MAFIA LVIII (58) - WITCHFINDER GENERAL - GAME THREAD

[bozotheclown]

I don't have a solid case on Rdrivera, but that's why I'm voting him. Scum win when they can be unobtrusive, which is how I'd describe Rdrivera's play. Maybe not in tone, but in action. On Day 1 and 2 he was pushing Yoyo based on very little and not exploring other options.

I think there's at least one scum on the Damo and Yoyo wagons from Day 1, and TrPrado and Rdrivera are the two that I'm not townreading. On Day 2, he opened early with a "Ghug is probably scum" and then tried to take credit shortly after the flip with "I told ghug was scum."

Does anyone know if town Rdrivera is likely to go along with various mechanical schemes (e.g., "I win when mafia and third party are eliminated," the hypo claims) without question? Because he did here, and I'd expect that even as scum space themselves out through that process, some would be quick to join. Rdrivera was one of the early posts of the "I win when" statement (after Bunny, Summit, and Damo), and an early hypo claimer on N1 (after Bozo, Flash, Worcej).

It's not much to go on, but I think town is often wrong in trying to hang players for their inconsistencies and flailings, while scum who are more careful about avoiding those kind of slips get by.

I do not think it is unusual for rdrivera to participate in these types of things.

[bozotheclown]

I am fine to continue voting for Durga. I think too-cool-for-school Durga (e.g., not reading the setup, not reading the thread, etc) is somewhat scum indicative.

We should not be policy killing SarahK at this point. Day 1 is too important for that, we need a referendum on an actual player who might be scum.

I would potentially vote for Worcej or Ghug over Durga at this point, though. I think Worcej is playing too nicely. Bozo is obviously town to me—he's focusing way too much on small inconsistencies, so he will probably end up tunneling on a townie.

Defends Sarah/chaqa slot here.

Again, you are blatantly misreading this.

##VOTE SETH

What was he misreading? I think he is just saying you did not want to kill that slot D1.

[bozotheclown]

Seth's thing on Foxc is surprisngly compelling, except for the fact that FoxC is someone who will absolutely bus the shit out of a teammate he sees as policy possibility lmao - see that game where he bussed me to death on day 1.

This is not unlike what I was thinking, I understand what seth is pointing out, but Foxcastle is more likely to distance than try to protect mafia teammates.

[damo666]

FWIW - this is my views currently:

Confirmed Town: damo (RIP after this phase)

Town lean: bozo, Vecna, rdr, Bob, HB

Null: Prado, summit, seth, bo_

Scum lean: emc

Scum: Durga, Fox

I got no immunity worcejjy

[damo666]

FWIW - this is my views currently:

Confirmed Town: damo (RIP after this phase)

Town lean: bozo, Vecna, rdr, Bob, HB

Null: Prado, summit, seth, bo_

Scum lean: emc

Scum: Durga, Fox

I got no immunity worcejjy

*nk

I don't think your ruse would have worked btw, I doubt scum are that stupid but sorry we spoilt it.

[damo666]

I don't know why bo thinks he is any more likely a NK than Durga Vecna Bozo or fox tbh.

Bob is full of flannel. He should be tomorrow's daykill. No ties please.

[Hamilton Brian]

Hmmm. Tell me more.

I will let you figure that one out.
[/quote]

Oh shit. Just squared me right in the face.

[worcej]

Continuing the last post:

So assuming I made a decision based off 8-2 for Bob requires you to think I was watching and am lying about being busy IRL, which like rdr, I have no reason to ever lie about.

End of phase is 2:00 PM for me, which is smack dab in the middle of my work day. Usually this bodes well for me since my job requires a lot of office work, but sometimes it's shit due to meetings (even in COVID wonderland)

I do not remember you previously saying you were not able to watch D3 EOD closely because you were busy. There were a lot of vote changes in the last 2 minutes, so I think there were a lot of votes where no one was sure of the exact vote count, especially with the bot "Bob" issue. However, I think it would be a mistake to dismiss your vote as having no potential scum motivation.

Without requoting the massive wall, I opened it with this:

"Alright, breaking the silence because I want to and mostly because I don't think I can be around @ EOD to last second this stuff. My stunt did provide something to say the least (more on that in a response below):"

I am not saying dismiss any scum motivation, though there was none, I am just pointing out something you didn't factor in.

[worcej]

FWIW - this is my views currently:

Confirmed Town: damo (RIP after this phase)

Town lean: bozo, Vecna, rdr, Bob, HB

Null: Prado, summit, seth, bo_

Scum lean: emc

Scum: Durga, Fox

I got no immunity worcejjy

*nk

I don't think your ruse would have worked btw, I doubt scum are that stupid but sorry we spoilt it.

I mean, probably not. But it seems rather foolish to shine a flashlight onto that fact like bo did.

[worcej]

I don't know why bo thinks he is any more likely a NK than Durga Vecna Bozo or fox tbh.

Bob is full of flannel. He should be tomorrow's daykill. No ties please.

If scum do me the favor and NK fox or Durga so I go tunnel someone else, I would greatly appreciate it.

[Durga]

I don't know why bo thinks he is any more likely a NK than Durga Vecna Bozo or fox tbh.

Bob is full of flannel. He should be tomorrow's daykill. No ties please.

If scum do me the favor and NK fox or Durga so I go tunnel someone else, I would greatly appreciate it.

Honestly your tunneling works out for me, because I don't really want to be NK'd

[BobMcBob]

I think the remaining scum, including 3P, has to lie within Fox, rdr, summit, and maybe prado, bozo or worcej (the latter 3 being less likely of course). Everyone else is well and in my towncore.
Rdr, you've been tunneling me for ages. Like literally before I joined the game. What exactly is your case on me? Is it just as lame and boring as everybody else's and you've just been stuck sitting on it for longer?
Vecna and Durga and co, why did you obsess over Seth's Matthew comment like that? I could understand a little pressure on him to see if he showed any signs of flinching, but it just continued on for way too long with a large semantic discussion about something that should've been moved on from pages earlier.

[rdrivera2005]

I think the remaining scum, including 3P, has to lie within Fox, rdr, summit, and maybe prado, bozo or worcej (the latter 3 being less likely of course). Everyone else is well and in my towncore.
Rdr, you've been tunneling me for ages. Like literally before I joined the game. What exactly is your case on me? Is it just as lame and boring as everybody else's and you've just been stuck sitting on it for longer?
Vecna and Durga and co, why did you obsess over Seth's Matthew comment like that? I could understand a little pressure on him to see if he showed any signs of flinching, but it just continued on for way too long with a large semantic discussion about something that should've been moved on from pages earlier.

I have been tunneling you for ages and yet you are still alive. I don't see anything you have done to change my read on you.
You finally gave reads and they are lazy and without any reasoning.

I will give you a chance next day if we are both alive. Build a case on me or Fox that show you are thinking about the game and not just parroting and I will not tunnel you.

[Vecna]

I think the remaining scum, including 3P, has to lie within Fox, rdr, summit, and maybe prado, bozo or worcej (the latter 3 being less likely of course). Everyone else is well and in my towncore.
Rdr, you've been tunneling me for ages. Like literally before I joined the game. What exactly is your case on me? Is it just as lame and boring as everybody else's and you've just been stuck sitting on it for longer?
Vecna and Durga and co, why did you obsess over Seth's Matthew comment like that? I could understand a little pressure on him to see if he showed any signs of flinching, but it just continued on for way too long with a large semantic discussion about something that should've been moved on from pages earlier.

so im no longer scum thats playing as a meek follower?

[worcej]

I am still in the 'Bob is just being lazy/bad town' camp with how poor his reads are.

[Hamilton Brian]

As I deep dive through EMC, did we ever get a response to why he suggested doc on Durga and Desperado on Seth? Haven't come across it yet.

Hey, EMC...what did you see on Seth that you felt was worth risking the Desperado?

[Hamilton Brian]

EMC is pretty light. There's not a lot that stands out.

EMC: Was originally Bismarck

Day 1 vote: Voted Damos and stayed on Damos ALL day; “me thinks that there boy is scum at heart.” Too bad we can't resurrect Bis to get him to expand on this; joke at heart? Day 1 antics?

Day 2 Vote: Started on me, then to Chaqa.
In relation to me, “He's been somewhat less aggresive than I recall his town game being, let's see if prodding will do anything."

Then to Chaqa: At the 4 minute mark, voted for Chaqa. Maintained, “ At least Flash is being honest about self-saving.” What’s the context? But also said, “We have enough time.” Time for what? Wanted to stay on my wagon but Chaqa’s looked “tempting.” In rationalizing his vote on Chaqa to Seth, “His post just felt wrong.” Really, EMC? Wasn’t anything else?

Night 1, offers this bit: “Before forgetting during catchup, doc on Durga, desperado on seth I guess, for the rhymes heh.” Did we ever get a response about Why they suggested it? I see that there was some attention to it. When asked why by Durga, he maintained, You seem like a decent alt-kill to Vecna if there is another of the "old crowd" in the mafia team, and lack of gut feeling scumread on you? What did they see in Seth that was worth risking the Desperado?

Had questions about the ghug-durga banter, so not really tipping anything there.

Declares Summit seems town, and “bland.”

Blew the vote on Bob with 1 minute to go according to post timeline; jamie had posted several times already to use the appropriate BobMcBob.

Agrees with Vecna (Worcej is town, or worcej is scum with Bob).

I don't know...not strong town, not necessarily scummy. Just kind of, "there." Comfortably bland and uncontroversial. Coasting?

[bo_sox48]

I don't know why bo thinks he is any more likely a NK than Durga Vecna Bozo or fox tbh.

Ego?

[bo_sox48]

Rereading some of emc, specifically noting connections with fallen scum and his EOD interactions:

Emc’s EOD2:

Chaqa, my friend, did you sub in as scum this time? Lol. This post reads kind of...bleh, is it just me?

This seems… prescient? But accurate. I don’t think penalizing someone for an accurate depiction is fair.

I don't think anyone really said anything about Chaqa until I mentioned him, was there a case built? I wasn't aware anyone else had strong thoughts on him.

I thought this one was a bit strange. Key word here for me is “strong” thoughts, because that implies that emc had strong thoughts about Chaqa. The prior post was the only substantial post toward or regarding Chaqa that emc had made, and it doesn’t seem to break the “strong thoughts” threshold to me. Emc, what sort of thoughts did you have toward Chaqa prior to voting for him that you didn’t share with us?

With 6 minutes and 4 minutes to EOD respectively:

Hm, this is conflicting, would like to stay on my HB vote but the Chaqa wagon also looks tempting, and they're all close.

We have enough time, ##vote Chaqa

At least flash is being honest about self-saving lol

At the time of emc’s vote, HB was leading 6-5-4, 5 being flash and 4 being Chaqa. This vote tied the board with 4 minutes to go.

Emc, why did you leave HB’s wagon? How do you read him now?

Hm, this is conflicting, would like to stay on my HB vote but the Chaqa wagon also looks tempting, and they're all close.

EMC, you of all people should know my excuses and complicated life are quite real

I hate both counterwagons. I feel flash is his normal town self and HB had what I think is a townslip, but it could be a lazyscum slip I guess...

I'm not actually scumreading you because of your absence, I'm doing it because that post was...not a post you would usually make, or the reasoning that you would use? It was largely "formula", and you aren't that kind of guy with mafia.

Well, any scumreads off your gut right now?

With two minutes to go, you ask Chaqa for… scumreads? I don’t get this. Why are you asking him for his reads with two minutes to go until the deadline? If this is important to you, why not ask it before the deadline?

Wow after reading through chaqa was really out to get emc. Is there bad blood from previous games or what lol.

Nah, we're friends lol, it's just a running joke to give shit (appropriately if I may say) on not voting early, and he's got a habit of dropping an early vote on me for a few games now, I think.

Do you have examples of this? I don’t recall it, but I also personally ignore the first few hours of most games.

Emc’s EOD3:

Bob appears very lost, like that game when I hard-town'd basically the entire scum team after quick skimming the entire game, lol. If he's scum though, he seems more likely to be 3P than on a team I think.

Fair read. Why do you think he’s more likely third party?

But seriously, please lynch me now - too many of you do not believe I am town and it's better to get rid of me now so that you can stop wasting time looking back at me.

This kinda reads as some sort of scum reverse psychology shit, but it's inane enough that it seems more likely for notscum!worcej to do this.

I’m assuming this is a townread.

I don't see the Matthew joke from seth as alignment indicative, but it is a bit odd he didn't really continue to make flavour jokes or references.

This is a good catch, actually. You call the joke NAI, so I take it you believe the joke was a coincidence?

Here are his four votes, the first coming 31 minutes before EOD.

Is worcej here? I kind of want to pull his taunt closer to EOD and see how he reacts, but if he isn't going to be here there's not much point.

Who cares, ##vote worcej until I finish the last few middle pages (and so Jamie stops stressing lmao)

Actually, foxC is here, let's poke atcha. ##vote foxc

Well, if this ain't pressure. Was hoping to see Fox respond to wagon but he's vanished and it's a bit late for that.

... I am right here. I just voted to tie wagon for the lead. What are you talking about?

Ah, you're back! xposted. I guess ##vote worce then, I don't really see seth or bob as scum.

But, 3P, hmm. ##vote bob then, worcej you better come back lol

Why did you wait until 30 minutes prior to the deadline to try to “taunt” worcej, and what did you expect his reaction to be if he were town and if he were scum?

What did you accomplish with your “poke atcha” of Fox? You did not ask him any direct questions after voting for him.

Why did you take your vote off of Fox to go back to worcej? The vote count at this time was 4-4-3, with worcej and Bob with 4 and Fox with 3. You ensured with this vote that Fox did not have an opportunity to be the kill by making it 5-4-2, so you must have had a good reason to get off of him.

Why did you vote for Bob over worcej after bailing on your scumread to get worcej?

Why did you aim for the third party instead of aiming for scum? Did you townread the other wagons?

[Hamilton Brian]

Have we ascertained which 3P role we’re dealing with? I didn’t think so, and I’m not sure it’s even possible. Both of those roles have very peculiar voting expectations. When I get a block of time I’d like to spend some time on that.