MAFIA LVIII (58) - WITCHFINDER GENERAL - GAME THREAD

[Foxcastle]

I would potentially vote for Worcej or Ghug over Durga at this point, though. I think Worcej is playing too nicely. Bozo is obviously town to me—he's focusing way too much on small inconsistencies, so he will probably end up tunneling on a townie.

Lol this is humorously accurate

How is worcej playing too nicely? Why is ghug on your list? Why does worcej warrant a vague explanation while ghug does not?

In previous games, Worcej has been acerbic and hostile, even agreeing that he's playing like an asshole. In those games, he's been town. In a recent game when he didn't play that way, he was scum who managed to make it to the win in no small part because of his newfound congeniality. It's just 20 posts so far this game, but he hasn't abused or derided anyone enough for me to think it's town-worcej.

Ghug is on my list because I have a hard time reading him (even having just been scum with him), and something says I want to scumread him; while I don't think Vecna is scum, if I'm wrong about that, ghug and Vecna could be scum together and done a cutesy little dance for us all a few pages back. So Worcej gets an explanation because I can point to a general change in behavior; ghug doesn't get an explanation because it's just a gut reaction.

[SarahK24]

I am here lol
Sorry

[Foxcastle]

Yeah, I would probably move off Durga in favor of worcej if Worcej were a wagon, but I think it's important to keep Durga as a wagon.

[bo_sox48]

In previous games, Worcej has been acerbic and hostile, even agreeing that he's playing like an asshole. In those games, he's been town. In a recent game when he didn't play that way, he was scum who managed to make it to the win in no small part because of his newfound congeniality. It's just 20 posts so far this game, but he hasn't abused or derided anyone enough for me to think it's town-worcej.

The issue I take with that is that it sets up such easy meta for worcej to follow. I don't think anyone legitimately sticks to the exact same meta that we claim to have on them as town or scum every single game; in fact, I can think of very few people who obviously indicate one way or another unintentionally.

What game was super nice worcej? I'm pretty sure he's always nice to me, but that's just because I've made him my minion. He thinks of me what I want him to think of me.

[BunnyGo]

I appreciate the effort you took to go back through my entire wall post, embolden the part you were replying to, and write what you had to say rather than just clipping out what you didn't want.

+1

[Durga]

Yeah, I would probably move off Durga in favor of worcej if Worcej were a wagon, but I think it's important to keep Durga as a wagon.

This is a weird statement. Why is it important?

[ghug]

I would potentially vote for Worcej or Ghug over Durga at this point, though. I think Worcej is playing too nicely. Bozo is obviously town to me—he's focusing way too much on small inconsistencies, so he will probably end up tunneling on a townie.

Lol this is humorously accurate

How is worcej playing too nicely? Why is ghug on your list? Why does worcej warrant a vague explanation while ghug does not?

In previous games, Worcej has been acerbic and hostile, even agreeing that he's playing like an asshole. In those games, he's been town. In a recent game when he didn't play that way, he was scum who managed to make it to the win in no small part because of his newfound congeniality. It's just 20 posts so far this game, but he hasn't abused or derided anyone enough for me to think it's town-worcej.

Ghug is on my list because I have a hard time reading him (even having just been scum with him), and something says I want to scumread him; while I don't think Vecna is scum, if I'm wrong about that, ghug and Vecna could be scum together and done a cutesy little dance for us all a few pages back. So Worcej gets an explanation because I can point to a general change in behavior; ghug doesn't get an explanation because it's just a gut reaction.

Having just been scum with me?

[Durga]

I'm leaning town on Fox too actually. Idk if scum!fox is like I wanna vote durga because I just DO!!!

[Durga]

I can't think of a single thing Bismarck has said. Why are three people voting for him?

[bo_sox48]

I'm leaning town on Fox too actually. Idk if scum!fox is like I wanna vote durga because I just DO!!!

That's exactly what I would think of for scum Fox. That's how he lasted so long last game.

[BunnyGo]

I would potentially vote for Worcej or Ghug over Durga at this point, though. I think Worcej is playing too nicely. Bozo is obviously town to me—he's focusing way too much on small inconsistencies, so he will probably end up tunneling on a townie.

Lol this is humorously accurate

How is worcej playing too nicely? Why is ghug on your list? Why does worcej warrant a vague explanation while ghug does not?

In previous games, Worcej has been acerbic and hostile, even agreeing that he's playing like an asshole. In those games, he's been town. In a recent game when he didn't play that way, he was scum who managed to make it to the win in no small part because of his newfound congeniality. It's just 20 posts so far this game, but he hasn't abused or derided anyone enough for me to think it's town-worcej.

Ghug is on my list because I have a hard time reading him (even having just been scum with him), and something says I want to scumread him; while I don't think Vecna is scum, if I'm wrong about that, ghug and Vecna could be scum together and done a cutesy little dance for us all a few pages back. So Worcej gets an explanation because I can point to a general change in behavior; ghug doesn't get an explanation because it's just a gut reaction.

Fox sums up my Worcej concerns well.

[BunnyGo]

I can't think of a single thing Bismarck has said. Why are three people voting for him?

Because he’s been here. And yet you can’t think of a thing he’s said.

[Foxcastle]

In previous games, Worcej has been acerbic and hostile, even agreeing that he's playing like an asshole. In those games, he's been town. In a recent game when he didn't play that way, he was scum who managed to make it to the win in no small part because of his newfound congeniality. It's just 20 posts so far this game, but he hasn't abused or derided anyone enough for me to think it's town-worcej.

The issue I take with that is that it sets up such easy meta for worcej to follow. I don't think anyone legitimately sticks to the exact same meta that we claim to have on them as town or scum every single game; in fact, I can think of very few people who obviously indicate one way or another unintentionally.

What game was super nice worcej? I'm pretty sure he's always nice to me, but that's just because I've made him my minion. He thinks of me what I want him to think of me.

M1010

[bozotheclown]

Someone who isn't bozo and wants the hypoclaim, how do you handle the fact that 60% of people are just not going to do it?

bozo please stop talking it's better for everyone that way.

The fact that half of the people aren’t going to do it probably includes some of the PRs. If in fact none of the PRs do it, it would be a massive troll on mafia because they’re putting together pieces of a puzzle that don’t exist. The benefit to town is that we don’t really need to know who the PR are until it counts. It scrambles the game for mafia, while having the opportunity to provide town with info. There’s a piece of metagame that I figured out that I can’t say now but will be very useful later on if things go well.

This post feels massively not-mafia motivated though. Could be 3P, but this post feels majorly to go against what the mafia would try to accomplish, and I dont think they would be theorizing this part of the hypo

How does a plan to help keep the PRs hidden seem 3P motivated?

[bo_sox48]

You have "worcej concerns" as well?

Yoyo and worcej are both generating some real interest from people who haven't voted for them.

[bozotheclown]

Definitely not worth the risk imo.

The Weak Doctor, if there is one, can basically get a cop scan in each night if he can make his reports available without giving himself away. I think the hypo claims would give him the best chance of sharing his reports without getting identified right away, maximizing the number of scans he can perform.

What level of participation would you say
a) is optimal
b) the minimum required
c) will actually happen?

100% in optimal, I think 50% is enough to make it worth doing, and I believe we could get 50% or better participation.

[bo_sox48]

In previous games, Worcej has been acerbic and hostile, even agreeing that he's playing like an asshole. In those games, he's been town. In a recent game when he didn't play that way, he was scum who managed to make it to the win in no small part because of his newfound congeniality. It's just 20 posts so far this game, but he hasn't abused or derided anyone enough for me to think it's town-worcej.

The issue I take with that is that it sets up such easy meta for worcej to follow. I don't think anyone legitimately sticks to the exact same meta that we claim to have on them as town or scum every single game; in fact, I can think of very few people who obviously indicate one way or another unintentionally.

What game was super nice worcej? I'm pretty sure he's always nice to me, but that's just because I've made him my minion. He thinks of me what I want him to think of me.

M1010

Lol wasn't that the game where mafia got every PR consecutively and town never hit a single scum member

[bo_sox48]

The Weak Doctor, if there is one, can basically get a cop scan in each night if he can make his reports available without giving himself away. I think the hypo claims would give him the best chance of sharing his reports without getting identified right away, maximizing the number of scans he can perform.

What level of participation would you say
a) is optimal
b) the minimum required
c) will actually happen?

100% in optimal, I think 50% is enough to make it worth doing, and I believe we could get 50% or better participation.

Damo, does this answer your question?

[Foxcastle]

Yeah, I would probably move off Durga in favor of worcej if Worcej were a wagon, but I think it's important to keep Durga as a wagon.

This is a weird statement. Why is it important?

Why is it weird?

It's important because, while I do think that you could very well be scum, in either case where you are or aren't, I think your wagon produces more interesting movement among a player base that has a good proportion of veteran players.

[bozotheclown]

My guess is that it is more common for scum to claim players talking about "mechanics" are pretending to look useful than it is for scum to pretend to look useful by talking about mechanics.

Strongly disagree. In addition to what ghug said in a rather vile way, a lot of the time you won’t find scum involved in those conversations at all. They’ll let town yell at each other about mechanics and quietly mull over which of those folks are PRs.

Lets push Yoyo together. Why do HR/Seth/HB all seem ok though? How are they better than Bunny for example?

I see a lot of talk about Yoyo and only two votes on him. What’s the case and why is he grabbing people’s attention without actually grabbing their attention?

What level of participation would you say
a) is optimal
b) the minimum required
c) will actually happen?

Is this an attempt at crowdfunding your PR reads or just a ridiculously horrible question, damo?

anyways bunny, you might actually want to look up proper material to compare if youre town, because its very possible youre currently trying to appeal to a naughty person to convince them.

I too coach my teammates on day 1.

Do pros of policy-killing outweighs cons? If Sarah is VT, sets us up against the wall right away. Better to look within active players and hope for a good catch? I think so.

Please no, we’re not policying anyone for anything. That shit is so old. "Better to look within active players" is also not a valid strategy, though.

I would potentially vote for Worcej or Ghug over Durga at this point, though. I think Worcej is playing too nicely. Bozo is obviously town to me—he's focusing way too much on small inconsistencies, so he will probably end up tunneling on a townie.

Lol this is humorously accurate

How is worcej playing too nicely? Why is ghug on your list? Why does worcej warrant a vague explanation while ghug does not?

Not really keen on the Bunny wagon, but since I need to make a vote I will vote for one of the non-compliers for now:

##VOTE Bismark

Will we see you before EOD? I have money to kill on over/unders.

I'm trying to ascertain how serious bozo is and see if he thinks it will fly. I am hoping the question will put him off and kill the idea.

I am serious that I think what I suggested about the Desperado and Weak Doctor hypo claims would benefit town if either role exists. I do not see much of a risk to town, mafia is not going to be able to figure out much from the claims considering the roles may not be in the game.