MAFIA LVIII (58) - WITCHFINDER GENERAL - GAME THREAD

[rdrivera2005]

n1 ??? hr?
n2 flash (foolish if not)
n3 trprado ?

?? why not vecna?

Because Vecna will be dead? There is no protective left. This kind of post is the only thing that gave me some pause about you Durga.

[rdrivera2005]

That said, the reason I say assuming that is dangerous is because if the mafia are aware of that mechanic, they could easily consider the RB a safe way to townclear themselves, and while thus the risk is 50/50 that a virgin exists the reward of not targeting them in order to ensure one of them can go deep into the game might be worth it.

This is entirely possible. I am trying to put myself in scum's shoes and I would be of the mindset to ensure the following:

1. Only one member of the scum team is doing the kills to limit the potential impact of the Bloodhound.
2. Use the RB early on the target we are killing in case they are a doctor and are self saving.
3. Once done, spread the RB around to nerf the Virgin, Cop, and Bloodhound.

The only problem I have with this is it doesn’t address why Prado got it. If you’re gonna risk clearing people, I would start with the most widely townread person, which with Vecna gone is Durga, as opposed to going for someone that could be a mislynch. They’re down by a lot; they can’t afford to narrow down the suspect pool.

Bo, who do you want to vote for right now?

Bob, but I’m in no hurry. He’s under plenty of pressure and I’d love to hear some responses with actual substance from him first.

Bo, what do you think about Tr's whole "I have a case but I wanna see how this person acts today" thing?

I’m not sure what you’re referencing, is this today?

Exactly because a roleblock claim doesn't clear anyone is why scum can use it. I think it's NAI at worst but I tend to believe Trprado.

[summit_fever]

Alright, I have a potentially bad idea, but hear me out:

If the IC is a leading wagon at any point going forward, should they just fire it off so we move one instead of wasting the time?

I bring this up because scum will be forced to keep one of them (damo or the IC) alive until the 3P is found and eliminated. This creates a town clear that we can rally behind.

Also, if said PR is actually a virgin, you should never claim if you're being lynched and just let it happen.

Innocent child:
Claiming at this point isn't going to increase our odds of hitting mafia/3P by too much with 13 players still in the game.

Virgin:
If the virgin is daykilled we lose two PRs by the start of day 6.
If they claim we lose two PRs by the start of day 6.

It would probably be best to force mafia to make both the PR kills (damo and the claimed virgin), and give us a shot to hit mafia instead.

The witch is screwed because they'll need to have us miskill the last PR, as mafia nightkilling them would be against their win condition. If we're down to one unexposed PR they just need to claim immediately.

[worcej]

Can anyone point me to a game I can read where someone claimed RB? I don't remember if it happened in the Matrix one or not.

I claim RB usually anytime I get hit with it.

I suppose I am thinking that it is a lot easier to get away with faking a role block then,say, fake-claiming a role. Yes?

I would say they are used for entirely different purposes.

A RB claim can be used to try to fake clear, so usually they are always doubted while a fake role claim from a scum is usually used to bait out a PR to CC, used as a CC for a PR claim, or is just a VT to try to play off that they are town.

[rdrivera2005]

Alright, I have a potentially bad idea, but hear me out:

If the IC is a leading wagon at any point going forward, should they just fire it off so we move one instead of wasting the time?

I bring this up because scum will be forced to keep one of them (damo or the IC) alive until the 3P is found and eliminated. This creates a town clear that we can rally behind.

Also, if said PR is actually a virgin, you should never claim if you're being lynched and just let it happen.

Really? Do you want to trust scum to not kill the PRs? If they are losing they could gamble on not having a witch (it's 50/50) and just kill the clears.

[rdrivera2005]

Can anyone point me to a game I can read where someone claimed RB? I don't remember if it happened in the Matrix one or not.

I claim RB usually anytime I get hit with it.

I suppose I am thinking that it is a lot easier to get away with faking a role block then,say, fake-claiming a role. Yes?

Yes. Scum fake claiming a RB can't be counter claimed. That's why I think we should treat this as NAI.

[summit_fever]

Alright, I have a potentially bad idea, but hear me out:

If the IC is a leading wagon at any point going forward, should they just fire it off so we move one instead of wasting the time?

I bring this up because scum will be forced to keep one of them (damo or the IC) alive until the 3P is found and eliminated. This creates a town clear that we can rally behind.

Also, if said PR is actually a virgin, you should never claim if you're being lynched and just let it happen.

Really? Do you want to trust scum to not kill the PRs? If they are losing they could gamble on not having a witch (it's 50/50) and just kill the clears.

Focussing on playing against the witch has made me ignore that it's really a 50/50 proposition.

[summit_fever]

Alright, I have a potentially bad idea, but hear me out:

If the IC is a leading wagon at any point going forward, should they just fire it off so we move one instead of wasting the time?

I bring this up because scum will be forced to keep one of them (damo or the IC) alive until the 3P is found and eliminated. This creates a town clear that we can rally behind.

Also, if said PR is actually a virgin, you should never claim if you're being lynched and just let it happen.

Innocent child:
Claiming at this point isn't going to increase our odds of hitting mafia/3P by too much with 13 players still in the game.

Virgin:
If the virgin is daykilled we lose two PRs by the start of day 6.
If they claim we lose two PRs by the start of day 6.

It would probably be best to force mafia to make both the PR kills (damo and the claimed virgin), and give us a shot to hit mafia instead.

The witch is screwed because they'll need to have us miskill the last PR, as mafia nightkilling them would be against their win condition. If we're down to one unexposed PR they just need to claim immediately.

So given that I've ignored that there is only a 50% chance the game has a witch, this post is crap.

[rdrivera2005]

Alright, I have a potentially bad idea, but hear me out:

If the IC is a leading wagon at any point going forward, should they just fire it off so we move one instead of wasting the time?

I bring this up because scum will be forced to keep one of them (damo or the IC) alive until the 3P is found and eliminated. This creates a town clear that we can rally behind.

Also, if said PR is actually a virgin, you should never claim if you're being lynched and just let it happen.

Innocent child:
Claiming at this point isn't going to increase our odds of hitting mafia/3P by too much with 13 players still in the game.

Virgin:
If the virgin is daykilled we lose two PRs by the start of day 6.
If they claim we lose two PRs by the start of day 6.

It would probably be best to force mafia to make both the PR kills (damo and the claimed virgin), and give us a shot to hit mafia instead.

The witch is screwed because they'll need to have us miskill the last PR, as mafia nightkilling them would be against their win condition. If we're down to one unexposed PR they just need to claim immediately.

I am not fully convinced we should trust scum to not kill the PRs. It's not 100% sure we have a witch so it's hard to talk about win conditions.

[rdrivera2005]

Alright, I have a potentially bad idea, but hear me out:

If the IC is a leading wagon at any point going forward, should they just fire it off so we move one instead of wasting the time?

I bring this up because scum will be forced to keep one of them (damo or the IC) alive until the 3P is found and eliminated. This creates a town clear that we can rally behind.

Also, if said PR is actually a virgin, you should never claim if you're being lynched and just let it happen.

Innocent child:
Claiming at this point isn't going to increase our odds of hitting mafia/3P by too much with 13 players still in the game.

Virgin:
If the virgin is daykilled we lose two PRs by the start of day 6.
If they claim we lose two PRs by the start of day 6.

It would probably be best to force mafia to make both the PR kills (damo and the claimed virgin), and give us a shot to hit mafia instead.

The witch is screwed because they'll need to have us miskill the last PR, as mafia nightkilling them would be against their win condition. If we're down to one unexposed PR they just need to claim immediately.

So given that I've ignored that there is only a 50% chance the game has a witch, this post is crap.

Cross-post.

[summit_fever]

I'll try one more time:

If the virgin is daykilled without claiming we've lost a chance to hit scum and Mafia loses a chance to nightkill. This is equivalent to a daytime no-kill and mafia nightkilling the PR. I don't think this is the best idea given we're in a race against exposure of our third parties.

If we can eliminate the mafia with a PR still alive we win the game as long as a third party fake claim can't confuse the issue so much that we make a mistake. The innocent child would be very valuable at this point because a third party fake claim is impossible. Other PRs should consider how clear they'll be if we get into this situation.

[rdrivera2005]

I just noticed I am the biggest wagon now, with brilliant votes from Bob, Fox and Durga.

I think the lynch today should be between Fox and Bob.
I find Durga reaction to Bob posts really weird. He posted two walls of nothing and she treated like the greatest contribution to the game.

[rdrivera2005]

I'll try one more time:

If the virgin is daykilled without claiming we've lost a chance to hit scum and Mafia loses a chance to nightkill. This is equivalent to a daytime no-kill and mafia nightkilling the PR. I don't think this is the best idea given we're in a race against exposure of our third parties.

If we can eliminate the mafia with a PR still alive we win the game as long as a third party fake claim can't confuse the issue so much that we make a mistake. The innocent child would be very valuable at this point because a third party fake claim is impossible. Other PRs should consider how clear they'll be if we get into this situation.

Agree. Any PR in risk of being hanged should claim, so we will have the chance to kill a scum/3P and scum will have to decide if they risk killing PRs or not.

[Durga]

n1 ??? hr?
n2 flash (foolish if not)
n3 trprado ?

?? why not vecna?

Because Vecna will be dead? There is no protective left. This kind of post is the only thing that gave me some pause about you Durga.

Honestly, I'm surprising myself by my stupidity but if anything this is townie of me

[Foxcastle]

We probably should kill Worcej today, since it looks to me like today is TvT with a setup for a "Worcej was saved!" redux tomorrow. But if we did that, we'd just be killing Bob tomorrow.

Hey Fox, I thought this was kind of weird at the time for some reason but I didn't know why. What did you mean by a setup to claim someone was saved? Why did you vote worcej at the end? What is your current read of worcej?

I thought it was TvT, and that no matter which one flipped, my read of other players was that there would likely be a lot of people who would be speculating that the runner up was saved, whichever way it came out.

I voted for worcej because it was a mess and I thought he was a better kill than Bob.

[Durga]

Alright, I have a potentially bad idea, but hear me out:

If the IC is a leading wagon at any point going forward, should they just fire it off so we move one instead of wasting the time?

I bring this up because scum will be forced to keep one of them (damo or the IC) alive until the 3P is found and eliminated. This creates a town clear that we can rally behind.

Also, if said PR is actually a virgin, you should never claim if you're being lynched and just let it happen.

Innocent child:
Claiming at this point isn't going to increase our odds of hitting mafia/3P by too much with 13 players still in the game.

Virgin:
If the virgin is daykilled we lose two PRs by the start of day 6.
If they claim we lose two PRs by the start of day 6.

It would probably be best to force mafia to make both the PR kills (damo and the claimed virgin), and give us a shot to hit mafia instead.

The witch is screwed because they'll need to have us miskill the last PR, as mafia nightkilling them would be against their win condition. If we're down to one unexposed PR they just need to claim immediately.

Isn't there more than one way for the witch to win. I can't remember Vecna's lost post about it but isn't it bad if they have control over x amount of PR's or something

[Durga]

Mafia knows as much as we do so I don't see why they would kill the last PR instead of just roleblocking them to be careful not to accidentally lose the game.

Rdr just sounds salty about having PR's around that he can't kill

[Foxcastle]

So are you trying to say that experience scarred you from overly trying now?

I recall enjoying you squirm as you passionately tried. Not to toot my own horn, but I think keeping xorxes and bozo in the game for as long as damo and I did was the best play we made because they didn't believe each other and couldn't take a step back in time (bozo figured it out right before he died).

One thing that does make me think you're scum is how you're latching on to me and Durga. In previous games where you've been up for the kill, you weren't so tunnely and actually tried to help town win. Here, not so much.

To rephrase my earlier question, Fox can you explain more about your shift here? Why do you think scum worcej would self vote at EOD?

Yeah, my thinking on Worcej is muddled. I think he's town, I resent his terrible reads on me and Durga, and I'm paranoid that he could actually be trying to eke his way out of this as scum. But I think scum self-vote frequently to try to garner sympathy and fake town out.

[Jamiet99uk]

VOTE COUNT 4.2

rdrivera2005 (3) - Foxcastle, BobMcBob, Durga
BobMcBob (2) - damo666, TrPrado
e.m.c^42 (2) - worcej, Hamilton Brian
bo_sox48 (1) - bozotheclown
Foxcastle (1) - Rdrivera

4 players are yet to vote and EMC and Damo need to participate.

Rdrivera is now set to hang.

25 hours and 35 minutes remain in the day.

[rdrivera2005]

Alright, I have a potentially bad idea, but hear me out:

If the IC is a leading wagon at any point going forward, should they just fire it off so we move one instead of wasting the time?

I bring this up because scum will be forced to keep one of them (damo or the IC) alive until the 3P is found and eliminated. This creates a town clear that we can rally behind.

Also, if said PR is actually a virgin, you should never claim if you're being lynched and just let it happen.

Innocent child:
Claiming at this point isn't going to increase our odds of hitting mafia/3P by too much with 13 players still in the game.

Virgin:
If the virgin is daykilled we lose two PRs by the start of day 6.
If they claim we lose two PRs by the start of day 6.

It would probably be best to force mafia to make both the PR kills (damo and the claimed virgin), and give us a shot to hit mafia instead.

The witch is screwed because they'll need to have us miskill the last PR, as mafia nightkilling them would be against their win condition. If we're down to one unexposed PR they just need to claim immediately.

Isn't there more than one way for the witch to win. I can't remember Vecna's lost post about it but isn't it bad if they have control over x amount of PR's or something

You are trolling us, I just can't find another explanation for your play.