum"
let e = _____ = probability that scum chose to recruit
let m(rdrivera) = _____ = probability that the player dies early (either due to fearNK as town, or due to fearDK as scum)

I agree the PV is a role the mafia likely considered, and I can see why a player like rdrivera might want it, but I would have chose neighborizer and/or gladiator over PV for 0 cost. I will go with c=0.2, e=0.9, and m=0.5.

[Maniac]

Not choosing Restless means they are more likely to have recruited and would be looking to take some cheap roles.

Not to be a broken record here, but it seems like you'd agree that:
-since the PV is advantageous because it's cheap, and
-since it's likely that the mafia recruited, they'd need $, and
-since the PV is useful for explaining why someone who is normally NK'd isn't NKd,
...it's statistically more likely that the PV is a mafia if they're a player who usually dies early.


@all - Maybe you don't agree with what I'm saying, but let's play a game. What values would you give these variables?

let c = _____ = "how much the PV role helps scum"
let e = _____ = probability that scum chose to recruit
let m(rdrivera) = _____ = probability that the player dies early (either due to fearNK as town, or due to fearDK as scum)

We don't need the numbers. But Rdriveria needs to be town jesus and lead to to a scum lynch D2 or we'll have to kill him D3. Sound harsh, but he is likely to die before end game anyway. If he is scum and we kill him it will emphasize that Mafia have recruited I think.

[dargorygel]

Kouncil Comment
Please be careful!
We don't need the numbers. But Rdriveria needs to be town jesus and lead to to a scum REDACT D2 or we'll have to kill him D3. Sound harsh, but he is likely to die before end game anyway. If he is scum and we kill him it will emphasize that Mafia have recruited I think.