Mafia 57 Matrix

[worcej]

So we're discussing whether the best strategy for Town is to ally with the Virus, help them to win, whilst also using the Virus to take shots at scum?

Sounds interesting.

Somebody may have already said this, but it didn't need to be discussed based on my understanding of the roles. Let the PR's and virus sort it out themselves.

I'm not sure about leaving it to the PRs and virus—or rather, I think it can be discussed generally, and if we have some kind of structure in place, that's actually more constraining to scum. I think refusing to discuss it sets town up to tear itself apart when those on the ship are trying to control the game in spite of those who are frustrated since they aren't sure what's going on because they aren't on the ship. I have not thought all the way through this and have no experience with mason mechanics, but what's the risk that at some point in the mid-game that the PRs have to out themselves to prevent uninitiated townies from derailing their plan?

I am not saying it could not be discussed, but to me it didn't need to be discussed. Goldie's post when bringing it up was rather early into the game and also wanting to move out of the 'joke phase' rather quickly. My 'there is an agenda to this' antenna was perked.

Again, from my perspective, scum should want that conversation to be more open so they understand what is happening and how they need to adjust their strategy.

As town, and as someone who usually hates mass claims for a similar reason, I am much more inclined to trust the PRs to play well and be a thorn in the side of the scum team without unnecessary exposure of their powers.

[Nanook]

##vote Hamilton Brian


Feel like pretty much every read HB has given throughout the game has immediately been qualified by 'pretty weak' or 'might be wrong', and despite being called out for hedging earlier he's carried on regardless.


Other things of note:

- Jamie trying to PR read into RHK & ghug's jokeposts is 10x worse than the original posts were

- Not sure I really like BunnyGo's explanation for why he didn't complain about my layered plan last game given the level to which it wound xorxes up, and the fact that I don't recall Bunny commenting on it at all at the time. Not really enough to push on, but enough to make me wary of him here.

- For such an apparently experienced player, I'm a bit confused about how 90% of Nanook's posts have been about spreadsheets & meta and how essentially none of them have actually appeared to be geared toward finding the scum.

- Like Tom Bombadil's quickness to put therul on the townshelf

- Don't agree with damo being townread for 3P analysis, because whether or not it has any merit, coming up with mech solutions is by far the easiest way for scum to fake being townie.

- Similar to above, pretty much every post from BismarckAlive has either been about art auctions or what the virus should or shouldn't do, without anything looking like actual scumhunting. Another person to watch carefully.

It’s ok, it confuses a lot of people

And yet I’m still a better player than you

I suppose it's possible we've played together elsewhere if you've played across as many sites as you implied, but poking at my ego is unlikely to make me think you're doing anything helpful and therefore that you are town.


Regardless though, BismarckAlive has continued to do nothing except discuss mechanics & the third party, and is now voting someone based solely on that as well. He's an excellent vote. ##vote BismarckAlive

I recognize your name but I think it’s from Fatmo talking about diplomacy? Not sure.

At any rate that was an attempt at a joke, my reads are very likely =rand in a game full of people that I’ve never played mafia with before and am too busy to significantly research

[therul]

Hey Therul, why did you vote for Jamiet, vote for BunnyGo (on the basis that his vote for EMC was 'looking for an easy target') and then explicitly sheep both of them onto EMC?

I think BunnyGo and Jamiet's votes on EMC are NAI, even though they're anti-town. If they were scum, it'd be an easy place to park for the Day 1. Since Therul is new, I was kinda assuming that his vote there was more likely to make him town, but I find the inconsistency weird.

Only two who I feel are town. So I piled on with them.
But now that I am caught up, I need to get back to work, and think about what I know.
##unvote

But you had been voting for them before that.

That is how you play the game. You get people talking. I use voting for people helpful, or have you not played before?
##vote Foxcastle

[worcej]

@Bunny - what do you say to the idea that the people in the Neb should deliberately red pill the 3rd party either tonight or tomorrow night. The 3rd party then acts as a town-directed NK, under threat of the anti-virus going off. Maf will have to direct all their efforts at finding the third party. Since town doesn't lose when the third party wins - and they have to be lynched to win - why not co-opt them into an infinite, unkillable vig shot?

This line of thinking, at a gut level, leads me more to think gold is scum than town.

I would expect Scum to be more concerned of the virus than town is right now.

Ah this is hilarious.

Yes, "Let's save the virus quickly so he becomes unkillable by mafia and town can use him as a repeat vig shot" is totally scum-indicative.

Scum points for you and anyone else who seek to downplay that idea.

Defensive, are we?

Spin it how you want: the conversation didn't need to happen in an open setting this early. It's pretty obvious the 3P wants to work with the town to accomplish its win - 2/3 of its win conditions needs the town to cooperate.

[therul]

What is NAI?
I have seen it used but don't know what it means.

[Foxcastle]

My first post to you said basically "I don't know your power, claim it, demonstrate it, and I'll respond with a handshake signal to you."

Granted, your response to me was much better than when I did it with Vaporwave.

Can we just agree that you're both pretty and that we don't need to get the micrometers out, so we can get on with this game?

Sure thing. What are your thoughts re: Maccasek?

I wasn't in the game with him when he was voted out day 1, so I'm encountering him for the first time. He does look kinda scummy here, although there's not much to go on. Like, voting ghug because he's sewing chaos is something I think a newbie scum could do in trying to find a way to participate by latching onto unusual behavior as a basis to vote. I think it's unlikely that if Macc/Tem is scum that Ghugh is scum, since I don't think a newbie scum would be that bold; although I'm a little surprised that ghug didn't pillory Macc a little bit more for his vote, though. (Ghug's reply reminds me a bit of when I was newbie scum with him.)

[Nanook]

What is NAI?
I have seen it used but don't know what it means.

Not Alignment Indicative

[goldfinger0303]

NAI is non-alignment indicative.

Spin it however you want, worcej, but moving from dick jokes to a substantive discussion is always a positive move in my eyes. And having no idea if our PRs had even read the setup (as many here clearly didn't) I wanted to publicize the argument for cooperation.

Besides, the new initiates to the Neb could at any time out-vote the PRs and kill the virus. Everyone needs to be on the same page to build trust and get the virus aboard the plan.

[Foxcastle]

I think BunnyGo and Jamiet's votes on EMC are NAI, even though they're anti-town. If they were scum, it'd be an easy place to park for the Day 1. Since Therul is new, I was kinda assuming that his vote there was more likely to make him town, but I find the inconsistency weird.

I agree our votes are NAI. I strongly disagree they are anti-town (obv. otherwise I wouldn't be doing it). So long as I clearly register my reads, opinions, and other recordable later game data, it is still providing detail for people to see what I was doing and thought.

I think they're anti-town due to the opportunity cost of wasting your vote on a slot that's not going to produce useful information.

[BunnyGo]

Look if there’s any (alleged) nudity in my spread sheet it is very tasteful

Excellent. But what does your post mean?

What do you mean what does it mean? It’s a vote, wtf else would it mean

I don't know what "Townie naked vote" means to you. I think you mean "I am town, and making a vote with no explanation that should signal to everyone that I am town, and I want there to be no misconception, but I will not explain why this signals I am town or why I think this vote is a good idea."

[worcej]

##vote emc

shake him into action

I'm all for trying to get EMC to do anything, but it won't work and wagoning him on D1 leads to less information than other players.

His existence in the game is anti-town. It is a pro-town move to remove him.

Yes there is less information. I'll state all my other preferences, people can read.

People should say whom else they'd be voting for if not emc. This provides the same content you're seeking later (just not as easily searchable in the bot)

##vote goldfinger0303

I think your opinion of EMC is fair to make - it was similar to my assessment on him last game (when I thought he was scum due to QT involvement and posts).

I believe gold has legit done more scum motivated actions than others (so far) during my reading.

[Nanook]

Excellent. But what does your post mean?

What do you mean what does it mean? It’s a vote, wtf else would it mean

I don't know what "Townie naked vote" means to you. I think you mean "I am town, and making a vote with no explanation that should signal to everyone that I am town, and I want there to be no misconception, but I will not explain why this signals I am town or why I think this vote is a good idea."

Is a joke

[Foxcastle]

Only two who I feel are town. So I piled on with them.
But now that I am caught up, I need to get back to work, and think about what I know.
##unvote

But you had been voting for them before that.

That is how you play the game. You get people talking. I use voting for people helpful, or have you not played before?
##vote Foxcastle

[worcej]

NAI is non-alignment indicative.

Spin it however you want, worcej, but moving from dick jokes to a substantive discussion is always a positive move in my eyes. And having no idea if our PRs had even read the setup (as many here clearly didn't) I wanted to publicize the argument for cooperation.

Besides, the new initiates to the Neb could at any time out-vote the PRs and kill the virus. Everyone needs to be on the same page to build trust and get the virus aboard the plan.

I am the spin master. Some people even call my Spinmaster-Flex!

Your whole 'we need to be on the same page and open' and the fear-mongering by saying 'the people on the neb could just overthrow the PRs' continue to reinforce my opinion you're scum wanting to prevent town advantage.

But don't worry - no one listens to me anyways

[BunnyGo]

I think BunnyGo and Jamiet's votes on EMC are NAI, even though they're anti-town. If they were scum, it'd be an easy place to park for the Day 1. Since Therul is new, I was kinda assuming that his vote there was more likely to make him town, but I find the inconsistency weird.

I agree our votes are NAI. I strongly disagree they are anti-town (obv. otherwise I wouldn't be doing it). So long as I clearly register my reads, opinions, and other recordable later game data, it is still providing detail for people to see what I was doing and thought.

I think they're anti-town due to the opportunity cost of wasting your vote on a slot that's not going to produce useful information.

What will not be useful? EMC's flip? Very useful (unless he's 3P...then less useful). But whatever, we disagree.

[BunnyGo]

But you had been voting for them before that.

That is how you play the game. You get people talking. I use voting for people helpful, or have you not played before?
##vote Foxcastle

I do agree with this response.

[ghug]

##vote Hamilton Brian


Feel like pretty much every read HB has given throughout the game has immediately been qualified by 'pretty weak' or 'might be wrong', and despite being called out for hedging earlier he's carried on regardless.


Other things of note:

- Jamie trying to PR read into RHK & ghug's jokeposts is 10x worse than the original posts were

- Not sure I really like BunnyGo's explanation for why he didn't complain about my layered plan last game given the level to which it wound xorxes up, and the fact that I don't recall Bunny commenting on it at all at the time. Not really enough to push on, but enough to make me wary of him here.

- For such an apparently experienced player, I'm a bit confused about how 90% of Nanook's posts have been about spreadsheets & meta and how essentially none of them have actually appeared to be geared toward finding the scum.

- Like Tom Bombadil's quickness to put therul on the townshelf

- Don't agree with damo being townread for 3P analysis, because whether or not it has any merit, coming up with mech solutions is by far the easiest way for scum to fake being townie.

- Similar to above, pretty much every post from BismarckAlive has either been about art auctions or what the virus should or shouldn't do, without anything looking like actual scumhunting. Another person to watch carefully.

It’s ok, it confuses a lot of people

And yet I’m still a better player than you

I suppose it's possible we've played together elsewhere if you've played across as many sites as you implied, but poking at my ego is unlikely to make me think you're doing anything helpful and therefore that you are town.


Regardless though, BismarckAlive has continued to do nothing except discuss mechanics & the third party, and is now voting someone based solely on that as well. He's an excellent vote. ##vote BismarckAlive

You should vote for gold with me if that's your justification.

[Tom Bombadil]

I think there is a non-zero chance that Macca subbed out because he rolled scum again and did poorly his first mafia round as scum.

[therul]

My sarcasm font did not come through.

##unvote

please forgive me. I am a little bit pissed off IRL. Working in an undermanned IT department, which I am the senior, and I have people going through our storage, with a contractor calling the shots. Lots of history, but I will not vent here.

I will be back later.

[worcej]

I think you didn't read the first posts of the game really closely or your own PM....

Why you say that?

Look the PMs and try to get what Ghug meant with most important role....

Why is rdr so blatantly pointing this out?