Mafia 57 Matrix

[bo_sox48]

I’m almost caught up but I’m going to post this before it becomes too huge of a wall.

##vote e.m.c^42

Let's see the frantic dance begin again around 30-40mins before EoD when this wagon is at about 5 hungry killers. It has been quite entertaining on D1 and D3.

Bismarck: Defending yourself is fine, but outside of that, who do you scumread? Can you help us find scum that are not pushing you?

I already named 4 of my top scumteam (no particular order):

BunnyGo
Hellenic Riot
e.m.c^42
Tom Bombadil

Common to all four is my perception that they have collectively contributed not much to actual scum hunting with evidence, plus the fact that all 4 have been actively moving votes in the last 30mins of each D1 and D4, and each time around that time EMC was a leading wagon.

My 5th is a tossup between Fox, Nanook and therul at this point in time, though given how well organised I think these guys have been, I wouldn't be surprised if they have one deeply buried as a Townie presently.

These are night and day from what I’m used to seeing from Bismarck. Coached, perhaps?

##VOTE Hellenic Riot

Until ghug decides whether he’s CCing or not

Do you think ghug is ccing?

Sorry, I missed basically the entire night phase and last night. I'm just not really online in the evenings anymore since I started telework, and have had some work projects that are taking up my days.

I don't think EMC is scum, and I don't know why people are still trying to policy flip him when Temasek is being out-posted by half a dozen dead players. Macca looked like newbie scum on D1 before bailed, and I think it's likely that Tem is trying to lurk his way past that.

##VOTE TEM

How did Macca look like newbie scum?

In the meantime, ##vote rdrivera for being full of shit at EoD3.

You think I am full of shit or scum or both?

I think you are both, but unfortunately this town and neither the virus have the balls to kill you.

##vote HellenicRiot

This still sounds like more theater to me, and I’d like both of you to be wagons to see more of this dance.

##VOTE rdrivera

[BunnyGo]

@bo does this sound like town!macca's first post to you?

Hello all,

Excited to try this game with you all again, I just have one request.

Please don't make me D1 kill again. I'm not scum this time, and I still don't understand how the last one happened so I might wander into it again.

Lastly. At first glance, the one who seems the most scummy is ghug (sorry).

##VOTE ghug

[bo_sox48]

@Ghug: Can you be clear about whether you were roleblocked or not?

Do you want a Nanook [redacted] today, since you called him a liar?

I have not been roleblocked recently. I do not want to redact Nanook today.

Have you been roleblocked not recently?

What was the use of countering without really countering?

What's finally pushed you over the edge?

I don’t know. I don’t know who to vote. Nothing you’ve done has seemed towny. I don’t like emc or HR wagons. The Foxcastle push seems a little like low hanging fruit. Nobody has voted you the entire game. Or even suspected you really, which is weird since it’s not like you’ve been obvtowning at all.

(Also, I like the idea of the personal satisfaction of potentially being able to say I was the only one who was onto you)

Tom, I'm going to answer your question directly in a bit, but this is why you've been dropping in my town reads. Besides Bunny, ghug has probably done the single most scum-hunting in the game. He looks for a lot of reaction tests (which is what I'm reading a lot of his sarcasm as) and while he's not doing vote count analysis, he's doing a lot of behavioral analyzing. I'm not sure how that's been going over your head, but he and Bunny are the two obvtown in this game, in my books.

What sort of scumhunting and analysis has ghug been doing lately?

How about

##VOTE HELLENIC RIOT

Yes.

I’m not opposed to this wagon. But what is the rationale behind this?

You are widely scumread, so I am not alone in my opinions. I am about to go to sleep, but I promise that I will respond to your "riposte", and anything else you wish to say, well before EoD.

Are you trusting others who share your opinions simply based on the fact that they agree with you? I’m accustomed to telling new folks not to trust other people’s opinions, but I’m a bit weirded out by you doing it.

Real pain in the ass in the non-wifi/LTE/3G area. Can’t even find someone with a cable connection. So, on phone, Bot>Notes>forum>notes is tedious. Just some thoughts as I still stay on the EMC wagon:

Interesting dynamic between HR and RDR. I’ll go back though both their arguments. Nanook was on there early as well.

How long will the Temasek wagon have traction?

I thought Jamie was fully on board with an emc wagon. I’ll check the posts to trace the argument.

I still think there’s value in running emc, gold, and bunny as tie wagons and see how EOD goes. HR makes solid claims at NOT wagoning EMC, but I’m not wholly sold on HR’s township yet.

What is your rationale for continuing to push emc/Bunny/gold as a trio without any momentum? If you’re not sold on HR, how do you feel about rdrivera?

Do you interpret Jamie's actions as scum motivated or just bad town play HR?

I think the way he pushed on me earlier and then ignored the fact that I'd responded was very disingenuous, so I'm inclined to lean scum on him there, yes.

Are you paying attention to anything that doesn't have to do with you?

heh

[bo_sox48]

@bo does this sound like town!macca's first post to you?

Hello all,

Excited to try this game with you all again, I just have one request.

Please don't make me D1 kill again. I'm not scum this time, and I still don't understand how the last one happened so I might wander into it again.

Lastly. At first glance, the one who seems the most scummy is ghug (sorry).

##VOTE ghug

Am I supposed to guess whether this is his first post or something? Do I get an opinion on the matter?

[BunnyGo]

@bo does this sound like town!macca's first post to you?

Hello all,

Excited to try this game with you all again, I just have one request.

Please don't make me D1 kill again. I'm not scum this time, and I still don't understand how the last one happened so I might wander into it again.

Lastly. At first glance, the one who seems the most scummy is ghug (sorry).

##VOTE ghug

Am I supposed to guess whether this is his first post or something? Do I get an opinion on the matter?

It was his first post of the game. Does it sound like he's town?

[BunnyGo]

OK. Worcej needs a eulogy. My two questions going in:

Why did scum roleblock him in the first place?
What were his reads and pushes? (LISTEN TO THE DEAD!!!)

[bo_sox48]

@bo does this sound like town!macca's first post to you?

Am I supposed to guess whether this is his first post or something? Do I get an opinion on the matter?

It was his first post of the game. Does it sound like he's town?

Okay so you're not asking if it sounds like his first post. Gotcha. Because it does, since, you know, it is.

That post sounds like someone who has no idea how to play, and looking at it in context instead of out of context makes me very confident that that is the case. When ghug asks him one post later why he scumreads/votes for him, he cites "the chaos I guess?" and very clearly says that he doesn't really know what's going on and doesn't have any confidence in himself. I believe that. That post is totally NAI in my eyes, but if his replacement (Tem, I think?) is scum ghug is a teammate without question.

[Hamilton Brian]

@bo...what’s your read on RDR? I have them as a tow lean. Not strong but there’s nothing that makes me want to run them as scum.

Assert my emc-gold-bunny trio is all vote material. Open to alternate thoughts.

[BunnyGo]

There once lived a player named Worcej. He's no longer with us in the matrix. But he left us his words and memories. He started off with an absurd number of shitposts. All just the word "Yes".

Then he lost a measuring contest with me.

wonders if Gold's thinking about the virus is scummy, since only scum should be worried.

He agrees with Damon that Jamie seems towny.

Ah...now we get to why he was RBd. I think he went on a little long about how we shouldn't discuss the virus and NEB coordinating in public.

His EOD post shouldn't be paraphrased. It should live on:

Reviewing EOD1, I find the flash execution to be another ‘out of nowhere dumb D1’ death by dumb people.

My thoughts on the votes that made him die:

Bunny – looks borderline simply because the move has no real substance behind it. There was a lot more content from him regarding EMC than flash, so the last second move to not ‘Execute Order 66’ emc was weird. His reasoning on first post of N1 is kinda poop and he’s doubled down on it: good job getting movement when you moved to EMC with 5 minutes left and the voting pattern indicated people were saving damo, but your ‘blaster firing’ of flash was because you wanted it to happen and nothing more. If you thought you did a good deed by making movement happen, you should’ve pushed Damo up to 5 instead of flash.

HR – his move enabled Bunny’s deciding vote over EMC. He at least voiced he didn’t like the EMC wagon and put his vote on one of the top other options. Curious why he chose Flash over damo if he didn’t like the EMC wagon… That should be explored.

EMC – moved to flash when summit was the main wagon (that he was also on). The move doesn’t strike me as self-preservation motivated. The reasoning was, as mentioned, because summit pinged him as not!town instead of scummy, so why flash then? I only see a mention of agreeing with Jamie’s opinion but that’s it. I don’t like his move personally or his reasons.

Summit – Actually articulates opinions on why he picks flash over the other available options (bunny and damo). I do like how he questions why EMC ‘let him off the hook’, it did seem kinda out of the air.

Tom – took bozo’s reasoning and agreed with it, parked a vote. Content with the flip or was busy. Cannot prove either, but he was only the 2nd vote on him with over 2 hours left of the day.

In summary of the Flash wagon: I don’t like Bunny’s defense when you analyze what movement actually happened. If scum were moving, it was to save damo yet he didn’t go that direction. HR enabled bunny, but I highly doubt they are scum together. EMC didn't self save and didn't really explain flash well enough or why he was more scum than a 'not!town' summit...

In day 2, he seems to quickly understand and believe damo. This probably furthered the scum belief he was a mason.

His final post...<snif>

yeah I feel pretty good about Bunny being scum

Who would you paint as scum with him?

[BunnyGo]

but if his replacement (Tem, I think?) is scum ghug is a teammate without question.

Umm..why?

And does that mean then you believe:

town!ghug implies town!Macca/Tem?

[BunnyGo]

tldr; the eulogy

Scum probably RBd him because he protested about Gold talking about the virus and NEB in public too much.

They probably believed he was a mason too (but this no longer mattered when they killed him)

He seemed to scumread me. And HR. For EOD1 shenanigans.

He townread Jamie and others.

[bo_sox48]

but if his replacement (Tem, I think?) is scum ghug is a teammate without question.

Umm..why?

And does that mean then you believe:

town!ghug implies town!Macca/Tem?

No, it does not mean that, although I have a slight townread of ghug. I mean that if Macca was scum, and if he was as unsure/incapable as he clearly himself believed he was, and had daychat, he would have heard about "bussing" and know its definition but not know how to properly do it. Ergo, he would seemingly randomly vote a teammate, because someone in daychat said that that was good to do from time to time and he didn't understand the complexities of that declaration. If Macca was town, his vote for ghug has basically no bearing on anything because he didn't have any teammates to mention bussing and put that thought in his head.

[bo_sox48]

@bo...what’s your read on RDR? I have them as a tow lean. Not strong but there’s nothing that makes me want to run them as scum.

Assert my emc-gold-bunny trio is all vote material. Open to alternate thoughts.

My read on rdr is that he's scum given that I'm voting for him. I see his back and forth with HR as theatrics, and I scumread them both at present. I want them out in the open with one another so that we can all interact with them and either affirm or reject that suspicion of mine.

I have a strong townread on Bunny and a decent townread on gold, so I don't really think they're all scum. That's my alternate thought. I don't know why you think what you do, which either means I'm a lazy bastard and won't go back and read your actual analysis on the three of them or you're not doing a great job convincing me of your views. Or both.

[BunnyGo]

but if his replacement (Tem, I think?) is scum ghug is a teammate without question.

Umm..why?

And does that mean then you believe:

town!ghug implies town!Macca/Tem?

No, it does not mean that, although I have a slight townread of ghug. I mean that if Macca was scum, and if he was as unsure/incapable as he clearly himself believed he was, and had daychat, he would have heard about "bussing" and know its definition but not know how to properly do it. Ergo, he would seemingly randomly vote a teammate, because someone in daychat said that that was good to do from time to time and he didn't understand the complexities of that declaration. If Macca was town, his vote for ghug has basically no bearing on anything because he didn't have any teammates to mention bussing and put that thought in his head.

OK, so you're saying:

If Macca is scum then ghug must be scum

This is equivalent to

if ghug is town the Macca must be town.

[bo_sox48]

No, it’s not.

[BunnyGo]

No, it’s not.

Explain. How could Ghug be town and Macca scum?

[bo_sox48]

I never said that, Bunny, and that is not what you said either. You said scum-scum is equivalent to town-town, where I said that if Macca is town it has no bearing on ghug’s alignment. Likewise, I’m not ascribing 100% certainty to anything. I am theorizing with confidence that if Macca is scum, his seemingly out of the blue, random, and irrational vote that he cannot justify is probably a sad attempt at a bus. It is theoretically possible that he is scum and just... did that, for some reason, and ghug is town. I don’t think that is likely, so I therefore speak in absolutes because I’m never wrong about anything.

[ghug]

No, it’s not.

You're saying that if he's scum I have to be. Assume I'm town and he's scum. You've claimed that's impossible. Thus, if I'm town, he's town. Proof by fucking restatement. Jesus Christ you're stupid.

[bo_sox48]

I never said that, Bunny, and that is not what you said either. You said scum-scum is equivalent to town-town, where I said that if Macca is town it has no bearing on ghug’s alignment. Likewise, I’m not ascribing 100% certainty to anything. I am theorizing with confidence that if Macca is scum, his seemingly out of the blue, random, and irrational vote that he cannot justify is probably a sad attempt at a bus. It is theoretically possible that he is scum and just... did that, for some reason, and ghug is town. I don’t think that is likely, so I therefore speak in absolutes because I’m never wrong about anything.

“Not ascribing 100% certainty to anything”

[bo_sox48]

What world do you two live in where me presenting an opinion on something I was asked about out of the blue that I have spent all of five seconds thinking about equates to me claiming it is impossible for it to be any other way?