MAFIA LVIII (58) - WITCHFINDER GENERAL - GAME THREAD

[Jamiet99uk]

10 hours and 45 minutes remain in Night One.

[Hamilton Brian]

Good morning. Still about 5 hours from actually being home so posts are short.

Can someone please explain why we are listing who we think the Weak Doctor and Desperado should visit? Is it some quick way of sorting town/scumleans?

[Hamilton Brian]

Oh, and welcome Chaqa and EMC.

[damo666]

Good morning. Still about 5 hours from actually being home so posts are short.

Can someone please explain why we are listing who we think the Weak Doctor and Desperado should visit? Is it some quick way of sorting town/scumleans?

It provides cover in case the roles exist for target visits to be revealed without the PR making themselves obvious, the more participants the greater the cover.

[Vecna]

Time for some catching up

Once you figure it out lmk, I think I use rose coloured glasses with Vecna and I've never played a game with him as scum

Im a reverse Rdrivera. It just doesnt happen.

I don't know what you mean, I have been town many times in a row now (and 3P once). And you are good as scum, that ceasar game is still one of the best scum plays I participate.

Bunny is the biggest wagon and I understand why, but don't want a runway wagon. I don't like the people on Durga wagon.
So let's try another.

##vote Yoyo, just on a feeling that his push on Durga seems so fake.

I would not mind policy killing Sarah too, unless we have a sub ready to join.

Interesting post. Bit on the defensive side, since it replied to something that shouldve been apparent as a joke (since the running gag was for a long time that Rdrivera is always scum). Not sure why he starts to talk about my scumgame being great either.

Guilty conscience?

[Vecna]

Vecna - are you actually scum reading bunny? He's confusing but I didn't get scum vibes so can you explain

And just to respond to this now moot point: I really shouldve unvoted him after that last comment towards him. Shouldve anticipated I would not have time to get back to the game later on.

[Foxcastle]

[snip]

Ok, go back a step and tell me why everybody wanted to save Bunny.

Bunny is the better town player to have around. Tries hard, doesn't give up, and participates. We're going to day 1 him in favour of Bismarck? Baffling.

What information do you think flipping Bismarck would have provided us? I think there is often scum in the lurkers, but Day 1 is important for providing information that can't be got later in the game.

[Foxcastle]

Damo, are you tracking the order in which people complied with the statement?

[Vecna]

I am fine to continue voting for Durga. I think too-cool-for-school Durga (e.g., not reading the setup, not reading the thread, etc) is somewhat scum indicative.

We should not be policy killing SarahK at this point. Day 1 is too important for that, we need a referendum on an actual player who might be scum.

I would potentially vote for Worcej or Ghug over Durga at this point, though. I think Worcej is playing too nicely. Bozo is obviously town to me—he's focusing way too much on small inconsistencies, so he will probably end up tunneling on a townie.

Sort of surprised by this read as well. Did you play with Durga in the more recent games? It seemed a lot more active and involved in this game so far actually. The too cool for school isnt really AI, but theres a lot more buddying going on and she feels more committed so far.

[Vecna]

It amazes me that some people actively contemplate posting limits with respect to themselves.

Where I stand now is that I don't really want to kill Durga or Yoyo. The former seems generally townie and is suspicious of me in a way I noticed she wasn't in the last game as scum and I should have pushed more on. I was buying the "Yoyo seems cagey" thing, but he made that really dumb post attacking Durga last night, and I think rabid stupidity is more of a town Yoyo thing. I still like the bunny kill. Bismarck is fine, I guess, but I honestly have no idea why anyone is voting for him.

Other townreads are foxy and damo. I want to townread Vecna but I'm remembering more and more that he's usually scum when I do that. The rest of you are kinda useless.

This last read is literally stolen from how I always read you, isnt it?

(I do feel like I want to townread you, which also has this annoying knibbling feeling that I should probably 180 on that and harpoon you through the chest)

[Vecna]

Honestly? Bunny was anxious last game. When I ask for a role and GM gives it to me, I want to do well.

I started weak last game. Finished weak too. But had a strong middle.

This game? Meh. If people don’t want to play, I don’t need to be here.

This post of bunny did read pretty genuine though. Note to self to see how people manoevred around his wagon and what reasoning was used.

[Vecna]

Honestly? Bunny was anxious last game. When I ask for a role and GM gives it to me, I want to do well.

I started weak last game. Finished weak too. But had a strong middle.

This game? Meh. If people don’t want to play, I don’t need to be here.

Yeah, it’s that pitying disappointment that’s a new mode for Bunny. He’s usually more optimistic and more positive. More humble but willing to take credit for his victories. I’d expect that post from Normal Bunny to read:

“Honestly? Bunny is always anxious. <something about the challenges of cracking other players’ ways of thinking to solve the game >”

“I started weak last game, but had a strong middle and managed to pull off a nearly impossible win.”

“Why aren’t more people active this game? Why aren’t people playing. Come on everyone! <makes targeted inquiries at three to five people>“

Why the unusual tone?

I can definately see this pov on it though. I wouldnt scumread the slot over it, but it doesnt read scummy at all to wonder about ti.

[Foxcastle]

I am fine to continue voting for Durga. I think too-cool-for-school Durga (e.g., not reading the setup, not reading the thread, etc) is somewhat scum indicative.

We should not be policy killing SarahK at this point. Day 1 is too important for that, we need a referendum on an actual player who might be scum.

I would potentially vote for Worcej or Ghug over Durga at this point, though. I think Worcej is playing too nicely. Bozo is obviously town to me—he's focusing way too much on small inconsistencies, so he will probably end up tunneling on a townie.

Sort of surprised by this read as well. Did you play with Durga in the more recent games? It seemed a lot more active and involved in this game so far actually. The too cool for school isnt really AI, but theres a lot more buddying going on and she feels more committed so far.

I did not play in the most recent game with her, no. I think it's been a good while since she's played before that?

Durga is also looking townier to me as things go on. I would still vote for her over more null reads, but I don't think I'd push her wagon at this point.

When you say a lot more buddying going on, do you mean her buddying or do you mean others trying to buddy her? (I've seen her push back against the latter, but one thing I do remember from prior games is that she's always worried about being buddied.)

[Vecna]

Why do you think he should be when it appears he hasn't read the thread?

I don’t. But I don’t know what he’s thinking. Why not place his vote and leave?

Because I'm not leaving, I'm reading.

Even after all this time, in my mind, Bo, Chaqa and Ghug are all the same player.

[Vecna]

Lol okay but really is my dumb fuck-this-shit vote really on the leading wagon? I suck at this game.

##unvote

Did you know the vote count when you made your vote?

random, out of nowhere, relevance?

[Vecna]

My guess is that it is more common for scum to claim players talking about "mechanics" are pretending to look useful than it is for scum to pretend to look useful by talking about mechanics.

Strongly disagree. In addition to what ghug said in a rather vile way, a lot of the time you won’t find scum involved in those conversations at all. They’ll let town yell at each other about mechanics and quietly mull over which of those folks are PRs.

Nobody being particularly scummy but I have the following observations:
[...]
Yoyo I have the most doubts about. I sense a cageyness about the way he is posting.

Lets push Yoyo together. Why do HR/Seth/HB all seem ok though? How are they better than Bunny for example?

I see a lot of talk about Yoyo and only two votes on him. What’s the case and why is he grabbing people’s attention without actually grabbing their attention?

The Weak Doctor, if there is one, can basically get a cop scan in each night if he can make his reports available without giving himself away. I think the hypo claims would give him the best chance of sharing his reports without getting identified right away, maximizing the number of scans he can perform.

What level of participation would you say
a) is optimal
b) the minimum required
c) will actually happen?

Is this an attempt at crowdfunding your PR reads or just a ridiculously horrible question, damo?

anyways bunny, you might actually want to look up proper material to compare if youre town, because its very possible youre currently trying to appeal to a naughty person to convince them.

I too coach my teammates on day 1.

Do pros of policy-killing outweighs cons? If Sarah is VT, sets us up against the wall right away. Better to look within active players and hope for a good catch? I think so.

Please no, we’re not policying anyone for anything. That shit is so old. "Better to look within active players" is also not a valid strategy, though.

I would potentially vote for Worcej or Ghug over Durga at this point, though. I think Worcej is playing too nicely. Bozo is obviously town to me—he's focusing way too much on small inconsistencies, so he will probably end up tunneling on a townie.

Lol this is humorously accurate

How is worcej playing too nicely? Why is ghug on your list? Why does worcej warrant a vague explanation while ghug does not?

Not really keen on the Bunny wagon, but since I need to make a vote I will vote for one of the non-compliers for now:

##VOTE Bismark

Will we see you before EOD? I have money to kill on over/unders.

Note to self: Bo is the guy that does those huge walls and monologues as scum though. Not quite like Ghug and Chaqa at all (does chaqa do that as well?).

Regardless, these seem like a lot of questions/comments all gummed up in one post, but im not getting that burning desire type of feeling that he's actually caring for the answers.

[Foxcastle]

Worcej, where are you? You've made 1 post in the last 36 hours.

[Vecna]

Could you also answer my question regarding Yoyo? You don't have to make it bold.

actual followup

[Vecna]

I would potentially vote for Worcej or Ghug over Durga at this point, though. I think Worcej is playing too nicely. Bozo is obviously town to me—he's focusing way too much on small inconsistencies, so he will probably end up tunneling on a townie.

Lol this is humorously accurate

How is worcej playing too nicely? Why is ghug on your list? Why does worcej warrant a vague explanation while ghug does not?

In previous games, Worcej has been acerbic and hostile, even agreeing that he's playing like an asshole. In those games, he's been town. In a recent game when he didn't play that way, he was scum who managed to make it to the win in no small part because of his newfound congeniality. It's just 20 posts so far this game, but he hasn't abused or derided anyone enough for me to think it's town-worcej.

Ghug is on my list because I have a hard time reading him (even having just been scum with him), and something says I want to scumread him; while I don't think Vecna is scum, if I'm wrong about that, ghug and Vecna could be scum together and done a cutesy little dance for us all a few pages back. So Worcej gets an explanation because I can point to a general change in behavior; ghug doesn't get an explanation because it's just a gut reaction.

cutesy little dances with your scum partner are dumb as fuck.

[worcej]

[snip]

Ok, go back a step and tell me why everybody wanted to save Bunny.

Bunny is the better town player to have around. Tries hard, doesn't give up, and participates. We're going to day 1 him in favour of Bismarck? Baffling.

What information do you think flipping Bismarck would have provided us? I think there is often scum in the lurkers, but Day 1 is important for providing information that can't be got later in the game.

I think this is the first time I've seen someone actually point out the merits in Bunny's flip.

Could be my shitty reading, but I town Fox for this one.