MAFIA LVIII (58) - WITCHFINDER GENERAL - GAME THREAD

[damo666]

The following slots have unfavourable voting both days

Bob
Bo
ghug
Ham
Worcej

Unfavorable due to what? Important criteria to assess.

Also, yeah my D2 was bad, but I stand by my read. I still don’t feel that Chaqa’s wagon occurred naturally.

I've answered this already.

[bo_sox48]

They are both towny enough to warrant exclusion.

I might not have all 4 in that 7 but doubt less than 3.

This is some hilariously subjective conversation disguised as honest and objective analysis

Welcome to talking with someone who loves math.

I read this as meth at first

[bo_sox48]

Imagine pushing a mafia pr who wasn't even on the table as the kill when you had other (probably) town options you could get miskilled. Just yikes

Sounds like a possible outcome from numerous players if Chaqa told them to do it in the N1 scum chat.

This makes no sense

[bozotheclown]

I think it is likely the early Chaqa voters are all town or 3P, I do not see why the mafia would want to start bussing Chaqa considering his role. Durga and emc in particular look good, Durga drove the kill of Chaqa, and emc's vote was critical in getting Chaqa. There may be a mafia in the last 4 Chaqa voters, but I currently town read those 4. Therefore, I would not be surprised if the entire Chaqa wagon is non-mafia. That leaves the "damo 5" as the top mafia suspects. Hamilton is probably town or 3P, he could have voted for flash before leaving to protect himself and Chaqa. I still say Yoyoyozo was town. That leaves bo_sox, ghug, and worcej as the most likely remaining mafia. Looking at their voting and interactions with each other and Chaqa, I do not see anything inconsistent with a Chaqa/bo_sox/ghug/worcej mafia team.

[Vecna]

How do you reflect on calling me out as Flash' teammate now Bo?

You + HB as scum together fits quite well with how Chaqa approached that EoD there....

"look at this post, it must be a HB townslip"

"oh shit, im a wagon now, itd look really awkward if I dont vote HB my counterwagon now"

[bo_sox48]

How do you reflect on calling me out as Flash' teammate now Bo?

You + HB as scum together fits quite well with how Chaqa approached that EoD there....

"look at this post, it must be a HB townslip"

"oh shit, im a wagon now, itd look really awkward if I dont vote HB my counterwagon now"

How do I "reflect" on it? Are you trying to make this a "HA, you were WRONG!!!" moment? Obviously I was wrong, but I was scumreading flash and in the event flash were scum it would be a noteworthy moment.

I can see the point here about HB. I felt a little bit better about him on D2 than I did earlier, but it's possible for sure. I'm not sure where I fit into that equation.

[bozotheclown]

Can you say something that actually leads into a conversation sometime

Who is your biggest scum read and why?

You, because your strategy for handling this game is to make a lot of vague statements and take on a childish "I don't wanna" approach when asked to validate anything you say. It's how I played for awhile way back when the first couple times I was mafia and it didn't work for me, but you're getting nothing but null reads for whatever reason. Beyond just being absurdly annoying, it's not genuine and I don't really know why you didn't get lynched day 1 but I can't usually be around at the 4 PM EOD to make it happen. I also suspect that one of the late changers to Chaqa after flash claimed PR was busing, and whaddaya know that might just be you.

Since you didn't ask, my second scumread is Yoyobob. Yoyo had my attention for reasons I already gave N1 and Bob joined the game with a bunch of self-deprecating posts that just read like excuses for all the things he plans to do to kind of hang out under the radar:

Somebody tell me about this guy.

I presume you meant anyone but me, but this is like my 5th or 6th game, I'm not great, I tend to get overly defensive, make somewhat indecisive reads, come off as hedgy and forced and spend most of my time trying to get people off my back. Only ever been hung as mafia. I think last game I managed to do a lot less of the stuff I mentioned above, but still not a great performance. Never a particularly valuable player, but still a decent guy to have around.

Sure enough his reads tonight have followed that template he initially gave us. I don't really expect him to do anything groundbreaking; I'm not that familiar with him and don't see him as a good player, but if someone comes into the game admitting they're not gonna do jack shit they're just laying the groundwork to make excuse after excuse and coast to the end.

I feel better about summit and HB than I did earlier. I'm guessing one of bozo, rdrivera, or possibly one of ghug or Durga is the final scumteam member, but that's purely a guess and I need to do some reading and dig a little for that. HR was quite clearly a fearkill and those three are the ones remaining in this game that I don't have a decent townread on that I feel might make that decision.

Why don't you give me your list while we're at it? Great start, let's pretend we're drinking some beers together and keep the chatter going.

This reinforces my scum read of bo_sox. His criticism of damo is not accurate.

[bo_sox48]

I think it is likely the early Chaqa voters are all town or 3P, I do not see why the mafia would want to start bussing Chaqa considering his role. Durga and emc in particular look good, Durga drove the kill of Chaqa, and emc's vote was critical in getting Chaqa. There may be a mafia in the last 4 Chaqa voters, but I currently town read those 4. Therefore, I would not be surprised if the entire Chaqa wagon is non-mafia. That leaves the "damo 5" as the top mafia suspects. Hamilton is probably town or 3P, he could have voted for flash before leaving to protect himself and Chaqa. I still say Yoyoyozo was town. That leaves bo_sox, ghug, and worcej as the most likely remaining mafia. Looking at their voting and interactions with each other and Chaqa, I do not see anything inconsistent with a Chaqa/bo_sox/ghug/worcej mafia team.

You can connect the dots any way you like, but I wasn't physically here from when Chaqa became a legitimate wagon through the EOD. I didn't even know the wagon ever existed until after I got off work. I don't like you holding that against me.

[Vecna]

In hindsight one could make the argument you were trying to strong arm me off of HB and back onto Flash

[damo666]

@bo I gave a read list already

I don't understand what you mean by 'getting null reads', do you mean I'm giving out null reads or people are reading me as null? For the first I gave very few people as null and for the second there are several people town reading me and nobody voted for me so I don't really understand.

Your Bob read sounds pretty ok.

And as for there being at leat one scum in rdr/ghug/bozo I had already suggested the first 2 and don't dismiss the third so yeah.

[bo_sox48]

This reinforces my scum read of bo_sox. His criticism of damo is not accurate.

You and damo need to get a room where you can seduce each other with vague non-statements all night long.

[Durga]

I don't wanna be seen as tunnelling here but let's just say I'd be shocked if that EoD was town!ghug.

[Vecna]

I don't wanna be seen as tunnelling here but let's just say I'd be shocked if that EoD was town!ghug.

tell me more

[damo666]

@bo I gave a read list already

I don't understand what you mean by 'getting null reads', do you mean I'm giving out null reads or people are reading me as null? For the first I gave very few people as null and for the second there are several people town reading me and nobody voted for me so I don't really understand.

Your Bob read sounds pretty ok.

And as for there being at leat one scum in rdr/ghug/bozo I had already suggested the first 2 and don't dismiss the third so yeah.

Following xpost with bozo I now do dismiss the third

[bozotheclown]

This is where I'm at (and also is a summary for self)

Bis (emc) Emcs last few posts have swung this slot to weak town
Bozo medium town , seems to have gone a bit quiet
Bo unsure, pushing me soo weaktown
Durga beginning to think I was wrong - null+
Flash was townleaning, Vecna has pushed this to null
Fox strong town
Ghug medium strong town
HB the newby card becoming tiresome, 3p?
Rdr medium town (but he's good at seeming that) , treat with caution
Sarah (Chaqa) - insufficient data
Seth obvtown
Summit unsure, weaktown?
TrPrado dunno
Vecna obvtown
Worcej strong opening but not followed up, really dunno
Yoyo hope he flips scum

Updates following EOD2

EMC => probtown
Bozo remains medium town
Bo remains weaktown
Durga => strong town
Flash assume town
Fox still probtown but not quite as strong
Ghug plummets to null at best
HB not Mafia, vague 3p suspicion lingers
rdr down to null at best, scum possibility
Seth beginning to worry a bit about this slot, maybe weaktown rather than null
Summit => medium town
TrPrado => strong town
Vecna still town but slightly less obv
Worcej could be scum
Yoyo (bob) => null

I'd say the 4 remaining scum are within rdr, worcej, ghug, HB, seth, Bob, bo

This assessment is very close to my opinion, and there is certainly nothing "vague" about it despite bo_sox's assertion.

[damo666]

I don't wanna be seen as tunnelling here but let's just say I'd be shocked if that EoD was town!ghug.

Shall we find out?

[bo_sox48]

In hindsight one could make the argument you were trying to strong arm me off of HB and back onto Flash

I was definitely trying to convince you to get back on the wagon. You and I started it, so it was pretty offputting that you decided to simply jump ship seemingly at random. While your explanation of just getting a weird gut feeling about it appeals to me - I've been there - I still don't understand why you got that feeling. Moreover, at that point in time I felt like HB was an attempt to save flash, so why would you get on it? I own my reads, I'm confident in them and I stick by them. Flash was scummy as hell toward me yesterday after I started grilling him, and had I been here in the last 30 minutes I absolutely would have continued trying to convince you to get back on board.

[Durga]

I don't wanna be seen as tunnelling here but let's just say I'd be shocked if that EoD was town!ghug.

tell me more

He generally likes to shake things up EoD and see movement. He definitely takes more of a lead role when he's town. I was actually very shocked to see him not move away from HB, and not aggressively push for HB's kill either.

[bozotheclown]

This reinforces my scum read of bo_sox. His criticism of damo is not accurate.

You and damo need to get a room where you can seduce each other with vague non-statements all night long.

I don't think I am being vague either.

[bo_sox48]

@bo I gave a read list already

I don't understand what you mean by 'getting null reads', do you mean I'm giving out null reads or people are reading me as null? For the first I gave very few people as null and for the second there are several people town reading me and nobody voted for me so I don't really understand.

A read list means nothing to me. Literally nothing. Give me your scumreads, and give me the long version where you empty your mind onto the page so I can decide whether or not you've convinced me.

People are reading you as null for being apathetic and doing nothing. Being apathetic and doing nothing is scummy to me. I don't know why webDip's mafia philosophy seems okay with people that do nothing, but there is a general acceptance toward people that do nothing and I will never like that.