M60 - Duck Season? (Director's Cut) - Game Thread

[seth24c]

I don’t get you guys. Me and summit have an interaction that makes us clearly never teamed and your response is “meh fuck you.” Seth has the most limp noodle nothing response to tom claiming he shot him and your response is “OH MY GOD HES OBVTOWN NOW.”

How did that interaction make you “never teamed”? I don’t read it that way.

+ I'm not a fan of harping on the same thing over and over to assert your townieness. Just keep playing the game and it should become self evident if you are

I have to wonder if that’s why nanook is so hesitant to actually play the game.

[Durga]

guyz and galz lets flip the counterwagon to damo.
lots of juicy info will be obtained

Is there a joke I'm missing :p

no I do occasionally seriouspost.

Maybe you meant to say flash

[kgray]

Yeah me either. Tons of people seemed to have an issue with this post but I don’t see how as I was just making an observation of what I saw if summit did happen to flip town.

What did summit do that seemed scummy to you? Why didn't you mention those things when you found them? Why would summit being town have made you more convinced Maniac was scum?

Throughout the day summit had been a wagon so I expected him to come in and make a defense at some point. The fact that he never did all through the day and just allowed himself to be flipped without putting up a defense was scummy to me. I don’t know meta well so that wasnt a factor for me. But maniac never put up much defense either so I felt strongly that one of them at least was scum and that if summit wasn’t that maniac was extremely likely to be.

I disagree that town is more likely to put up a defense than scum. But okay, thanks.

[seth24c]

I don’t get you guys. Me and summit have an interaction that makes us clearly never teamed and your response is “meh fuck you.” Seth has the most limp noodle nothing response to tom claiming he shot him and your response is “OH MY GOD HES OBVTOWN NOW.”

How did that interaction make you “never teamed”? I don’t read it that way.

Especially if he's the traitor.
It's quite weak reasoning, but the way he gave it is slightly town. And the fact he forgot about the traitor might be a genuine townslip? (maybe not)

The way he posted when he said he forgot about the traitor was also suspect to me. Trying not to tumble here but the “I uh oh forgot about the lost wolf” didn’t strike me as a town slip at all. But maybe it’s just his way of posting *shrug emoji*

[seth24c]

What did summit do that seemed scummy to you? Why didn't you mention those things when you found them? Why would summit being town have made you more convinced Maniac was scum?

Throughout the day summit had been a wagon so I expected him to come in and make a defense at some point. The fact that he never did all through the day and just allowed himself to be flipped without putting up a defense was scummy to me. I don’t know meta well so that wasnt a factor for me. But maniac never put up much defense either so I felt strongly that one of them at least was scum and that if summit wasn’t that maniac was extremely likely to be.

I disagree that town is more likely to put up a defense than scum. But okay, thanks.

You think scum is more likely to put up a defense?

[Tom Bombadil]

Aiight.

##vote bozo.

I need to eat dinner and then spend some time trying to unwind this because I’ve sucked so far.

I don't like this vote Tom. You really think bozo is the scummiest person here? Can you do your ghug case at some point please? I get that you're busy so even just a few bullet points would be fine.

Sorry. I am busier than expected.

I do not think bozo is the scummiest person here, no. I do think he has a good chance of being scum though.

Bullet points on ghug

I think he spent most of D1 subtly encouraging counter wagons to summit. Look at the vote history. A lot of this was under the guise of “making things interesting.” I do expect ghug to this as town to tbh, as he very much values close wagons at eod for information. But I didn’t love how he did it this game. He kicked the tires on many wagons - and at one point said something along the lines of “ive gotta go for a few hours, Tom, Flum make this interesting”. He wanted someone else to do the heavy lifting to potentially be the most suspicious if there was a town miskill that protected summit.

He did vote summit with 24 minutes left at a pivotal point. However, I do think he is the most likely busser here because of the wagons. Ghug has a high opinion of Maniac so he would need a good excuse to vote him D1 and that was the eod counter wagon to summit. He even questioned me saying something like “Maniac isn’t good enough to be in your do not kill D1 list?” He also could not avoid the lead wagons because of his strong known belief in how important it is for everyone to be on the main wagons late. I think he could have been cornered into bussing.

I think past that day, he kicks the tires on multiple wagons and for someone who says they are good at driving wagons he doesn’t do much of it. His most aggressive questioning has tended to come against people who aren’t really in danger (Durga, Vecna etc). He seems to be distancing himself from flips which is unlike him.

Very small thought I’m my mind also is how he engaged me on Alice In Chains - which I think may have been him probing to see if I was traitor and trying to give me an avenue to signal. This is likely nothing but it did strike me as a little awkward.

Finally, considering the flips I do think bussing was happening D1. I’ve explained why I don’t think you would throw summit onto the tracks. I townread HR. I townread Flum. That leaves flash, bozo, Durga and ghug as the most likely bussers. For reasons above I think ghug could have been forced into it.

[kgray]

Throughout the day summit had been a wagon so I expected him to come in and make a defense at some point. The fact that he never did all through the day and just allowed himself to be flipped without putting up a defense was scummy to me. I don’t know meta well so that wasnt a factor for me. But maniac never put up much defense either so I felt strongly that one of them at least was scum and that if summit wasn’t that maniac was extremely likely to be.

I disagree that town is more likely to put up a defense than scum. But okay, thanks.

You think scum is more likely to put up a defense?

I guess it depends on what you mean by defense. Being defensive is generally scum indicative, I think. Putting in effort to not get killed is NAI. Putting in effort to solve is generally town indicative.

But it depends on who the person is. Summit not putting in any effort at all was definitely scum indicative. I don't know if that's the case with Maniac.

[Fluminator]

A reason I'm a little suspicious of ghug right now is he's largely townread

[Fluminator]

I was suspicious when ghug voted Nanook after Nanook said he can't be daykilled. (I thought it was an obvious crumb for Roadrunner) and then ghug voted for him not long after anyway.
He does like PR fishing.

But he basically carried the conversation day 2 and it didn't seem as manipulative as it was getting people to talk.

[worcej]

At work, not at PC.

Will catch up.

[seth24c]

This is seth's first mention of damo D1:

Yeah I feel like he really didn't care in the mini game as scum, and I'm not seeing any caring here.

Lots of people talking but nobody voting. ##vote damo

seth's post was proceeded by these:

So, comparisons to last game:

A) Tom is back to his normal natural self, so unless he's vastly improved his scumgame he's almost certainly town.

B) Damo has done a complete 180, is barely present, not giving off his town vibes, and is strongly reminiscent of the mini-mafia where he was scum.

C) Summit's also reverted to type.

Down with ##vote summit wagon atm, would be sympathetic to a damo wagon too.

Damo has been extremely underwhelming today so far.

Damo has been extremely underwhelming today so far.

Also this. Total 180 from the previous few games

Also this. Total 180 from the previous few games

Yeah I feel like he really didn't care in the mini game as scum, and I'm not seeing any caring here.

The last 3 were within 20 minutes before seth's post, so seth knew he had a chance of getting a wagon going on damo, and Fluminator, ghug, and Durga did all vote for damo to put damo ahead of summit 4-3.

seth did not say anything else about damo until summit had retaken the lead, when he posted this:

I don't love this at all.

Have to agree. Still not seeing much from damo that has changed my read, it has solidified it to a certain degree. Also the similar posts from Tom and Moscow that both discussed how they preferred other options caught my eye.

Not long after damo dropped down to only 2 votes to summit's 7 votes, and Maniac had 3 votes, seth posted this:

I didn't like the way he defended Chaqa, it looks like buddying and I didn't like him joke claiming scum.

He also did some pretty heavy hi’ing in the beginning of the game. I forgot how much until reading him again. Feeling a little better about damo so making maniac a bigger wagon works for me. ##vote maniac

7 minutes before EOD, when summit was leading Maniac 11-7, seth posted this:

Perfectly happy to see summit flip because he has seemed scummy to me as well. But if he isn’t scum maniac is public enemy number 1 imo.

Summary:
1. seth started a damo wagon because he knew others would vote for damo, despite not giving any reasons why he scum read damo.
2. seth pushed the damo wagon while it was the top counter wagon to summit.
3. When damo was no longer a viable wagon, seth stopped scum reading damo for unexplained reasons and voted for Maniac 5 minutes after Maniac had more votes than damo.
4. seth never mentioned his read of summit while voting for summit's top counter wagons, but just before summit was about to flip scum, seth scum read him for the first time.

1. People had been casting suspicion on damo but not voting for him. I was also suspicious and wanted to generate information by seeing who else actually voted for damo and who stayed off. This is actually something I need to look at now that damo has flipped town.
2. Damo had still been acting suspicious so he still deserved my vote.
3. The damo wagon dissolved because he came in and started making and effort that relieved suspicion on him.
4. I thought I had an extremely solid case on maniac when I read the bot and overlooked some vital information.
4a. I had been expecting summit to come in a make a case for himself and do something if he was town. The fact that he never did made me think he probably was scum so I was happy to see his flip. If he flipped town I figured that maniac had probably been saved by scum.

[worcej]

Although Moscow is right Seth’s reaction to Tom shouldn’t clear him

Agreed here - there are few instances where a caught scum just openly raised their hands and surrendered.

[seth24c]

I disagree that town is more likely to put up a defense than scum. But okay, thanks.

You think scum is more likely to put up a defense?

I guess it depends on what you mean by defense. Being defensive is generally scum indicative, I think. Putting in effort to not get killed is NAI. Putting in effort to solve is generally town indicative.

But it depends on who the person is. Summit not putting in any effort at all was definitely scum indicative. I don't know if that's the case with Maniac.

Yeah I guess my definition was to not be killed. I feel like as scum trying to put in effort to not be killed could draw attention to who you partners are so scum might be less likely to defend themselves than town.

[seth24c]

I was suspicious when ghug voted Nanook after Nanook said he can't be daykilled. (I thought it was an obvious crumb for Roadrunner) and then ghug voted for him not long after anyway.
He does like PR fishing.

But he basically carried the conversation day 2 and it didn't seem as manipulative as it was getting people to talk.

Since the roadrunner has now been flipped does this make you suspicious of nanook? Why would the roadrunner crumb anyways?

[seth24c]

Although Moscow is right Seth’s reaction to Tom shouldn’t clear him

Agreed here - there are few instances where a caught scum just openly raised their hands and surrendered.

Not sure what reaction that was supposed to get anyways. That seemed like a pointless thing to do.

[worcej]

Why haven't people moved off damo yet?

##VOTE worcej

Not liking the vanity wagon on D1. Seems like he is way too cool this game...

I wish I was being too cool for this game sometimes.

In all seriousness - what do you mean by too cool? Like, show me some examples or explain it better.

[worcej]

Although Moscow is right Seth’s reaction to Tom shouldn’t clear him

Agreed here - there are few instances where a caught scum just openly raised their hands and surrendered.

Not sure what reaction that was supposed to get anyways. That seemed like a pointless thing to do.

In my conspiracy theory mind, Tom and you could be scum and that was a soft to clear you.

However, the only way I think this is plausible is if the day chat mode for scum is enabled.

[Tom Bombadil]

Agreed here - there are few instances where a caught scum just openly raised their hands and surrendered.

Not sure what reaction that was supposed to get anyways. That seemed like a pointless thing to do.

In my conspiracy theory mind, Tom and you could be scum and that was a soft to clear you.

However, the only way I think this is plausible is if the day chat mode for scum is enabled.

The fact this crosses worcejs mind seems towny

[seth24c]

Agreed here - there are few instances where a caught scum just openly raised their hands and surrendered.

Not sure what reaction that was supposed to get anyways. That seemed like a pointless thing to do.

In my conspiracy theory mind, Tom and you could be scum and that was a soft to clear you.

However, the only way I think this is plausible is if the day chat mode for scum is enabled.

Definitely quite a theory, seems just as pointless in that theory as it was to do if Tom is town.

[worcej]

Could Tom be 3P?

What is even the point of saying this? Could you be 3p? Could bozo? Could ghug?

Sure. Anyone could be 3p.

Is there anything specific about Tom that makes you think he's the 3p?

Seriously? Do you want me to post or not?

I am questioning whether that misdirection with the gun could have also been 3P indicative by potentially helping to find out the role of seth too.

This last point seem pretty poor - how would threatening a person with a shot be smart as the 3P?