MAFIA LVIII (58) - WITCHFINDER GENERAL - GAME THREAD

[Durga]

Someday, baby. Yeah I hadn't played in like a year until Flum talked me into the last one.

I get the feeling Vecna and ghug are mafia and are taunting us.

This same thought crossed my mind when I read Vecna's post.

Does anyone still feel like this

[seth24c]

oh my.

can you both explain why u think this looks bad?

You think it's just a joke? It's a 16-1 shot based on luck. Or someone got a lil cocky.

I wish I could tell you that it was something other than a joke! I guess looking back it is notable that ghug seemed to have a hard time responding to it lol.

[rdrivera2005]

UHM CAN WE TLK ABOUT THIS LMAO

oh my.

can you both explain why u think this looks bad?

Take a look at last EON...

[TrPrado]

Bob, damo, emc, Fox, Seth, and Prado have not voted. Can yall vote so we can coalesce on some wagons early? In the event we wagon on our PR it would be helpful to give them some time to weasel their way out of it as opposed to forcing them to claim simply to survive.

Bringing this back for emc, Prado, seth, and Fox.

Yeah sure ##VOTE BO

[Durga]

Ghug are you voting me in an attempt to replicate your town game from last time or are you that obsessed with me

Doesn't he always vote for you D1?

Is this bozo defending ghug? It's hella weird given how much ghug was grilling bozo this page for being useless.

Yeah we really need to get back on track and also hear from some of those who haven’t posted yet.

Do you have reads on anyone yet, Seth?

Still pretty neutral on most people at this point. Do you have a read on Venca?

Seth i'm sorry if you did this but can you explain your weird obsession with Vecna

I also believe I win when bunny's team is eliminated.

##vote bunny

Not a lie, maybe?

[seth24c]

Yep.

Ok now I believe you.

You better slow down there Matthew, you only get two scans.

Just wanted to make sure you weren't my teammate.

Took ghug way longer to respond after I called him matthew than it did for him to say that he believed me. I think he thought that as the new player he may be able to get some early pressure on me and make me seem suspicious. Later in day 1 he asked if I have played mafia before elsewhere so it's almost like he was scoping out my skill level. Just pointing this all out because it seems some people think my interaction with ghug was suspicious.

[rdrivera2005]

can you both explain why u think this looks bad?

You think it's just a joke? It's a 16-1 shot based on luck. Or someone got a lil cocky.

I wish I could tell you that it was something other than a joke! I guess looking back it is notable that ghug seemed to have a hard time responding to it lol.

Why did you called him Matthew?

[Durga]

I am town.

Is it weird that worcej left out the 3rd party thing or am I being paranoid?

[damo666]

I am town.

Is it weird that worcej left out the 3rd party thing or am I being paranoid?

paranoid

[damo666]

Bob, damo, emc, Fox, Seth, and Prado have not voted. Can yall vote so we can coalesce on some wagons early? In the event we wagon on our PR it would be helpful to give them some time to weasel their way out of it as opposed to forcing them to claim simply to survive.

Bringing this back for emc, Prado, seth, and Fox.

Yeah sure ##VOTE BO

reason?

[seth24c]

Do you have reads on anyone yet, Seth?

Still pretty neutral on most people at this point. Do you have a read on Venca?

Seth i'm sorry if you did this but can you explain your weird obsession with Vecna

Certainly, I felt that ghug was suspicious on day 1, in this post I was trying to get ghug to be more specific because I felt like he kept trying to get me to talk/pocket me without saying much of substance himself. Ghug and vecna has also had the interaction earlier where vecna had asked ghug when they would role mafia together and I felt ghug had a weird response to that interaction so I wanted to hear more from him about vecna particularly. I also asked someone else, I think it was you, why they townread vecna on day 1 because I don't know everyone's meta and vecna hadn't felt town to me at that point.

[Durga]

Still pretty neutral on most people at this point. Do you have a read on Venca?

Seth i'm sorry if you did this but can you explain your weird obsession with Vecna

Certainly, I felt that ghug was suspicious on day 1, in this post I was trying to get ghug to be more specific because I felt like he kept trying to get me to talk/pocket me without saying much of substance himself. Ghug and vecna has also had the interaction earlier where vecna had asked ghug when they would role mafia together and I felt ghug had a weird response to that interaction so I wanted to hear more from him about vecna particularly. I also asked someone else, I think it was you, why they townread vecna on day 1 because I don't know everyone's meta and vecna hadn't felt town to me at that point.

This is interesting because why did you ask about Vecna like five times and never ask about ghug given you thought ghug was sus and the interaction was weird?

[seth24c]

You think it's just a joke? It's a 16-1 shot based on luck. Or someone got a lil cocky.

I wish I could tell you that it was something other than a joke! I guess looking back it is notable that ghug seemed to have a hard time responding to it lol.

Why did you called him Matthew?

That was the potential mafia lie detector role so I was joking that he had used the lie detector skill to find that my statement that I won when the mafia and third party are defeated to be true.

[Durga]

Aww, my massive word wall didn't move the needle at all?

To speak for myself, I liked what you were saying, but it was entirely fakeable because mechanics, which is why mechanics suck.

I guess there is some truth in that. I appreciate your suspicion to say the least.

why is worcej so non aggressive towards ghug specifically?

man guys, i'm having a hard time deciding between worcej, seth, bob, and bo

[bo_sox48]

That's an odd way to scumslip but I do think it's more likely than not a scumslip.

[worcej]

Alright, breaking the silence because I want to and mostly because I don't think I can be around @ EOD to last second this stuff. My stunt did provide something to say the least (more on that in a response below):

I find it concerning the people who wanted my death are back peddling now and looking elsewhere. I was so obvious a choice but then I suddenly wasn't because of my 'stunt'? *insert skeptical face*

The obvious person to be weird about what I did is Durga. In all honesty, I do strongly believe she is scum or at the least 3P - nothing about her play seems genuine to me, but that could be because my perception of her 'normal' is that she is competent and understands what is going on in the games she plays. I don't get that vibe from this game at all - in fact, she is doing the opposite intentionally. Too many 'idk what is going on' type posts and being wishy-washy. It is all noise and appearing like she is participating. She has also put up a lot of posts this game, unlike 'normal' games, and she herself has said that she tries more as scum. Everything about my case is based on her trying to sell this towny act. I don't buy it and would love to see her flip, but again no one wants to see it.

Damo's poke at me for claiming VT is ironic considering he did exactly what he was advised not to do by using his ability on someone not heavily scumread, but in all honesty it's on par for who damo is and we've seen it numerous times that he plays how he wants. Luckily, it worked out for us this time. He's doomed to die on the next night phase (unless we have an incredibly stupid scum team...) but the outcome of his move justifies it. Somewhat shocked I didn't hear much from Vecna about this...

Speaking of Vecna! Vecna looks towny with his analysis. Intentionally fake? Probably not. A level of skepticism should always be present, especially because this would've been an impressive strategy to do as scum. But I would shy away from it personally because my slot/presence in games is always suspect unless I can claim otherwise.

TrPrado's assessment on my case is accurate only if you dismiss or disagree with the assessment of ghug and Durga's banter as being scum theater and do not share the same opinion of Durga's play. That is the case, like it or not. Considering the history between ghug and Durga, I truly believe it was all theater and was low effort for them to do. At no point did Durga ever really get the ball rolling of eliminating ghug either, so her counter-point of 'I don't bus' is irrelevant in my eyes.

Also, Bob is being pretty disappointing in how he is following. It is low effort, but as a sub I tend to townie that more than scum it. There is a lot to get caught up on and too much uncertainty when you're town and subbing in. Scum would have a better idea about the game state and be able to fake it enough to get townie points.

Fox's analysis is forgetting that I have already effectively berated the people for these reads. His vote on me is easy because he knows I am an easy hang at this point and that's all he needs, especially if 3P. I'll address this more in my text wall below.

Important things to respond to:

[snip]

Responses to questions in order received:

1. People were specifically calling out to remove Sarah on D1 due to her lurking and lack of dependability. I personally think D1 should go after someone participating more and then you remember who lurked D1 for future eliminations. If she managed to barely participate and make it to D2, I would've pushed her then and presented the case that she is a liability if town because damo and myself won as scum on the back of her inability to perform.
2. I usually come off as defensive because I am abrasive more than anything. I was a common scum read and wanted to force people to actually present cases for me to counter instead of muddying the waters like they were.
3. I think Fox's pushing of me was cherry picking and trying to make a case out of context he got to manipulate. At the time, I thought Fox was tunneling but now he really hasn't been - he vanished. This has been my longstanding observation: Fox typically tunnels as town. The fact that he stopped is a big deal and thus he is in my scum team.
4. This is addressed with the above post. At the time, he was tunneling. Now he is not.
5. Why was I not confident? I had no network access or my cell phone for a majority of the last 2 hours of the phase and saw I missed several pages with limited time. I fired from the hip @ HB over Chaqa and Flash. Not much else to be said about this.
6. I was indicating to any people who pay attention that I was a VT because I have said multiple times I don't care if you kill me as a VT - if you are at the point of wanting me gone, then my flip is necessary to justify my intent. Other the following possible effects, imho, are:
   • You all realize I am not a PR so I won't cause a fake claim shit show like bozo did last game.
   • Scum will see me as a safe kill at some point, allowing some PR protection in the probable chance there is a witch instead of a warlock.
7. My confident answer based off my reads is Durga is scum and Vecna is town. Fox is 3P or other scum. If scum, I am unsure on actual 3P but would definitely say it isn't Bob.

[snip]

This day was only worthless because you allow it to be - once I flip, you should look at the cases people leveraged against me. Notably, Bozo and Fox will have egg on their face. Durga and Vecna will have been dinks as well. I find it peculiar that you would think this day is wasted and scum now have it easy...

[snip]

This is painfully true... my masterpiece of gameplay is still my SK game and then Chaqa's assist on saving my butt in the Gladiator game. Regardless, I've tried to focus more of my attention on how people are stylistically approaching the game, thus my 'obsession' at Durga and Fox.

[snip]

Yep, that the Gladiator game. It was also the game you just randomly quit because of my Vig shot. And again, Chaqa saved my butt and damo made a legendary play so that we also murdered rdr with my earned NK.

I had such a huge high of 'wow, I cannot believe I salvaged this game somehow!'

[bo_sox48]

Bob, damo, emc, Fox, Seth, and Prado have not voted. Can yall vote so we can coalesce on some wagons early? In the event we wagon on our PR it would be helpful to give them some time to weasel their way out of it as opposed to forcing them to claim simply to survive.

Bringing this back for emc, Prado, seth, and Fox.

Yeah sure ##VOTE BO

You're doing what I asked so I have a hard time being mad about this

[TrPrado]

I’m thinking not seth, from what I’ve read of him he’s seemed confident and self reliant, far too much for him to be a new scum player. I haven’t done an iso so take it as you will but that’s the feeling I’ve gotten as the game has gone on, and I’m really hesitant on worcej right now.

[seth24c]

Seth i'm sorry if you did this but can you explain your weird obsession with Vecna

Certainly, I felt that ghug was suspicious on day 1, in this post I was trying to get ghug to be more specific because I felt like he kept trying to get me to talk/pocket me without saying much of substance himself. Ghug and vecna has also had the interaction earlier where vecna had asked ghug when they would role mafia together and I felt ghug had a weird response to that interaction so I wanted to hear more from him about vecna particularly. I also asked someone else, I think it was you, why they townread vecna on day 1 because I don't know everyone's meta and vecna hadn't felt town to me at that point.

This is interesting because why did you ask about Vecna like five times and never ask about ghug given you thought ghug was sus and the interaction was weird?

Because I wanted to get ghug talking in substance about someone else. I felt there was better potential to get information if he was talking about someone else than if I had attacked him directly and he got defensive. The reason I asked why town read vecna was also just to try to get some non mech conversation going if I remember correctly. That was one of the first posts where anyone had townread anyone so I was curious where that read had come from.

[bo_sox48]

I do not have the brain power to read that post before I eat some lunch