Mafia 57 Matrix

[BunnyGo]

e.m.c^42

e.m.c^42

e.m.c^42

[TheFlyingBoat]

In terms of today, this new activity from TFB has a recurring pattern. Of his six scumreads he's given today, five of them have been justified by "voting behaviour". Ok, cool.


But at no point have *any* of those apparently scummy voting behaviours actually been explained. It's just a catch-all term to avoid further needling. So TFB, can you explain what's so bad about the voting behaviour of Bunny, Myself, emc, rdrivera, and Bismarck? Because tarring ~1/3 of all the remaining players as scum based on 'voting behaviour' that you never delve into is pretty damn lightweight. What exactly is so bad about all our votes? Where is the analysis that makes these votes bad but other people's votes good? It certainly isn't just based on timing of votes at EoD because there's a lot of other people who voted around then who are not on said scumreads.

I mean ~1/3 of all remaining players is scum, so it stands to reason that I tar ~1/3 of all remaining players.

Obviously, most of it is based on voting behavior as today is the only real day of discussion following revelation of identities by the GM/mechs as D1 is D1 and D2 was a hammer on the miller.

The Bunny/EMC duo is the most obvious. A flip from one wagon to another to ensure one dies and the other lives as the last vote before EOD is highly suspect sans strong reasoning. To flip after having flipped five minutes earlier is even more suspect. My thought is that Bunny assumed with five minutes to go one of damo/flash dying was guaranteed. After all, at the time emc only had Jamie's vote on him. It wouldn't be a lone wagon that would draw much suspicion and would allow him to drop a meaningless vote on a non-townie (aka fellow scum) on D1. Unfortunately for him things turned awry very, very quickly as within the span of a minute or so three votes come flying in on him, turning emc from not even in the top 4 that show up in the bot to suddenly being tied for the primary town target. One more minute later and ghug switching off damo to sum makes emc the sole primary target of the town. Bunny switches his vote to save his fellow scum mate.

That leaves three.

After writing why I thought you were scum, I realized that if I assume Tom is scum based on his defense of you that would make 4 scum votes on flash which doesn't make much sense to me. I'll have to revisit this one. I think there are likely 2 and at most 3 on Flash's wagon so I'll need to rethink if you two are tied at the hip and if either of you are scum.

As for rdr/Bis, my view is that one scum was likely on this wagon. With two town by PoE one of those two had to be scum if the assumption holds. It's not guaranteed but I think it's reasonable to believe that at least one scum was on what was the largest wagon against a townie until 4 minutes before end.

I'll probably look at summit's wagon and see if I think anyone is scum there for a new read.

[BunnyGo]

@TFB so your read ok me is assuming EMC is scum?

Also, what evidence has shown that my theories are wrong?

[BunnyGo]

@TFB so your read on me is assuming EMC is scum?

Also, what evidence has shown that my theories are wrong?

Unautocorrected

[goldfinger0303]

rdrivera, HB - you may want to get off emc if he's about to be mod-killed. If he shows up, I'll hop right on a wagon, but until then votes on him will provide no info in future days, and be useless today.

Sorry, quick break during work. Will try to do some meaningful analysis later.

[damo666]

pigeons have cat insert

##vote emc

[BunnyGo]

rdrivera, HB - you may want to get off emc if he's about to be mod-killed. If he shows up, I'll hop right on a wagon, but until then votes on him will provide no info in future days, and be useless today.

Sorry, quick break during work. Will try to do some meaningful analysis later.

Yeah, isn’t voting EMC like voting nokill?

[damo666]

He'll turn up

[TheFlyingBoat]

@ghug do you understand what TFB is saying about shown to be inaccurate?

To clarify if isn't clear I'm saying it's been shown that this virus at the very least seems convinced his best bet isn't coordinating with us which makes sense to me and I'm not convinced attempting to invite the virus on to the NEB was ever to our advantage. I find this pushing for the masons to find and invite the virus to be scummy considering how counterproductive it would be. Granted that's not enough alone as this set-up can confuse people. Combined with the voting behavior on Day 1 (pretty much enough for me to view you as scum alone) and the fact you seem to have tried to analyze the set-up heavily I'm pretty convinced you are scum.

Why do you assume the virus hasn't been targeting their (or the neb folks') scumreads?

That...is something I didn't consider. I'll blame on that on being tired at 1 am. But did anyone ever have any scum reads on Worcej? You were the lone vote on Chaqa Day 2, but I don't think you ever mentioned any reason to view him as scum other than when you mentioned if you died to assume you were fear killed by an oldie like Chaqa or Bo. Other than that I don't remember any scum reads on him either. Do you remember any other scum reads on Chaqa or Worcej?

[BunnyGo]

To clarify if isn't clear I'm saying it's been shown that this virus at the very least seems convinced his best bet isn't coordinating with us which makes sense to me and I'm not convinced attempting to invite the virus on to the NEB was ever to our advantage. I find this pushing for the masons to find and invite the virus to be scummy considering how counterproductive it would be. Granted that's not enough alone as this set-up can confuse people. Combined with the voting behavior on Day 1 (pretty much enough for me to view you as scum alone) and the fact you seem to have tried to analyze the set-up heavily I'm pretty convinced you are scum.

Why do you assume the virus hasn't been targeting their (or the neb folks') scumreads?

That...is something I didn't consider. I'll blame on that on being tired at 1 am. But did anyone ever have any scum reads on Worcej? You were the lone vote on Chaqa Day 2, but I don't think you ever mentioned any reason to view him as scum other than when you mentioned if you died to assume you were fear killed by an oldie like Chaqa or Bo. Other than that I don't remember any scum reads on him either. Do you remember any other scum reads on Chaqa or Worcej?

If this many town are this dumb we should forfeit. The game is unwinnable.

[ghug]

To clarify if isn't clear I'm saying it's been shown that this virus at the very least seems convinced his best bet isn't coordinating with us which makes sense to me and I'm not convinced attempting to invite the virus on to the NEB was ever to our advantage. I find this pushing for the masons to find and invite the virus to be scummy considering how counterproductive it would be. Granted that's not enough alone as this set-up can confuse people. Combined with the voting behavior on Day 1 (pretty much enough for me to view you as scum alone) and the fact you seem to have tried to analyze the set-up heavily I'm pretty convinced you are scum.

Why do you assume the virus hasn't been targeting their (or the neb folks') scumreads?

That...is something I didn't consider. I'll blame on that on being tired at 1 am. But did anyone ever have any scum reads on Worcej? You were the lone vote on Chaqa Day 2, but I don't think you ever mentioned any reason to view him as scum other than when you mentioned if you died to assume you were fear killed by an oldie like Chaqa or Bo. Other than that I don't remember any scum reads on him either. Do you remember any other scum reads on Chaqa or Worcej?

I'm assuming the mafia killed worcej since they also roleblocked him. Chaqa was useless and not townread by anyone, which is a sensible vig kill.

My internet situation is problematic right now. ##vote emc just to annoy gold (and also because I would like to daykill him if I can't have Fox)

[rdrivera2005]

rdrivera, HB - you may want to get off emc if he's about to be mod-killed. If he shows up, I'll hop right on a wagon, but until then votes on him will provide no info in future days, and be useless today.

Sorry, quick break during work. Will try to do some meaningful analysis later.

No. He can easily came back, post twice and a vote and escape the lynch. Closer to EOD I can reconsider, but now I think a wagon on him is a good thing.

[goldfinger0303]

To clarify if isn't clear I'm saying it's been shown that this virus at the very least seems convinced his best bet isn't coordinating with us which makes sense to me and I'm not convinced attempting to invite the virus on to the NEB was ever to our advantage. I find this pushing for the masons to find and invite the virus to be scummy considering how counterproductive it would be. Granted that's not enough alone as this set-up can confuse people. Combined with the voting behavior on Day 1 (pretty much enough for me to view you as scum alone) and the fact you seem to have tried to analyze the set-up heavily I'm pretty convinced you are scum.

Why do you assume the virus hasn't been targeting their (or the neb folks') scumreads?

That...is something I didn't consider. I'll blame on that on being tired at 1 am. But did anyone ever have any scum reads on Worcej? You were the lone vote on Chaqa Day 2, but I don't think you ever mentioned any reason to view him as scum other than when you mentioned if you died to assume you were fear killed by an oldie like Chaqa or Bo. Other than that I don't remember any scum reads on him either. Do you remember any other scum reads on Chaqa or Worcej?

I'm sorry, is TFB fishing for who's on the Neb?

[BunnyGo]

Why do you assume the virus hasn't been targeting their (or the neb folks') scumreads?

That...is something I didn't consider. I'll blame on that on being tired at 1 am. But did anyone ever have any scum reads on Worcej? You were the lone vote on Chaqa Day 2, but I don't think you ever mentioned any reason to view him as scum other than when you mentioned if you died to assume you were fear killed by an oldie like Chaqa or Bo. Other than that I don't remember any scum reads on him either. Do you remember any other scum reads on Chaqa or Worcej?

I'm sorry, is TFB fishing for who's on the Neb?

Either that or he’s softing that he’s on the NEB. Either way I don’t believe it. No reason to soft NEB.

[TheFlyingBoat]

Why do you assume the virus hasn't been targeting their (or the neb folks') scumreads?

That...is something I didn't consider. I'll blame on that on being tired at 1 am. But did anyone ever have any scum reads on Worcej? You were the lone vote on Chaqa Day 2, but I don't think you ever mentioned any reason to view him as scum other than when you mentioned if you died to assume you were fear killed by an oldie like Chaqa or Bo. Other than that I don't remember any scum reads on him either. Do you remember any other scum reads on Chaqa or Worcej?

I'm sorry, is TFB fishing for who's on the Neb?

How is that fishing for the Neb? It's just an admission of a significant oversight last night (real time night), a bit of laziness, and fishing to see if Ghug might be the virus (trying to combine any info I got with posts he made previously thanking the virus for giving more info on the D1 wagons by killing summit)

[Jamiet99uk]

I'm happy with a Nanook or EMC lynch today.

I am not persuaded that Bismarck is scum.

[BunnyGo]

@TFB you’ve still only asserted that it’s clear I was wrong about strategy for town and virus. And that evidence has shown it. What evidence?

[BunnyGo]

I'm happy with a Nanook or EMC lynch today.

I am not persuaded that Bismarck is scum.

Agreed. I’m happy with TFB at the moment too.

[therul]

So you don’t buy the townslip by therul?

I am not used to being told that you were blocked when you don't have a role to block. You would not know you were blocked. It does not make sense to me.
But as he is dead, I ma a dolt. :D

[Jamiet99uk]

@TFB you’ve still only asserted that it’s clear I was wrong about strategy for town and virus. And that evidence has shown it. What evidence?

This circular argument you are having is becoming very tedious.