M60 - Duck Season? (Director's Cut) - Game Thread

[Hellenic Riot]

Like, the fact youre not seeing and sensing that speaks volumes in itself. But sure, im the dodgy one.

I'm not? If you go back to my EoN reads list as long ago as two nights you'll see that any townread I had on her has long been receding.

The fact of the matter is that you've gone into a lot of detail about why Damo and I might be scum and yet you put Durga as at least as strong a scumread as the pair of us without ever giving any explanation whatsoever for it, and now that I'm pressuring you on it you're choking like you have a mouthful of octopi

Its not like im completely certain of my scumread of the two of you, individually. But if you really wanna argue that im not being very capable of making arguments why Durga is exactly just as scummy as you or Damo......fine. Its arbitrary grouping, and not exact science. Who wouldve thought that such a thing is possible. I still felt the 4 of you were scummier than the people in the lower tiers though.

Now if thats really the type of points youre trying to score, youre not realy trying to sort shit, and Durga is actually right that its a waste of space argument.

No - I'm asking you a very straightforward question. You've explained why you think Damo is scum. You've explained why you think I'm scum. You have not explained why you think Durga is scum. And the more you try and muddy the waters around this, the longer you go without answering the question.

[kgray]

You guys think MF bussed D1? Granted if maniac is scum, this point is moot - but my townread on Moscow is based pretty strongly on his critical role in killing summit D1

I think it's eminently plausible that Moscow felt that summit was not going to be able to save himself in the closing stages - Don't forget that Maniac hadn't voted Summit at the time when Moscow made it 8-8 (not that he ever did vote him). Moscow had also left the Summit wagon when it first took the lead, and joined both the Damo & the Nanook counter-wagons before he eventually got back to it.

If you think scum!Moscow was looking for a way off of summit, then surely he would have voted for Maniac though? Unless Maniac is also scum, and I think that's what Tom is saying.

[Vecna]

I take issue with putting me on the same level of lurking as flash

Youre at the same level of being unreadable to me.

That's a you problem

Now youre just reasoning the same way as nanook

[seth24c]

Why would defending you be town indicative?

Why has interest in daykilling you evaporated?

It could be town indicative because I know my alignment. I’ve been an easy wagon to push and scum would have been happy with any of the day 2 wagons, the only reason to defend any of them as scum is to gain town cred. Which I don’t think vecna as scum would need to stick his neck out to get more towncred from defending me but I may be wrong. I think interest in my wagon has disappeared for two reasons. First that it isn’t quite as easy to push now. And second and more importantly, my flip would show that all the day two wagons were town, so scum no longer has incentive to push me, they would rather leave that doubt out there and try to get a different miskil that wouldn’t help so much with the VCA.

Do you see a benefit to scum defending you if you're a likely miskill?

Yes of course, I’ve mentioned that in other posts. There is also benefit to scum to spread themselves across the three wagons so I’m sure there was also scum pushing my wagon.

[Durga]

How the fuck do you have the sixth most posts in this game?

See the only reason I'm even considered a lurker rn is because I'm held to high standards.

No it also just feels in my bones like you haven't done anything useful.

Is this you scum reading me? Or just trying to piss me off? Being rude to me is scummy

[Hellenic Riot]

You guys think MF bussed D1? Granted if maniac is scum, this point is moot - but my townread on Moscow is based pretty strongly on his critical role in killing summit D1

I think it's eminently plausible that Moscow felt that summit was not going to be able to save himself in the closing stages - Don't forget that Maniac hadn't voted Summit at the time when Moscow made it 8-8 (not that he ever did vote him). Moscow had also left the Summit wagon when it first took the lead, and joined both the Damo & the Nanook counter-wagons before he eventually got back to it.

If you think scum!Moscow was looking for a way off of summit, then surely he would have voted for Maniac though? Unless Maniac is also scum, and I think that's what Tom is saying.

Possibly, but that's what the first part of my vote is about - Maybe Moscow didn't think that him voting Maniac would make a difference in saving Summit. Multiple counter-wagons had already formed and failed to dislodge Summit, what's to say the Maniac one would be any different? It's certainly viable that it got to the point where he gave up and wrote Summit off.

[ghug]

Seth hasn't been any more scummy than loads of other players, so I am confused why there's such a big push against him this whole game.

His voting D1 was pretty bad, mostly, and he seemed way more towny when he was town.

[Tom Bombadil]

You guys think MF bussed D1? Granted if maniac is scum, this point is moot - but my townread on Moscow is based pretty strongly on his critical role in killing summit D1

Are you townreading anyone with a critical role in killing summit or is that specific to Moscow because you think he wouldn't bus?

I don’t have a view or whether or not he would bus. It’s based on the timing of his vote - that would be a strange time to bus. He could have either a) found a reason to vote maniac or b) waiting a bit longer to get more clarity on how the day was likely to end before potentially bussing. I don’t see a bus at that point likely.

I don’t buy HRs argument either about MF thinking summit couldn’t be saved. I understand it’s plausaible, but I think scum would not give up like that with 15 minutes left in the day. MF is an ideal deep threat though, so there is some merit.

I also find his reaction to Chaqa’s claim quite towny - I don’t see scum Moscow posting “Let’s gooooooo” immediately after Chaqa’s cc, and then arguing with you about it

[Donny Dude]

What do you mean by "looking for a wagon" though? I did scumread all three of them and thought they were all good options. Bunny was my first choice until he claimed. My next choice was seth, but Chaqa wanted Prado and I sheeped him.

I don't get what you think is scummy about it? Why would scum be more likely to change their vote around like that than town?

I don't make too much out of the fact that 2 of the 3 wagons were town. They did scummy things D1, so I understood the pushes on them. It's possible that scum helped push them, but it's also entirely possible they sat back and watched.

Alright, that's fair.

Why are you backing down so fast? You can't answer the questions?

No, but to answer your first question is that it looked at the time I looked at it that it did not matter and that you wanted an elim.
I looked at it today and realized that you had all three as sr in your iso that day.
I had missed that before which means that whatever I said d3 on my read on your eod on d2 was not made with full info in mind.

[ghug]

HR and Vecna are good enough players that I doubt they'd get into a useless T v. T. Maybe one of them is scum. Ugggh

Have you met either of them?

I feel like HR's onto something, but it's entirely plausible that they'd both do this as town.

[Fluminator]

I do feel like Summit was scummy enough that voting him is null.
With Prado, Bunny, Chaqa, and Rdrivera all being town, it's almost certain at this point that Summit was bussed.

Players at this point who weren't reasonably influential in the summit kill are
Maniac (counterwagon)
Seth
Donny
Worcej
Damo
Vecna

So unless all our scum is in there, summit was bussed

[Fluminator]

And out of the summit voters before his death was a foregone conclusion, Moscow is definitely one of the weaker Summit voters.

[ghug]

See the only reason I'm even considered a lurker rn is because I'm held to high standards.

No it also just feels in my bones like you haven't done anything useful.

Is this you scum reading me? Or just trying to piss me off? Being rude to me is scummy

Just an assessment of the situation.

I believe your excuses and you hate bussing, so I'm giving you time to correct.

[Fluminator]

Oops, forgot Nanook in that list.
He could be scum. I was townreading him because I thought he softed roadrunner but that was wrong lol.

[kgray]

You guys think MF bussed D1? Granted if maniac is scum, this point is moot - but my townread on Moscow is based pretty strongly on his critical role in killing summit D1

Are you townreading anyone with a critical role in killing summit or is that specific to Moscow because you think he wouldn't bus?

I don’t have a view or whether or not he would bus. It’s based on the timing of his vote - that would be a strange time to bus. He could have either a) found a reason to vote maniac or b) waiting a bit longer to get more clarity on how the day was likely to end before potentially bussing. I don’t see a bus at that point likely.

I don’t buy HRs argument either about MF thinking summit couldn’t be saved. I understand it’s plausaible, but I think scum would not give up like that with 15 minutes left in the day. MF is an ideal deep threat though, so there is some merit.

I also find his reaction to Chaqa’s claim quite towny - I don’t see scum Moscow posting “Let’s gooooooo” immediately after Chaqa’s cc, and then arguing with you about it

Okay, those are good points. Especially the one about Chaqa's cc.

Also, I think this defense of Moscow is really towny for Tom. If Moscow is town, then there's no reason for scum!Tom to go out of his way to discourage the suspicion that's starting there. If Moscow is scum, then Moscow isn't yet getting nearly enough pressure for scum!Tom to step in.

[Tom Bombadil]

Damo is the most suspicious looking at D1 as he quickly jumped off the summit wagon to vote Maniac when the flash push on manic happened

[Fluminator]

I also find his reaction to Chaqa’s claim quite towny - I don’t see scum Moscow posting “Let’s gooooooo” immediately after Chaqa’s cc, and then arguing with you about it

I bet scum were quite happy Chaqa needlessly counterclaimed lol

[Tom Bombadil]

If maniac is scum, then a lot of these thoughts are moot

[Durga]

No it also just feels in my bones like you haven't done anything useful.

Is this you scum reading me? Or just trying to piss me off? Being rude to me is scummy

Just an assessment of the situation.

I believe your excuses and you hate bussing, so I'm giving you time to correct.

Correct what?? Your bones? I think it's kinda bs for you and Vecna to claim I haven't done anything AI just because I wasn't online much of D2.

[Tom Bombadil]

I also find his reaction to Chaqa’s claim quite towny - I don’t see scum Moscow posting “Let’s gooooooo” immediately after Chaqa’s cc, and then arguing with you about it

I bet scum were quite happy Chaqa needlessly counterclaimed lol

Exactly - which is why I think they’d be uncomfortable verbalizing it