M1015 - Super Mafioso Bros

[rdrivera2005]

I looked into the discussion of Vecna's BP claim, and it seems like kgray, summit, and rdrivera were all aware of the claim fairly early. kgray was questioning players for not seeing the claim, rdrivera called it obvious without the link, and summit was the first to directly state Vecna had claimed. Jamie and HR said they missed the claim because they do not open links, bo_sox said he thought it was easy to miss, HB missed the claim, and I am not sure if Macca is aware of the claim. I also missed the claim because I typically do not open links, and I had read Vecna's post about getting something from the mods without thinking the link was going to be something important, I think it just sounded like a joke. With the mafia day chat, if one scum saw the claim they all would know, and the mafia also knew they had hit Vecna, so they would be looking for Vecna to claim, so I think this supports the possibility of a kgray/summit/rdrivera scum team.

Why scum would be looking for Vecna to claim as they already knew he is BP? Also, don't you believe scum is more likely to avoid looking like they already know Vecna is BP? At least one?

Okay rivera, now you can be my spokesperson.

Do you think Bozo twisting things and making this bullshit assumptions are scum indicative or town indicative? I keep flip flopping on this. And the opportunistic Bo's entrance make wonder if Bo and HR isn't a thing.

[bo_sox48]

Bozo, you don’t have me entirely convinced but I just want to say you really should have led with the investigative track you’re on now as opposed to whatever it was you were doing earlier. You’re asking much better questions.

I am convinced on rdrivera and could vote him today over HB.

You are convinced that I am scum with summit and Kgray? Did you really bought that Bozo convoluted thinking?

Or if you have an own reason to scumread me state it.

I scumread most people that intentionally vote after the deadline, and I've been pretty ready to scumread you throughout most of this game. I don't have some grandiose case if that's what you're looking for. Bozo's analysis of you, summit, and kgray isn't totally crazy; it certainly isn't half as convoluted as what he was trying to pull off with HR earlier. The thing I don't get about bozo's analysis is why he doesn't connect you and HB. It's pretty hard for me not to connect you two.

[Hellenic Riot]

I've made my suspicions of Bozo very clear today. Aren't you reading my posts?

I am, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but the two main reasons you gave are his inactivity prior to today, which I agree is scummy from bozo, and his focus on "odd interactions" between you and HB. I do agree with him that if HB is scum he could implicate you through no fault of your own, but I also think most of HB's interactions can be characterized as odd so I see your point.

But I wanted to discuss bozo further because although D3 so far is more along the lines of what I was expecting from town!bozo, I can't get over the fact that he spent all of D2 talking about BP and mafia kills. At EOD he was online and brought up the same argument he'd been having with HR the whole phase but otherwise didn't contribute at all. Now he's going carefully through everyone else's votes and it's sort of convenient that we can't do the same with his. I'm trying to decide if this is alignment indicative.

Those are my main reasons, yes. The points you make are valid too.

I am also concerned that Bozo is proposing a lot of speculative scum pairings implicating the majority of the remaining players in his "x could be scum with y" manner, but without clearly calling out his top scumreads or pushing anyone really hard.

Is he really any worse with this than the way rdrivera has tried to shoehorn half the players in this game into being a team with me at some point?

[Hellenic Riot]

I would add that if HR is really scum I think Macca is also scum. Him disappearing when he got some pressure and coming back after EOD claiming Internet problems is something that could have been suggested on QT and HR reaction to Summit vote on Macca would be justified.

##vote HR

Since we're done voting based on post count, where are rdrivera and summit?

I had a busy day at work and a great night playing tennis now that the club is finally open (it was closed since April cause the pandemic).

But I read all the 3 pages of hard activities you produced. Weird that Jamiet didn't notice Vecna's obvious soft claim even without looking the YouTube link, but why scum Jamiet would fake this? Can't see him trying to gain town cred with a think like this.

I don't like HB today. This "I am lost, what should we do" scene is hard to believe after him playing pretty well last full game. Could HR push on him be a theater/buss? If this is true there is a deep covered scum and I wrong about Macca. Stiil less likely I think, but something to consider.

I will vote between Summit and HB today.

Which is your preference currently?

I think HB. But summit voting HR really annoys me. They could be scum together? HB vote seems to indicate not.

Because he tied the vote. After Vecna (our only townclear) voted vor HB I can't see a reason a townie would change his vote and risk a tie. And summit wasn't voting to save himself, he saved HB.

Do you think HB could have been bussing summit, yet summit moved at EOD to protect HB?

I think it's possible. But I also totally can see an HR and Bo team here. I need to sleep, I am just entering paranoia mode.

Feeling pretty good about damo and jamie. macca not so much.

##vote macca

This post probably means Jamie is town if summit is mafia. That would mean kgray/summit/rdrivera is the most likely scum team if kgray changed her mind about voting for summit D2 because they are both mafia.

I can see a team with Kgray and Summit (and maybe Jamiet or even HB) and I can also see HR and Bo in a scum team together. I can also see you and HB being scum together. But I think we need to try to find one scum first before the whole team.

Just some of the many teams rdrivera has managed to see so far this game

[bozotheclown]

Feeling pretty good about damo and jamie. macca not so much.

##vote macca

This post probably means Jamie is town if summit is mafia. That would mean kgray/summit/rdrivera is the most likely scum team if kgray changed her mind about voting for summit D2 because they are both mafia.

I can see a team with Kgray and Summit (and maybe Jamiet or even HB) and I can also see HR and Bo in a scum team together. I can also see you and HB being scum together. But I think we need to try to find one scum first before the whole team.

We only have 1 mis-kill left, so if we mis-kill today, we will have to find all 3 scum consecutively to win. Identifying the first scum is hard, because we do not have any know connections to scum to work with. However, that doesn't mean we should not try.

D2, when you thought EOD was an hour earlier, you said:

Don't think we can change the result now. If HR isn't scum we lose.

Vecna is dying too. Last words?

You seemed to think that a mis-kill would be a sure defeat.

If you think that "we need to try to find one scum first", why should we not look for possible connections to identify that one scum?

[bozotheclown]

The kgray/summit scum theory would mean HR, HB, and probably even bo_sox are town. That leaves Jamie, rdrivera, and Macca. I think Macca is probably town. kgray could have been bussing either rdrivera or Jamie D1. Jamie never seemed to care much about kgray voting for him, so maybe kgray/summit/Jamie.

Why do you townread Macca?

What do you make of Macca having ZERO scumreads today?

I am town reading Macca because I find what he says believable, and because he does not seem to be getting any advice from scum partners in day chat.

As Macca had already corrected you, he does have scum reads.

[bozotheclown]

I looked into the discussion of Vecna's BP claim, and it seems like kgray, summit, and rdrivera were all aware of the claim fairly early. kgray was questioning players for not seeing the claim, rdrivera called it obvious without the link, and summit was the first to directly state Vecna had claimed. Jamie and HR said they missed the claim because they do not open links, bo_sox said he thought it was easy to miss, HB missed the claim, and I am not sure if Macca is aware of the claim. I also missed the claim because I typically do not open links, and I had read Vecna's post about getting something from the mods without thinking the link was going to be something important, I think it just sounded like a joke. With the mafia day chat, if one scum saw the claim they all would know, and the mafia also knew they had hit Vecna, so they would be looking for Vecna to claim, so I think this supports the possibility of a kgray/summit/rdrivera scum team.

Why scum would be looking for Vecna to claim as they already knew he is BP? Also, don't you believe scum is more likely to avoid looking like they already know Vecna is BP? At least one?

The scum would be reading Vecna's posts knowing he is the BP, so they would be more likely to pick up on his claim.

At first I thought it was likely someone was pretending to miss Vecna's claim, but I missed it, so maybe not. It is a connection between you, kgray, and summit.

[bozotheclown]

Why is bozo in your scumpool?

I've made my suspicions of Bozo very clear today. Aren't you reading my posts?

I am starting to agree with you. This Bozo insistence on building a whole scumteam and twisting things to fit it doesn't seems natural. And he magically forgot HR.

I don't know why everyone is not trying to identify an entire scum team.

What specifically do you think I am "twisting" to fit?

[rdrivera2005]

This post probably means Jamie is town if summit is mafia. That would mean kgray/summit/rdrivera is the most likely scum team if kgray changed her mind about voting for summit D2 because they are both mafia.

I can see a team with Kgray and Summit (and maybe Jamiet or even HB) and I can also see HR and Bo in a scum team together. I can also see you and HB being scum together. But I think we need to try to find one scum first before the whole team.

We only have 1 mis-kill left, so if we mis-kill today, we will have to find all 3 scum consecutively to win. Identifying the first scum is hard, because we do not have any know connections to scum to work with. However, that doesn't mean we should not try.

D2, when you thought EOD was an hour earlier, you said:

Don't think we can change the result now. If HR isn't scum we lose.

Vecna is dying too. Last words?

You seemed to think that a mis-kill would be a sure defeat.

If you think that "we need to try to find one scum first", why should we not look for possible connections to identify that one scum?

Because at this points we can only make assumptions as connections. You can conclude I am connected with Kgray or with HR but without knowing any alignment I can't see how to get a conclusion out of it lime you are tryng to do.
And even the flips we have are hard to draw connections as Vecna was a clear all D2. We can look at Damo, but we already spent the whole D2 doing it. We can also look at EOD 2 to see who could have saved who or forced a tie (Bo seems to believe I intentionally voted after the deadline, which is a bit offensive but at least have some logic) but without knowing HB, HR and Summit alignment it's also a lot of speculation.

[rdrivera2005]

I've made my suspicions of Bozo very clear today. Aren't you reading my posts?

I am starting to agree with you. This Bozo insistence on building a whole scumteam and twisting things to fit it doesn't seems natural. And he magically forgot HR.

I don't know why everyone is not trying to identify an entire scum team.

What specifically do you think I am "twisting" to fit?

I pointed two big failures in your reasoning about Vecna claim as BP and you completely ignored it.

[bozotheclown]

Bozo, you don’t have me entirely convinced but I just want to say you really should have led with the investigative track you’re on now as opposed to whatever it was you were doing earlier. You’re asking much better questions.

I am convinced on rdrivera and could vote him today over HB.

Are the questions better because they do not involve you? I am looking at everyone as possible scum. Just looking at the D2 EOD voting, you still look suspicious, but I tend to believe the scum team is being more subtle.

[rdrivera2005]

I am starting to agree with you. This Bozo insistence on building a whole scumteam and twisting things to fit it doesn't seems natural. And he magically forgot HR.

I don't know why everyone is not trying to identify an entire scum team.

What specifically do you think I am "twisting" to fit?

I pointed two big failures in your reasoning about Vecna claim as BP and you completely ignored it.

Forget, you answered above.

[rdrivera2005]

I looked into the discussion of Vecna's BP claim, and it seems like kgray, summit, and rdrivera were all aware of the claim fairly early. kgray was questioning players for not seeing the claim, rdrivera called it obvious without the link, and summit was the first to directly state Vecna had claimed. Jamie and HR said they missed the claim because they do not open links, bo_sox said he thought it was easy to miss, HB missed the claim, and I am not sure if Macca is aware of the claim. I also missed the claim because I typically do not open links, and I had read Vecna's post about getting something from the mods without thinking the link was going to be something important, I think it just sounded like a joke. With the mafia day chat, if one scum saw the claim they all would know, and the mafia also knew they had hit Vecna, so they would be looking for Vecna to claim, so I think this supports the possibility of a kgray/summit/rdrivera scum team.

Why scum would be looking for Vecna to claim as they already knew he is BP? Also, don't you believe scum is more likely to avoid looking like they already know Vecna is BP? At least one?

The scum would be reading Vecna's posts knowing he is the BP, so they would be more likely to pick up on his claim.

At first I thought it was likely someone was pretending to miss Vecna's claim, but I missed it, so maybe not. It is a connection between you, kgray, and summit.

Agree that there is one connection between me, Kgray and Summit: we all can read and comprehend what's written.

[bozotheclown]

Feeling pretty good about damo and jamie. macca not so much.

##vote macca

This post probably means Jamie is town if summit is mafia. That would mean kgray/summit/rdrivera is the most likely scum team if kgray changed her mind about voting for summit D2 because they are both mafia.

I don't see how this makes Jamie town if summit is mafia. Why do you think scum!summit would be unlikely to list a partner as a townread?

Yes, I do think summit would be unlikely to make a scum partner one of his first 2 town reads D1.

[bozotheclown]

Is this whole post a joke? You can't really think the scumteam includes Bo and Damo while also pointing out the obvious flaw in Jamie's plan but still calling it "good"?

Here is where the kgray/rdrivera D1 mutual voting began. It probably should be obvious enough that at least the second part of rdrivera's post was a joke that kgray should not need to ask.

It was very obvious that the second part of the post was a joke. That's why I asked if the whole post was a joke. The first sentence looked sincere to me.

OK, it still seems like a strong reaction.

[bozotheclown]

Why is bozo in your scumpool?

I've made my suspicions of Bozo very clear today. Aren't you reading my posts?

I am, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but the two main reasons you gave are his inactivity prior to today, which I agree is scummy from bozo, and his focus on "odd interactions" between you and HB. I do agree with him that if HB is scum he could implicate you through no fault of your own, but I also think most of HB's interactions can be characterized as odd so I see your point.

But I wanted to discuss bozo further because although D3 so far is more along the lines of what I was expecting from town!bozo, I can't get over the fact that he spent all of D2 talking about BP and mafia kills. At EOD he was online and brought up the same argument he'd been having with HR the whole phase but otherwise didn't contribute at all. Now he's going carefully through everyone else's votes and it's sort of convenient that we can't do the same with his. I'm trying to decide if this is alignment indicative.

Why can't you consider my votes, I voted D1 and D2?

[bozotheclown]

Bozo, you don’t have me entirely convinced but I just want to say you really should have led with the investigative track you’re on now as opposed to whatever it was you were doing earlier. You’re asking much better questions.

I am convinced on rdrivera and could vote him today over HB.

You are convinced that I am scum with summit and Kgray? Did you really bought that Bozo convoluted thinking?

Or if you have an own reason to scumread me state it.

What part do you find "convoluted"?

[bozotheclown]

I've made my suspicions of Bozo very clear today. Aren't you reading my posts?

I am, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but the two main reasons you gave are his inactivity prior to today, which I agree is scummy from bozo, and his focus on "odd interactions" between you and HB. I do agree with him that if HB is scum he could implicate you through no fault of your own, but I also think most of HB's interactions can be characterized as odd so I see your point.

But I wanted to discuss bozo further because although D3 so far is more along the lines of what I was expecting from town!bozo, I can't get over the fact that he spent all of D2 talking about BP and mafia kills. At EOD he was online and brought up the same argument he'd been having with HR the whole phase but otherwise didn't contribute at all. Now he's going carefully through everyone else's votes and it's sort of convenient that we can't do the same with his. I'm trying to decide if this is alignment indicative.

Those are my main reasons, yes. The points you make are valid too.

I am also concerned that Bozo is proposing a lot of speculative scum pairings implicating the majority of the remaining players in his "x could be scum with y" manner, but without clearly calling out his top scumreads or pushing anyone really hard.

If I am not being clear, my top scum reads are currently kgray, summit, and rdrivera, and I am voting for summit, because I think he is the one most likely to be scum independent of the others.

[bozotheclown]

Why scum would be looking for Vecna to claim as they already knew he is BP? Also, don't you believe scum is more likely to avoid looking like they already know Vecna is BP? At least one?

Okay rivera, now you can be my spokesperson.

Do you think Bozo twisting things and making this bullshit assumptions are scum indicative or town indicative? I keep flip flopping on this. And the opportunistic Bo's entrance make wonder if Bo and HR isn't a thing.

Again you are attacking my reads with generalized insults. Where am I "twisting things", and what poor assumptions am I making?

[bozotheclown]

Bozo, you don’t have me entirely convinced but I just want to say you really should have led with the investigative track you’re on now as opposed to whatever it was you were doing earlier. You’re asking much better questions.

I am convinced on rdrivera and could vote him today over HB.

You are convinced that I am scum with summit and Kgray? Did you really bought that Bozo convoluted thinking?

Or if you have an own reason to scumread me state it.

I scumread most people that intentionally vote after the deadline, and I've been pretty ready to scumread you throughout most of this game. I don't have some grandiose case if that's what you're looking for. Bozo's analysis of you, summit, and kgray isn't totally crazy; it certainly isn't half as convoluted as what he was trying to pull off with HR earlier. The thing I don't get about bozo's analysis is why he doesn't connect you and HB. It's pretty hard for me not to connect you two.

I believe rdrivera was really trying to kill HB at EOD.