Kamala Harris Is Biden’s VP Pick

[flash2015]

After over a hundred year of no female PoC (and one male PoC), you now think the problem is that the Dems picked the person they think is most likely to get their candidate elected?

I believe that is called 'the best person for the job'.

Biden starts his selection by instantly ruling out half the US population based on gender, then rules out most of the rest based on race, and you call that "the best person for the job"?

There are times, ora, when you come across as a deep and thoughtful person. This is very much not one of those times.

The Democrats have once again handed their opposition a bucket load of ammunition. She may well have been the best person for the job, but by ruling out most rivals on the basis of racial and sexual discrimination the Democrats have painted a massive target on her back and allowed her to be portrayed as little more than a token.

Token and the Nearly Dead vs Trump.

It's like neither side wants to win. Clinton may have been awful, but at least she looked like she wanted the job

What ammunition do they have from this? Apart from fanning racist nonsense (which has already started), I don't see it.

[flash2015]

Like the birther nonsense for Obama (which was pushed hard by Trump), similar racist nonsense for Harris. A first generation US-born citizen with parents from the UK would not be questioned like this:

https://www.newsweek.com/some-questions ... on-1524483

[cormorant]

Isn't it racist to call Harris a "Token" when in fact she is extremely qualified?

-Senator from the largest and one of the most racially diverse states
-Lifetime of public service and commitment to justice
-Extremely charismatic speaker that can think on her feet
-Motivates key Democratic constituencies that might have been less enthusiastic about Biden alone

[Octavious]

Isn't it racist to call Harris a "Token" when in fact she is extremely qualified?

No.

Next question?

[cormorant]

OK - then can you give an example where "token' has been used as a descriptor for a public figure who is a white man?

[Octavious]

You are trying to make a point here, but I'm not sure what it is. Tokenism can only apply to someone from a minority or underrepresented group, and so can't be applied to white men in US or UK presidential politics. I dare say it is possible in regional US politics where other ethnic groups make up majorities (especially if you're adopting the weird American custom of making Spaniards a different ethnicity), but I don't know much about regional US politics.

[flash2015]

OK - then can you give an example where "token' has been used as a descriptor for a public figure who is a white man?

If Octavious was consistent Pence would be the "token" evangelical. This token nonsense is all racist claptrap. She either is qualified or she isn't. If she isn't Octavious needs to make the case.

[Octavious]

OK - then can you give an example where "token' has been used as a descriptor for a public figure who is a white man?

If Octavious was consistent Pence would be the "token" evangelical. This token nonsense is all racist claptrap. She either is qualified or she isn't. If she isn't make the case.

What’s the obsession with qualifications? The only noteworthy qualifications required for the office is to be over 35 years old, alive, and a Yank. She meets the bar, as do tens of millions of others. The qualifications required for VP are less rigorous than a burger flipper at McDonald's. Pretty much nothing matters as little as whether she is qualified for the role.

[flash2015]

You are right. Barely even passing a basic cognitive test is apparently good enough qualifications for the job. Person, Woman, Man, Camera, TV!

So I don't understand what your problem is then...other than being upset she isn't a white male. The mythical objective "most qualified for the job" process has never existed.

[Octavious]

My problem is that the selection process was overtly sexist and racist. I don't understand how you don't have a problem with that. Do you want to live in a country where you can advertise for a secretary with the words "only young white women need apply"? I thought we'd left that shit behind generations ago.

[cormorant]

Tokenism can only apply to someone from a minority or underrepresented group

And it implies that the person in question is otherwise unqualified. If Biden had tapped Kanye West (as the Republicans are attempting) you might have a point.

Pretty much nothing matters as little as whether she is qualified for the role.

Easy for you to say but some of us have to live in this country. I think how the US 'leadership' is handling COVID blows this idea out of the water.

I don't know much about regional US politics.

It shows, maybe learn something before commenting?

[cormorant]

My problem is that the selection process was overtly sexist and racist

If you are truly concerned about racism and sexism, can you explain how they can be countered without representation?

[Octavious]

And it implies that the person in question is otherwise unqualified. If Biden had tapped Kanye West (as the Republicans are attempting) you might have a point.

As stated previously, if you had bothered reading the previous posts, whether or not you are qualified is uniquely unimportant in elections. Kanye West is equally qualified with Biden's pick, except he had zero chance because he is a man and Biden's selection process was sexist.

Easy for you to say but some of us have to live in this country. I think how the US 'leadership' is handling COVID blows this idea out of the water.

Very easy for me to say as it's true. Covid is utterly irrelevant.

It shows, maybe learn something before commenting?

Ah, the "you're too thick to be allowed an opinion" insult. No debate with the left feels right without it. No doubt I should have wrote a thesis on US regional politics before even daring ti debate with someone as worldly as yourself.

[Octavious]

My problem is that the selection process was overtly sexist and racist

If you are truly concerned about racism and sexism, can you explain how they can be countered without representation?

Look at the last 100 years and spot the massive improvement in racist and sexist attitudes. Look at the UK and note the two female Conservative prime ministers who have achieved their place without any sexist policies that scupper talented women by making look like they needed help from courageous gallant men like yourself. Women do not need you or Biden to play the hero and help the damsels in distress.

[flash2015]

My problem is that the selection process was overtly sexist and racist. I don't understand how you don't have a problem with that. Do you want to live in a country where you can advertise for a secretary with the words "only young white women need apply"? I thought we'd left that shit behind generations ago.

It looks like you don't pay attention, do you? You keep repeating your conclusion without actually paying attention to anything else being written. There have ALWAYS been arbitrary decisions made in choosing a VP. I don't see this as being any different. Just as choosing Pence covered up for all Trump's failings (e.g. multiple marriages, infidelity etc.), choosing Harris is to cover for many of Biden's issues (e.g. 1994 crime bill which disproportionately hit the black community).

If Republicans keep playing the "race card" it will backfire. There are many issues with Harris (I am definitely not a fan) but if they suck up all the air complaining about democrats choosing a black candidate, then these issues won't be raised...and all the racism will energize democratic turnout.

[cormorant]

Look at the UK and note the two female Conservative prime ministers

Trotting out 2 women prime ministers in 300 years of British history and you're accusing Biden of 'tokenism'. Nice!

You are also conflating 'minimum legal requirements' with 'most qualified'. The two things are not the same.

[Octavious]

We shall see. The Democratics have just taken giant strides forward in the march to let employers discriminate on racial and gender grounds. That has long term consequences. They have done the impossible and given Trump the moral high ground. Maybe they might even pull off the election defeat they're dreaming of

[Octavious]

Look at the UK and note the two female Conservative prime ministers

Trotting out 2 women prime ministers in 300 years of British history and you're accusing Biden of 'tokenism'. Nice!

You are also conflating 'minimum legal requirements' with 'most qualified'. The two things are not the same.

Because the 18th and 19th centuries are totally relevant. Don't embarrass yourself with stuff you know is bollocks, kid.

Oh, this should be good. Please provide me with the document where these supposed extra qualifications for VP are written down.

[cormorant]

You don't think history or competence is relevant? That's actually a pretty good summary of current right wing thinking. Thank you!

[Matticus13]

For the record, Octavious made several valid points before this all derailed into the predictable yelling match

The main one being:

- By narrowing the field SOLELY based on race and gender, the Democrats did Kamala (or whomever they had chosen) a disservice, and gave independent voters a reason to dismiss/downplay her appointment.

It's very sad. I used to be a registered Democrat. I am truly happy for Kamala, but the party is damn near beyond repair.