Mafia 57 Matrix

[bo_sox48]

Yeah, if Macca is scum I think it’s pretty reasonable to say he voted ghug for a reason. Could he be scum and not have voted ghug for a reason? Sure. Is the former theanswer that makes the most sense in my head? Yes.

[bo_sox48]

No, it’s not.

You're saying that if he's scum I have to be. Assume I'm town and he's scum. You've claimed that's impossible. Thus, if I'm town, he's town. Proof by fucking restatement. Jesus Christ you're stupid.

What I told Bunny is that if he’s town, you still might be scum. It has no impact if he is town. Therefore no, scum-scum and town-town are not equivalent.

[ghug]

What world do you two live in where me presenting an opinion on something I was asked about out of the blue that I have spent all of five seconds thinking about equates to me claiming it is impossible for it to be any other way?

I know you don't mean it, I'm just impressed by how bad you are at thinking.

[BunnyGo]

What world do you two live in where me presenting an opinion on something I was asked about out of the blue that I have spent all of five seconds thinking about equates to me claiming it is impossible for it to be any other way?

You haven't claimed it's solid. But you suggest both those implications are likely.

You are basically saying that the case where Macca/Temasek is scum and Ghug is Town is unlikely (not impossible)

[BunnyGo]

What world do you two live in where me presenting an opinion on something I was asked about out of the blue that I have spent all of five seconds thinking about equates to me claiming it is impossible for it to be any other way?

You haven't claimed it's solid. But you suggest both those implications are likely.

You are basically saying that the case where Macca/Temasek is scum and Ghug is Town is unlikely (not impossible)

So that if I believe that ghug is town, I shouldn't be looking at Temasek first. And if I believe Temasek is scum, I should take a hard look at ghug.

Unfortunately I believe Temasek is scum AND ghug is town. But you're saying this is unlikely and I should decide which I believe more and reconsider coming back to the other later.

Now I need to decide whether i buy your reasoning about Macca's vote.

[rdrivera2005]

No, it’s not.

You're saying that if he's scum I have to be. Assume I'm town and he's scum. You've claimed that's impossible. Thus, if I'm town, he's town. Proof by fucking restatement. Jesus Christ you're stupid.

This is something I can agree.

[Jamiet99uk]

Jamie, are you going to give anyone an explanation of your read on EMC?

Yes.

[Jamiet99uk]

How about

##VOTE HELLENIC RIOT

Yes.

I’m not opposed to this wagon. But what is the rationale behind this?

You are widely scumread, so I am not alone in my opinions. I am about to go to sleep, but I promise that I will respond to your "riposte", and anything else you wish to say, well before EoD.

Are you trusting others who share your opinions simply based on the fact that they agree with you? I’m accustomed to telling new folks not to trust other people’s opinions, but I’m a bit weirded out by you doing it.

I made it clear that I was posting that as I was about to go to bed (it was about 1am) and I am going to go into detail on HR before EoD.

I have now made promises to explain my scumreads on EMC and HR, and in the near future I shall do so. I have limited time and am recovering from an illness, and am struggling to work as well as participate here. Give me an hour or two.

[Jamiet99uk]

Accuse me of anchoring if you like; I'm doing my best.

[Jamiet99uk]

No, it’s not.

You're saying that if he's scum I have to be. Assume I'm town and he's scum. You've claimed that's impossible. Thus, if I'm town, he's town. Proof by fucking restatement. Jesus Christ you're stupid.

There was a community consensus that cyber-bullying had no place in webDip forum Mafia. Please be kind, Ghug.

[Jamiet99uk]

I believe that this is the "riposte" that HR was demanding I respond to:

I didn't answer because the main reason I townread emc is the fact that a load of shifty people have suddenly flipped to wagonning him near EoD *twice* now. Nobody has ever given a case on him, nobody has ever explained why, and yet the votes have continually rolled up regardless. Half the votes D1 were thanks to a 'misread' and none of them were remotely explained D3. Do you not find all those completely unexplained votes to be suspicious, Jamie?

The people on the late D1 EMC wagon were:

Damo - who you know was town
Flash - who you know was town
Goldfinger - who you are townreading
BunnyGo - who you were townreading yesterday (although he jumped to Flash at the last minute)

and Me.

So who are these "shifty" people on D1? Apparently you must mean me, but who else?

I am no longer inclined to townread Goldie in the way I was before, and I dislike both his unexplained votes there (as he did it again D3) - though I was much more referring to D3 when I talked about the shifty people. Other people who I can see being scum that voted emc without explaining why D3 include rdrivera (who I notice has still yet to explain how he thought I was going soft on TFB D3 - Ever gonna respond to that one?), therul, Hamilton Brian, and ghug.


Indeed your D1 vote where you stated that were voting emc because you don't know why he was allowed to sign up is *still* the best explained case against emc three days later. Does that not strike you as remotely odd or problematic?

It's not perfect, but clearly town is not playing this game anything like perfectly.

I am inclined to agree with Ghug that it's perfectly reasonable to employ a Process of Elimination, to some degree. Outside of egregious scumslips, mechanical things like cop scans, and vote count analysis, there are two other basic ways to try to identify who to [vote for]:

1) Does anything make them stand out as scum?
2) Does anything make them stand out as town?

In some Mafia forums it is commonplace to refer to this as "sorting" your fellow players.

Now, some people put all the focus on (1), but there is just as much validity to (2). Imagine you're one of 10 remaining players, and you can sort the others into 6 townreads and 3 nulls, you should still be voting in your nulls, even if you can't pin them down as scum.

Thus, throughout D1, D2 and the corresponding nights, I saw nothing at all from EMC that screamed town to me. His participation was patchy and when he did participate he seemed flippant and happy and enjoying himself without contributing anything, as far as I can see, to finding scum. Nothing said "town EMC" to me. Then, at the same time, the jumping around of votes at EoD1 looked like EMC being saved, and I still have that suspicion. There are several people I've seen good reasons to townread. EMC is not one of them. Thus he remains in my scumpool.

I will re-read EMC as soon as I can but that's my answer to HR's "riposte".

[Jamiet99uk]

Before I go back to EMC I want to elaborate my suspicions on HR, who is still my vote for today.

[dargorygel]

##GM NOTE
OFFICIAL vote count (with more officiality than the wonderful Bot)

Temasek22 (3) Bunny, Foxy, Theruly
Hellenic Riot (3) Nanook, rdrivera, Jamie
e.m.c^42 (2) Bismarck, Hamilton
rdrivera2005 (2) HR, bo
goldfinger0303 (1) emc
therul (1) Temasek
Foxcastle (1) ghug
ghug (1) TomBomb

At this point, with 7 hours and 51 minutes remaining in the day, goldie is the only non-voter, and everyone has posted… thanks!

[therul]

##GM NOTE
OFFICIAL vote count (with more officiality than the wonderful Bot)

Temasek22 (3) Bunny, Foxy, Theruly
Hellenic Riot (3) Nanook, rdrivera, Jamie
e.m.c^42 (2) Bismarck, Hamilton
rdrivera2005 (2) HR, bo
goldfinger0303 (1) emc
therul (1) Temasek
Foxcastle (1) ghug
ghug (1) TomBomb

At this point, with 7 hours and 51 minutes remaining in the day, goldie is the only non-voter, and everyone has posted… thanks!

##call GM
I give a Public Thumbs Up for each time you mess with my name.

[therul]

Top 4 Town Reads
Bunny
EMC
Jamie
ghug

And I am honestly not 100% sure about Ghug.
These are my tops.

[BunnyGo]

Town reads survey:

Bunny: Bismarck, bo, Ghug, Gold
Ghug: Bunny, bo, Gold, Jamie
Therul: Bunny, EMC, Ghug, Jamie

[Hamilton Brian]

Re: Temasek, I think Foxcastle makes two compelling points. Belief that Macca was scum and activity. Trying to lay considerably low. That could get me to shift from EMC to Temasek.

Do you (anyone reading this post) think the movements around EMC’s wagons were happy accidents?

[therul]

Re: Temasek, I think Foxcastle makes two compelling points. Belief that Macca was scum and activity. Trying to lay considerably low. That could get me to shift from EMC to Temasek.

Do you (anyone reading this post) think the movements around EMC’s wagons were happy accidents?

does Macca == Temasek?

[Tom Bombadil]

Townreads:

Therul
hR
Emc
bunny or bo

[Tom Bombadil]

Also eff it.

I’m back to ##vote Bismarck

Since when does a wagon dissipate like his and him face no heat the next day. He has laid low all night and day. I bet letting scummates push wagons so he can fly under the radar after taking some heat.