MAFIA LVIII (58) - WITCHFINDER GENERAL - GAME THREAD

[worcej]

Why would he have a good reason to vote for you and the rest of us don't?

What is your reason Durga? You never said one.

Answer mine first

Because he actually has a reason unlike your apparent sheeping.

[seth24c]

Ok so I'm going to try to break this into a couple posts.

The bunny wagon actually started earlier than I think I realized initially, I've read through page 35 and here is what I've found.

ghug is the first on the wagon. I didn't find the vote itself though.

VOTE COUNT 1.3
Vecna (2) - bozotheclown, TrPrado
Damo666 (2) - Vecna, BismarckAlive
BismarckAlive (2) – BunnyGo, damo666
Damo666 (1) – Vecna
Durga (1)) - foxcastle
BunnyGo (1) - ghug

I also believe I win when bunny's team is eliminated.

##vote bunny

I’ll annoy Bunny

##VOTE Bunny

venca referencing bunny's post about town not trying (long so i didn't include).

this is all fake
##vote bunnygo

Not sure where this was in the timeline as I got messed up taking notes but at some point.

Sigh. Ok. I see lots of action. You’re all actioning.

I agree that Damo focusing on the mech is not good. People actively ignoring it so we can’t move on is the same. ##vote bo_ for the same sh*t as last game. And now again in this one.

As the virus who would inevitably have been paying attention to damo's virus speculation D1 last game, how are you scumreading him for similar speculating this game? What's Bo doing that's the same as last game? Why are you so disingenuous this game?

##vote BunnyGo

Bo at a later point changing his vote

Lol okay but really is my dumb f-this-s vote really on the leading wagon? I suck at this game.

##unvote

Bunny asks bo why move his vote.

Why not vote me, bo_? I honestly don’t get why you’re moving.

ghug voting bunny again.

K I have to go to meetings now. ##VOTE Bunny

At this point (less than 10 minutes left) the vote is;
Vote Count 1.10
BismarckAlive (5) Damo, flash,bozo,summit,seth
BunnyGo (4) worcej, vecna, Hellenic Riot,ghug
Damo666 (3) bismarck, bo, durga
Yoyoyozo (2) Prado, rdr
Durga (2) foxy, yoyo
Bo_sox48 (1) Bunnywent,
Unvote (1) Hamilton

At this point I make the unfortunate decision to unvote, then vote for bunny to cause him to be flipped resulting in this final vote count;

BunnyGo (5) - worcej, Vecna, Hellenic Riot, ghug, Seth24c
BismarckAlive (4) - damo666, bozotheclown, summit_fever, Flash2015
damo666 (3) - BismarckAlive, bo_sox48, Durga
Yoyoyozo (3) - TrPrado, rdrivera2005, BunnyGo
Durga (2) - Foxcastle, Yoyoyozo
bo_sox48 (1) - BunnyGo
No‑Kill (1) - Hamilton Brian

During the time I was unvoted, ghug asks;

Why the hell are people voting Bismarck?

This goes along with the additional quotes from earlier in the day asking why people are voting bismarck.

I can't think of a single thing Bismarck has said. Why are three people voting for him?

1597179472 user_id=121]

Damo lurked like fuck last time he was scum, I don't really see how this is remotely comparable

Bismarck is a shite wagon full of people I don't have townreads on, so I'd much rather get Bunny still

##vote bismarck

Why? What is the difference between Bismarck and Sarah?

That's a good point. Why people were against a policy lynch of Sarah, but happily vote Bismarck?

At least we will need only one sub.

Can you remind me of your scum reads and/or town reads? Beyond who has made the statement and who hasn't?

Fox strongest town, yoyo and you least.

???

I can't help but feel like there's been an awful lot of people voting Bismarck for no reason ever since Bunny became a significant wagon
[/quote]

[Durga]

What is your reason Durga? You never said one.

Answer mine first

Because he actually has a reason unlike your apparent sheeping.

So you think he reason is good?????

[worcej]

Answer mine first

Because he actually has a reason unlike your apparent sheeping.

So you think he reason is good?????

It is the best out of any one presented. If you think my defense is scummy, then that is in game and a decision you made yourself.

[worcej]

Now I believe you owe me an answer Durga.

[summit_fever]

No one is here to offer a discussion chance with me, so I guess I cannot really offer more pieces at this moment.

My general comment to Foxcastle's case is he cherry-picked his choices on games to represent me how he wants, not to show an actual portrayal of my personality. There are a couple games where his theory is completely broken and I can only assume he purposely excluded those.

Notable examples:

1. M44, where I was a complete dick/tool and was scum
2. M41, where I was both blunt/not rude and considered one of my best games and was 3P
3. M48 when I was also nice/jokey/non-dick and was a PR

Why were these purposely excluded? Like I said - cherry picking for a stupid case.

In general, if you want to punish me for trying to be nice and not hostile, fine - Go for it. But just be honest that it's a shit case and there are a lot of actual scummy behavior going on in this game.

I think it's unreasonable to expect Fox to not cherrypick when trying to build a historical metacase. When done in good faith this type of argument should have a couple of back and forths as people remember things.

I randomly iso'd worcej on day 1 and found it jarring--100% due to tone. Having read him again it seems like a decent start to the game, barring the 2nd half absence and a vote that I don't like.

I think Fox may be correct in that it's possible no scum were there on the top wagons on day 1. So many semivanity and vanity wagons with very little movement.

I'm going with my favourite of Bozo's silent five.

##vote yoyo

[Hamilton Brian]

Seth, with 9 minutes to go until the EoD, you changed your vote from Bis to Unv based on the notion that Bunny was the first to start the Bis wagon. Why did that cause you to take your vote off? Did Bunny offer compelling evidence that the Bis wagon was an appropriate one?

[ghug]

Although there is a lot going on with worcej as lead wagon right now, I'm going down the rabbit hole with HR's posts. As Bunny said in a previous game, "listen to what the dead say."

In an exchange about the WD visit, Ghug asked HR why they wouldn't visit. HR suggested because if the visit was to mafia, per the stated role description, WD would be killed.

Ghug, are you of the belief that even a N1 visit with a potential WD death is better than no-visit?

Yes

[ghug]

Although there is a lot going on with worcej as lead wagon right now, I'm going down the rabbit hole with HR's posts. As Bunny said in a previous game, "listen to what the dead say."

In an exchange about the WD visit, Ghug asked HR why they wouldn't visit. HR suggested because if the visit was to mafia, per the stated role description, WD would be killed.

Ghug, are you of the belief that even a N1 visit with a potential WD death is better than no-visit?

Also listening to the dead is dumb. By virtue of not having had a chance to invest new information, they know less than we do. Bunny was scum in that game.

[worcej]

Although there is a lot going on with worcej as lead wagon right now, I'm going down the rabbit hole with HR's posts. As Bunny said in a previous game, "listen to what the dead say."

In an exchange about the WD visit, Ghug asked HR why they wouldn't visit. HR suggested because if the visit was to mafia, per the stated role description, WD would be killed.

Ghug, are you of the belief that even a N1 visit with a potential WD death is better than no-visit?

Also listening to the dead is dumb. By virtue of not having had a chance to invest new information, they know less than we do. Bunny was scum in that game.

It isn’t dumb to listen to them. It’s dumb to think they were omniscient and were right without reflecting on new information.

[Hamilton Brian]

Ghug, are you of the belief that even a N1 visit with a potential WD death is better than no-visit?

Yes
[/quote]

Care to elucidate on that? Why is it better than the no-visit?

[ghug]

Ok so I'm going to try to break this into a couple posts.

The bunny wagon actually started earlier than I think I realized initially, I've read through page 35 and here is what I've found.

ghug is the first on the wagon. I didn't find the vote itself though.

VOTE COUNT 1.3
Vecna (2) - bozotheclown, TrPrado
Damo666 (2) - Vecna, BismarckAlive
BismarckAlive (2) – BunnyGo, damo666
Damo666 (1) – Vecna
Durga (1)) - foxcastle
BunnyGo (1) - ghug

I also believe I win when bunny's team is eliminated.

##vote bunny

I’ll annoy Bunny

##VOTE Bunny

venca referencing bunny's post about town not trying (long so i didn't include).

this is all fake
##vote bunnygo

Not sure where this was in the timeline as I got messed up taking notes but at some point.

Sigh. Ok. I see lots of action. You’re all actioning.

I agree that Damo focusing on the mech is not good. People actively ignoring it so we can’t move on is the same. ##vote bo_ for the same sh*t as last game. And now again in this one.

As the virus who would inevitably have been paying attention to damo's virus speculation D1 last game, how are you scumreading him for similar speculating this game? What's Bo doing that's the same as last game? Why are you so disingenuous this game?

##vote BunnyGo

Bo at a later point changing his vote

Lol okay but really is my dumb f-this-s vote really on the leading wagon? I suck at this game.

##unvote

Bunny asks bo why move his vote.

Why not vote me, bo_? I honestly don’t get why you’re moving.

ghug voting bunny again.

K I have to go to meetings now. ##VOTE Bunny

At this point (less than 10 minutes left) the vote is;
Vote Count 1.10
BismarckAlive (5) Damo, flash,bozo,summit,seth
BunnyGo (4) worcej, vecna, Hellenic Riot,ghug
Damo666 (3) bismarck, bo, durga
Yoyoyozo (2) Prado, rdr
Durga (2) foxy, yoyo
Bo_sox48 (1) Bunnywent,
Unvote (1) Hamilton

At this point I make the unfortunate decision to unvote, then vote for bunny to cause him to be flipped resulting in this final vote count;

BunnyGo (5) - worcej, Vecna, Hellenic Riot, ghug, Seth24c
BismarckAlive (4) - damo666, bozotheclown, summit_fever, Flash2015
damo666 (3) - BismarckAlive, bo_sox48, Durga
Yoyoyozo (3) - TrPrado, rdrivera2005, BunnyGo
Durga (2) - Foxcastle, Yoyoyozo
bo_sox48 (1) - BunnyGo
No‑Kill (1) - Hamilton Brian

During the time I was unvoted, ghug asks;

Why the hell are people voting Bismarck?

This goes along with the additional quotes from earlier in the day asking why people are voting bismarck.

I can't think of a single thing Bismarck has said. Why are three people voting for him?

1597179472 user_id=121]

Damo lurked like fuck last time he was scum, I don't really see how this is remotely comparable

Bismarck is a shite wagon full of people I don't have townreads on, so I'd much rather get Bunny still

Why? What is the difference between Bismarck and Sarah?

That's a good point. Why people were against a policy lynch of Sarah, but happily vote Bismarck?

At least we will need only one sub.

Can you remind me of your scum reads and/or town reads? Beyond who has made the statement and who hasn't?

Fox strongest town, yoyo and you least.

???

I can't help but feel like there's been an awful lot of people voting Bismarck for no reason ever since Bunny became a significant wagon

[/quote]

http://mafia.peterlund.se ("The Bot") is a really handy tool for stuff like this.

[Durga]

Now I believe you owe me an answer Durga.

I voted you to see your reaction, actually. I myself get nicer when I'm scum vs when I'm town so Fox's thing made me curious.

[TrPrado]

Do it now.

Why did you briefly vote for worcej D1?

I didn't like any of the wagons at the time. I wanted to see if some movement could be initiated. I'm used to the fervent worcej so I found it a little odd. Apparently I was supposed to throw the kitchen sink into the works though.

You have earned my reprieve

##VOTE YOYO

[seth24c]

In short the only person who really seemed to even make a case for bunny with their vote was HR and now he is dead. The others on the wagon. Myself, ghug, venca, and worcej are obvious scum candidates. I've made my case about my unfortunate thought process for my vote.

I think there is a great change of 1 or 2 scum out of the remaining three.

Venca and ghug as some will remember had an interesting exchange earlier in day 1 where venca asked ghug when they would finally role scum together.

Ghug also distances from venca in this post.

It amazes me that some people actively contemplate posting limits with respect to themselves.

Where I stand now is that I don't really want to kill Durga or Yoyo. The former seems generally townie and is suspicious of me in a way I noticed she wasn't in the last game as scum and I should have pushed more on. I was buying the "Yoyo seems cagey" thing, but he made that really dumb post attacking Durga last night, and I think rabid stupidity is more of a town Yoyo thing. I still like the bunny kill. Bismarck is fine, I guess, but I honestly have no idea why anyone is voting for him.

Other townreads are foxy and damo. I want to townread Vecna but I'm remembering more and more that he's usually scum when I do that. The rest of you are kinda useless.

As well as this post by venca I still don't know what to make of.

anyways bunny, you might actually want to look up proper material to compare if youre town, because its very possible youre currently trying to appeal to a naughty person to convince them.

Can you try this post again? I’m still drinking coffee and can’t make sense of it.

ghug also has this very surprised (may just be his MO but still) reaction to the bunny flip.

Whoops

[TrPrado]

##vote emc

Why?

[summit_fever]

If seth were scum I don't think he'd be trying to build Mt. Everest in the thread. Especially without using the bot.

[seth24c]

http://mafia.peterlund.se ("The Bot") is a really handy tool for stuff like this.

Thanks ghug, never knew that existed. Definitely will try to see if I can learn how to work this.

[ghug]

In short the only person who really seemed to even make a case for bunny with their vote was HR and now he is dead. The others on the wagon. Myself, ghug, venca, and worcej are obvious scum candidates. I've made my case about my unfortunate thought process for my vote.

I think there is a great change of 1 or 2 scum out of the remaining three.

Venca and ghug as some will remember had an interesting exchange earlier in day 1 where venca asked ghug when they would finally role scum together.

Ghug also distances from venca in this post.

It amazes me that some people actively contemplate posting limits with respect to themselves.

Where I stand now is that I don't really want to kill Durga or Yoyo. The former seems generally townie and is suspicious of me in a way I noticed she wasn't in the last game as scum and I should have pushed more on. I was buying the "Yoyo seems cagey" thing, but he made that really dumb post attacking Durga last night, and I think rabid stupidity is more of a town Yoyo thing. I still like the bunny kill. Bismarck is fine, I guess, but I honestly have no idea why anyone is voting for him.

Other townreads are foxy and damo. I want to townread Vecna but I'm remembering more and more that he's usually scum when I do that. The rest of you are kinda useless.

As well as this post by venca I still don't know what to make of.

anyways bunny, you might actually want to look up proper material to compare if youre town, because its very possible youre currently trying to appeal to a naughty person to convince them.

Can you try this post again? I’m still drinking coffee and can’t make sense of it.

ghug also has this very surprised (may just be his MO but still) reaction to the bunny flip.

Whoops

What would you expect scum to have done around EoD yesterday if Bismarck were scum? If he were town?

[ghug]

##vote emc

Why?

Why'd you vote Yoyo?