M60 - Duck Season? (Director's Cut) - Game Thread

[Durga]

(Kgray existing putting two back into the POE is cause I thought we were at ten and had to hit today or lose, ftr. Not sure if that was clear.)

You completely eliminated her existence from this game?? Rip kgray. Well, I feel like you guys aren't scum together at least.

[Durga]

His play is such that I'd expect him to be playing scared and quiet as scum. Instead, he's very snarky and is usually actually expressing a thought or asking a genuine question.

Durga's terrified of me, which means she attacks me ruthlessly when she's town and I could be scum, and she avoids me when she's scum.

OK chill I would not use the word terrified smh. Do you think I'm attacking you ruthlessly in this game though?

You were yesterday.

Do you still scumread me?

I mean you were being stupidly irritating, and now you're town reading me, so I think there's a good chance you're scum, because you always town read me when you're scum

Also your nonchalant, I don't care what happens attitude, I'm just trying to make wagons happen is also hella sus. I hate it.

I don't get why you think I'm town just because I'm talking at night. How come you haven't entertained that I might be 3p trying to draw the NK?

[ghug]

OK chill I would not use the word terrified smh. Do you think I'm attacking you ruthlessly in this game though?

You were yesterday.

Do you still scumread me?

I mean you were being stupidly irritating, and now you're town reading me, so I think there's a good chance you're scum, because you always town read me when you're scum

Also your nonchalant, I don't care what happens attitude, I'm just trying to make wagons happen is also hella sus. I hate it.

I don't get why you think I'm town just because I'm talking at night. How come you haven't entertained that I might be 3p trying to draw the NK?

I dared to ask you questions and you flipped out. I've never seen you do that as scum. I townread you when I'm town too.

When have I suggested that I don't care what happens?

I think that you specifically would be less likely to talk at night as scum. Maybe that's less true as 3P, but third parties are stupid and seeking them out is largely pointless.

[bozotheclown]

He said he was going after bozo first

At one point worcej said you had his vote D6, but one of the reasons he gave for suspecting you was that he thought you were signaling me as the traitor.

What is this point supposed to be

The point was I know worcej was wrong about Fluminator trying to signal me.

[bozotheclown]

hmm
k.

You voted for seth D2 because you said his D1 was suspicious, what has changed your read of him?

Why are you tunnelling on Seth so intensely? I don't remember you doing this usually. It's a little annoying, I don't see anything sus about Seth. What's your case on him now?

I am voting for seth because he is my top scum suspect.

I will summarize my case on seth again:

1. seth actively pushed summit counter wagons D1 while barely mentioning summit

2. seth scum read summit for the first time D1 when it was apparent summit was going to be the DK

3. seth suddenly started scum reading BunnyGo when seth and BunnyGo were wagons D2

4. seth has never ended a day voting for a top wagon, D4 and D5 in particular look like he was avoiding being part of a town kill

Why don't you find any of this suspicious?

[bozotheclown]

I still believe we should look closely at D1, since it is not only the one day a scum was the DK, it is the only day we know for sure that a scum was at risk of being DKed.

15 minutes before D1 EOD, summit and Maniac were tied at 8. We now know the next 3 votes for summit were all town (Tom, Chaqa, Vecna), which led to summit's claim. Of the remaining 11 players, 7 were voting for summit when he was tied 8-8 (me, Durga, Fluminator, ghug, HR, kgray, and Moscow/emc), and 4 were not voting for summit at the time of Chaqa's CC (Donny, Maniac, Nanook, seth).

I think HR, kgray, Moscow, and Durga are the least likely to have been bussing summit. Even though I know HR and kgray are both willing to bus, I do not see why they would hard bus summit the majority of D1 even as the damo and Maniac wagons overtook summit. Moscow did remove his initial vote on summit, but he placed his final vote for summit at a critical time near EOD. Also, in M59, when Moscow flipped scum D1, I looked up all of his past scum games to see how likely he was to bus, and I found no cases of significant bussing (although he did place a "joke" vote on Tom D1 of M59). Durga did not vote for summit until he was already ahead by 2 votes, but she kept her vote on summit as damo tied summit and Maniac went ahead of summit by one vote.

Fluminator and ghug were the second and third vote for summit early D1, both votes apparently for summit having his online status hidden. Fluminator and ghug also both moved their vote off of summit 2 different times D1. Both times Fluminator moved his vote off of summit, summit was ahead by one vote, and both times Fluminator did not vote for summit's top counter wagon, so that he left summit tied instead of putting his counter wagon ahead. ghug did the same thing the second time he moved his vote off of summit, the first time summit was ahead by 2 votes.

As I have already gone into in detail, Donny and seth avoided voting for summit and voted for more than 1 of his counter wagons. seth also scum read summit for the first time just as it looked certain summit would be the DK.

Maniac did a few things that could be considered signaling as the traitor: he claimed he did not read his role PM while saying something about figuring things out not knowing who he is, he repeatedly referred to himself as scum, and he said something about meeting his teammate in scum chat. Maniac placed an early vote for Fluminator, which could also be a signal if Fluminator is scum. Maniac also ended the day without a vote, he could have been keeping his options open at EOD.

Nanook seemed generally disinterested D1 but did vote 2 times without voting for summit or summit's top counter wagon at the time of his votes.

The bottom line is I would not rules out Donny, seth, and Nanook, with Maniac as the traitor. However, chances are someone bussed summit D1, and Fluminator and ghug are the most likely bussers.

Anyone could be blending in as the 3P.

Looking at other days:

D2: 10 different players voted for seth at some point D2, only 6 are left. 3 different players voted for Donny at some point D2, and I am the only one left. TrPrado and BunnyGo were the only other significant wagons D2. Donny did vote for seth D2. However, in Donny's other scum game here (M56), Donny bussed Chaqa D1.

D3: Fluminator seemed to suspect BunnyGo was 3P instead of mafia, Nanook briefly voted for seth after BunnyGo claimed 9lives.

D4: town vs. town at Tom's shooting deadline, town vs. town at EOD, Nanook and seth were the only other significant wagons.

D5: My guess is it was town vs. town also.

Besides seth's suspicious D1, seth ended D2 on BunnyGo as TrPrado got DKed, did not vote D3, ended D4 on flash as Vecna got DKed, and ended D5 on Moscow as flash got DKed. seth is the only player left who has never ended a day on the top wagon, even if you do not count D1 and D3.

##VOTE seth

bozo, I remember you being very anti scumclaim in the past, to the point of tunneling me for days despite my repeatedly being the counterwagon to dead scum. Given that there's actually cause for scum to do this in this game (as you outline here), why have you not been more rabidly antiManiac?

I was voting for Maniac most of D1, initially for the claim about not reading his role PM, then also for the other things that could be signaling. I believe summit making a PR claim when Maniac was his only counter wagon made it very unlike Maniac is on the primary scum team, but I have always considered Maniac a traitor candidate. The main argument against Maniac as traitor is that his D1 seems too obvious.

[ghug]

Hi Maniac

[Maniac]

Hi Maniac

Hello. Are we voting for nanook today? I can’t remember what we said last night and since we don’t have daytime chat yet, I thought I’d ask here. Hope that’s OK?

##vote Nanook

[ghug]

Hi Maniac

Hello. Are we voting for nanook today? I can’t remember what we said last night and since we don’t have daytime chat yet, I thought I’d ask here. Hope that’s OK?

##vote Nanook

This schtick works better when you're not otherwise being completely useless.

[kgray]

So that’s a POE of like

Donny/maniac/Seth/EMC*/flum*


*remembering kgray exists means I can put these two back in POE lol

I’m probably TRing kgray and HR for stupid/bad reasons, but meh


This is purely a mafia POE I have no idea where 3p is

And what are those reasons for townreading HR and me?

[kgray]

(Kgray existing putting two back into the POE is cause I thought we were at ten and had to hit today or lose, ftr. Not sure if that was clear.)

How does 3p mess with endgame numbers? Are they considered town in terms of mafia needing to have the majority? And with items/jailer, it's not a normal mylo/kilo is it?

[kgray]

No, I did not.

Just because you were so confident flash was scum?

Yeah, overconfidence.

What made you so confident that flash was scum?

[kgray]

Just because you were so confident flash was scum?

Yeah, overconfidence.

I wasn’t sure myself. I left not knowing what would happen. Bozo and maniac jumping on like they did doesn’t leave a good taste in my mouth though.

What bothers you about how they jumped on the wagon?

[kgray]

Fluminator and ghug were the second and third vote for summit early D1, both votes apparently for summit having his online status hidden. Fluminator and ghug also both moved their vote off of summit 2 different times D1. Both times Fluminator moved his vote off of summit, summit was ahead by one vote, and both times Fluminator did not vote for summit's top counter wagon, so that he left summit tied instead of putting his counter wagon ahead. ghug did the same thing the second time he moved his vote off of summit, the first time summit was ahead by 2 votes.
---
The bottom line is I would not rules out Donny, seth, and Nanook, with Maniac as the traitor. However, chances are someone bussed summit D1, and Fluminator and ghug are the most likely bussers.

It seems like you're saying ghug and Flum are the most likely D1 bussers for similar reasons, but their initial votes for summit were pretty different. Flum did encourage the summit wagon for the joke reason that his status was invisible, but he followed up with a legitimate reason based on summit's reaction. Other people may or may not have figured out that summit was playing his scum meta, so Flum pointing out his awkwardness and making his vote for summit legitimate seems less likely to come from summit's teammate than ghug's joining Flum on summit as a joke vote.

[kgray]

How do you read flum now?

He's not my strongest townread and I'm a bit suspicious because of general paranoia, but I don't scumread him nearly enough to vote for him at this point.

Why do you feel like flum is town?

Just because I don't see any particular reason to scumread him.

[kgray]

I currently think maniac is our best chance to hit scum. ##vote maniac

I just... Scum v scum d1? I don't know about this but maybe I'm just not seeing what I should be seeing because his posts are pure garbage otherwise

Why not scum v scum? Especially if Maniac is the traitor, but even if he's not the Maniac wagon could have been town-driven. The people who were pushing that wagon near the EOD were: Bunny, damo, Donny, Nanook, Rivera, seth, summit, Tom and Prado.

@Durga you seemed to be good with killing flash for not being helpful. Why are you more reluctant to vote Maniac?

[kgray]

Does scum maniac make that giant post about not being traitor eon1?

If he's the traitor and he thinks he was very likely to have been recruited, why not?

[Donny Dude]

Just because you were so confident flash was scum?

Yeah, overconfidence.

What made you so confident that flash was scum?

It is somewhat looking back on it that made me realize I had not considered other options other than flash on d5. Flash to me was not being super solvy with the lurking and his posts plus bozo's case.

[kgray]

Hi Maniac

Hello. Are we voting for nanook today? I can’t remember what we said last night and since we don’t have daytime chat yet, I thought I’d ask here. Hope that’s OK?

##vote Nanook

This schtick works better when you're not otherwise being completely useless.

Great, can we kill him now? I think he's so much more likely to be scum than Moscow/emc.

[Donny Dude]

Hi Maniac

Hello. Are we voting for nanook today? I can’t remember what we said last night and since we don’t have daytime chat yet, I thought I’d ask here. Hope that’s OK?

##vote Nanook

K, Maniac.
Why did you in your first post ask Ghug and me about who to pick from your scumreads?
Do you have any other scumreads?