MAFIA LVIII (58) - WITCHFINDER GENERAL - GAME THREAD

[bo_sox48]

On my gut feeling about Yoyo, I have been more confident on my gut reads lately. I got HR last game and Xorxes some games ago, but I just can't convince people, so I am not backtracking on it now.

Here’s another example. “I just can’t convince people” as you sit voting for the lead wagon

[Hamilton Brian]

Seth, with 9 minutes to go until the EoD, you changed your vote from Bis to Unv based on the notion that Bunny was the first to start the Bis wagon. Why did that cause you to take your vote off? Did Bunny offer compelling evidence that the Bis wagon was an appropriate one?

Hamilton making it glaringly obvious that he is not actually reading the game

Interesting point of view. What is the inaccuracy or flaw?

[bo_sox48]

Woohoo! Caught up.

And here he claims he is caught up, yet all he has done is responded a little bit to the last 3 pages of the game with very vapid thoughts.

Claims im latching on to easy votes (not realizing the timing of my vote I bet), and then does it himself. Then does it again with the Worcej statement.

Flash is just trying to fly under the radar by agreeing a bunch with people

Also no other participating whatsoever since. 4 posts and a vote.

##vote Flash

I’m down for some fresh blood, ##VOTE flash

[Foxcastle]

Agree. You should not blindly follow the dead townies, but at least consider his thoughts as you can be sure they are town motivated.

Townies are often killed because their reads are wrong and scum want to crystallize those views. The other side of the coin is that players with good reads are kept around to avoid suspicion that "X was pushing Q hard, therefor Q probably killed X" when Q is scum. So actually, HR's top reads are probably not scum.

Man, Fox, why you just engaging him on that fluff post, instead of calling him out. Also your reasoning is way too fluffy, scum kill players with good reads all the time, because noone ever listens to the dead anyway and its a vote less heading your way.

Why do people townread Rdrivera again?

It's not "reasoning," it's an assertion about how the game goes. Obviously there's no magic way to read NK's, but like I said to Durga, trying to figure out why a player was NK'd can have value for town.

And I don't read rdrivera, so I don't know either.

AKA would you like to vote for Prado with me?


@Prado since you're so fond at harping on people who don't directly answer your questions: you still haven't given me your thoughts on other people.

I really want to vote summit, but I would be fine seeing what happens if TrPrado gets in the running.

##VOTE TRPRADO

You scumread summit's recent posts?

I find him scummy in general. I just woke up and am skimming over what I missed in the night. Are you asking about something specific?

This kind of hedgy vote rings some scum alarm bells.

How is this hedgy? I’m choosing between two options, both of which I’ve been clear about scumreading.

Fox, let me ask you something thats been rubbing me the wrong way a little bit.

You were defending against my push very strongly D1. When I decided to back off, why did you suddenly lose all interest in calling out my bullshit (fypov) arguments?

I backed off and you suddenly acted like I no longer existed. Why?

I found you scummier early on and find you townie now. But before that transition, I deliberately backed off because I was getting sucked into nitpicking at you rather than looking at anything else.

(This is the part where I say, "You know, Vecna, there are other people in this game besides you," and you reply, "bUt i'M tHe oNly OnE tHaT mAtTeRs111")

[Vecna]

Agree. You should not blindly follow the dead townies, but at least consider his thoughts as you can be sure they are town motivated.

Man, I know you did that cutesy thing of appealing to me that my posts have started looking better, but I really do not feel the same way about yours.

Wheres the deep thoughts Rdrivera? Youre so bloody surface level this game. Normally your town game always has you posting my thoughts when im catching up.

Has not happened a single time yet.

I really dont get how people are townreading you for this, but I guess that explains why you always cruise controlled through games when u rolled scum every game.

Is he not always like this. What deep thoughts are you looking for? I'm willing to entertain scum rdr but I haven't seen anything out of the ordinary yet. But maybe it's just getting lost since this is a massive game.

Rdrivera and me just very often approach the game in the same way. When he's town, he usually comments a decent ammount of things that im thinking as well. Here, I feel he's missing that depth, and is just making statements that are meant to generally sound good for the public, without having that actual analytical depth.

Its not a foolproof method, and ive reached the wrong conclusion using this method in the past, but its been correct in predicting his alignment more often than not I feel.

[Vecna]

I would like to think I'm this good, but everyone else would say otherwise ;p

You are quite good, and you love to butter people up to make them feel good about themselves. Its working on Durga already

Who's buttering who?

he started it

[Vecna]

He has not posted since day 1 when he left with 4 hours to go in the phase saying he would offer some analysis soon, so no.

Interesting that Bo is aware of Yoyo's movements, yet has no clue about Chaqas movements, even though he's directly adressing Chaqa in the post prior to this.

Why ask that question of chaqa, bo? Were you under the impression he has actually done/read something at all in this game?

What

That quoted the wrong post, sorry, was meant to quote the one below

Worcej crying about nobody having a reason for voting him seems genuine to me, but he would probably also be genuinely upset at people voting for him as scum too I suppose. Either way I'm leaning town on him.

Yoyo was on my list initially that I can't be bothered to work on at the moment and has done... nothing since? He hasn't posted today or during the night. Seems odd that two of the four wagons that we have right now are on people that haven't actually posted today, but Yoyo at least provided reason to suspect him earlier in the game.

Chaqa and damo, are you voting emc for pressure or for scumminess?

[Chaqa]

Hello boys and girls

A friend invited me to her lakehouse, so I havent been home or really checking the internets, but I'm back now.

Tl'DR on Yoyo wagon?

From a vote count analyis perspective, maybe resolving a BismarckEMC or damo flip to get more outof Day 1 makes sense?

[Foxcastle]

Oh hi Bob, welcome. Please participate more so I can get a good read on you.

I'm not opposed to a flash wagon either. I know it's shitty to keep going after low posters but it's so much easier to hide as scum when you're just not posting.

I'd rather flush out Flash, given that we can surmise that Yoyo's absence wasn't intentional since he had to be subbed out. Yoyo might still have been scum, but let's give Bob a day or two to talk.

[Hamilton Brian]

Welcome Bob; hope to hear plenty from you. We don't want a mis-kill.

[Vecna]

Seth, with 9 minutes to go until the EoD, you changed your vote from Bis to Unv based on the notion that Bunny was the first to start the Bis wagon. Why did that cause you to take your vote off? Did Bunny offer compelling evidence that the Bis wagon was an appropriate one?

Hamilton making it glaringly obvious that he is not actually reading the game

Interesting point of view. What is the inaccuracy or flaw?

He's already answered and philosofied over this very point for quite some time, and quite in depth, with feelings and all.

[Hamilton Brian]

He's already answered and philosofied over this very point for quite some time, and quite in depth, with feelings and all.

He did on D1; I thought I'd follow it more, and he compiled a hell of a couple of posts to dig into it. Enough to convince me to drop the wagon on him.

[Vecna]

Townies are often killed because their reads are wrong and scum want to crystallize those views. The other side of the coin is that players with good reads are kept around to avoid suspicion that "X was pushing Q hard, therefor Q probably killed X" when Q is scum. So actually, HR's top reads are probably not scum.

Man, Fox, why you just engaging him on that fluff post, instead of calling him out. Also your reasoning is way too fluffy, scum kill players with good reads all the time, because noone ever listens to the dead anyway and its a vote less heading your way.

Why do people townread Rdrivera again?

It's not "reasoning," it's an assertion about how the game goes. Obviously there's no magic way to read NK's, but like I said to Durga, trying to figure out why a player was NK'd can have value for town.

And I don't read rdrivera, so I don't know either.

I really want to vote summit, but I would be fine seeing what happens if TrPrado gets in the running.

##VOTE TRPRADO

You scumread summit's recent posts?

I find him scummy in general. I just woke up and am skimming over what I missed in the night. Are you asking about something specific?

How is this hedgy? I’m choosing between two options, both of which I’ve been clear about scumreading.

Fox, let me ask you something thats been rubbing me the wrong way a little bit.

You were defending against my push very strongly D1. When I decided to back off, why did you suddenly lose all interest in calling out my bullshit (fypov) arguments?

I backed off and you suddenly acted like I no longer existed. Why?

I found you scummier early on and find you townie now. But before that transition, I deliberately backed off because I was getting sucked into nitpicking at you rather than looking at anything else.

(This is the part where I say, "You know, Vecna, there are other people in this game besides you," and you reply, "bUt i'M tHe oNly OnE tHaT mAtTeRs111")

You still do that thing where your tone changes quite drastically whenever youre nitpicking or responding at/to someone that is critical of you. Almost like you get moodswings just because someone asks you a question. Yet that critical edge does not seem to come out whenever you think someone is scum.

Distribute that Pezazh equally then. Else I might still feel special

[Foxcastle]

Man, Fox, why you just engaging him on that fluff post, instead of calling him out. Also your reasoning is way too fluffy, scum kill players with good reads all the time, because noone ever listens to the dead anyway and its a vote less heading your way.

Why do people townread Rdrivera again?

It's not "reasoning," it's an assertion about how the game goes. Obviously there's no magic way to read NK's, but like I said to Durga, trying to figure out why a player was NK'd can have value for town.

And I don't read rdrivera, so I don't know either.

You scumread summit's recent posts?

I find him scummy in general. I just woke up and am skimming over what I missed in the night. Are you asking about something specific?

Fox, let me ask you something thats been rubbing me the wrong way a little bit.

You were defending against my push very strongly D1. When I decided to back off, why did you suddenly lose all interest in calling out my bullshit (fypov) arguments?

I backed off and you suddenly acted like I no longer existed. Why?

I found you scummier early on and find you townie now. But before that transition, I deliberately backed off because I was getting sucked into nitpicking at you rather than looking at anything else.

(This is the part where I say, "You know, Vecna, there are other people in this game besides you," and you reply, "bUt i'M tHe oNly OnE tHaT mAtTeRs111")

You still do that thing where your tone changes quite drastically whenever youre nitpicking or responding at/to someone that is critical of you. Almost like you get moodswings just because someone asks you a question. Yet that critical edge does not seem to come out whenever you think someone is scum.

Distribute that Pezazh equally then. Else I might still feel special

I had never thought about it like that, but that makes a lot of sense and I'm pretty confident you could find that duality in all my games. Responding to questions is rooted in clarification and argumentation, and tends to be very specific; theorizing about scum is supposition and intuitive and thinking about many different options; it's very open ended. So I'm probably not going to change, no.

But you could also go look at my push on Worcej and see if you think that meets your standards for "pezazh" and a counterpoint.

[Hamilton Brian]

Tl'DR on Yoyo wagon?

Seems to be based on the D1 interactions and less being inactive.

[BobMcBob]

Okay so the Bunny wagon was kinda awful I have to say, as far as I can tell he was lynched for having a "bad start", going to bed, and then coming back and reacting badly? I mean his start was actually fine IMO, at least his actions. Not a huge fan of the pedantics but it's way too small for it to be worth voting over, especially given he was going to sleep. That's a perfectly acceptable excuse for absence. (Speaking of which, it's 12am here so I'll probably only be around for another couple of hours before I go to sleep and wait to get drawn and quartered). Is there anything I missed in my somewhat brief analysis of the bunny votes?

[bo_sox48]

Interesting that Bo is aware of Yoyo's movements, yet has no clue about Chaqas movements, even though he's directly adressing Chaqa in the post prior to this.

Why ask that question of chaqa, bo? Were you under the impression he has actually done/read something at all in this game?

What

That quoted the wrong post, sorry, was meant to quote the one below

Worcej crying about nobody having a reason for voting him seems genuine to me, but he would probably also be genuinely upset at people voting for him as scum too I suppose. Either way I'm leaning town on him.

Yoyo was on my list initially that I can't be bothered to work on at the moment and has done... nothing since? He hasn't posted today or during the night. Seems odd that two of the four wagons that we have right now are on people that haven't actually posted today, but Yoyo at least provided reason to suspect him earlier in the game.

Chaqa and damo, are you voting emc for pressure or for scumminess?

I don't know what the issue is here or what Yoyo has to do with it. He was on my scumlist the night before where I noted that his last post was one where he promised to do things, and then he left. I knew he hadn't posted since because I, you know, hadn't seen him post since. As for Chaqa, are you asking me why I asked Chaqa why he voted for emc? I asked why he voted for emc because he and damo were voting for emc and I wanted to know why they were voting for emc, with the potential to ask them more questions if I didn't like their responses. Damo's response was fine, and I don't believe Chaqa has ever replied. Both of these answers could have been found with a little bit of use of this vital organ called your brain.

[Hamilton Brian]

From a vote count analyis perspective, maybe resolving a BismarckEMC or damo flip to get more outof Day 1 makes sense?

I'd be interested in either of those. The Damo voters haven't returned yet although I brought attention to it yesterday. Only Bo_ and Durga addressed the question, leaving Vecna and Fox still to respond, unless I missed the reply.

[bo_sox48]

Hello boys and girls

A friend invited me to her lakehouse, so I havent been home or really checking the internets, but I'm back now.

Tl'DR on Yoyo wagon?

From a vote count analyis perspective, maybe resolving a BismarckEMC or damo flip to get more outof Day 1 makes sense?

Yoyo hasn't posted today and just got replaced. His replacement should either get lynched because he's scummy today or he should not get lynched.

Why in the hell would we use day 2 to try and get more info out of day 1, and why would you ask this instead of seeing if you can't find reason to scumread one of the other wagons from day 1?

[Durga]

Hello boys and girls

A friend invited me to her lakehouse, so I havent been home or really checking the internets, but I'm back now.

Tl'DR on Yoyo wagon?

From a vote count analyis perspective, maybe resolving a BismarckEMC or damo flip to get more outof Day 1 makes sense?

Yoyo hasn't posted today and just got replaced. His replacement should either get lynched because he's scummy today or he should not get lynched.

Why in the hell would we use day 2 to try and get more info out of day 1, and why would you ask this instead of seeing if you can't find reason to scumread one of the other wagons from day 1?

This 100%

And I can't shake the feeling that yoyo is scum based on his d1 and his decision to quit the game.