Mafia 57 Matrix

[Jamiet99uk]

I like spreadsheets.

[Hamilton Brian]

Hoo boy there’s a lot of pages to catch up on.

@goldie, yeah, bad form on my part. I didn’t contribute to town cohesion. However, after stepping back for a few hours, I think I can say I need to get my head around this Matrix setup.

Right now I don’t have a feeling on anyone. I want to spend some time re-reading some things.

[BismarckAlive]

Oh that's true the ship QT is lost if the Virus wins.

I guess the ideal outcome, then, is to eliminate the Mafia and then lynch the Virus last.

Kill the virus with the ship's anti virus rather than daykill, yes.

However of course this is the very reason 3p might not be so subservient! We can but hope.

No real need to hope. See, the Virus can be night killed, just like every Townie. The Virus NEEDS to be recruited so they become BULLETPROOF. And I would expect the NEB occupants to test any recruit claiming the 3P role. So, every night that passes without being recruited will be like 3P playing Russian roulette...

[therul]

##vote BunnyGo
Just to get rid of the OMGUS and to post something

[Nanook]

Tell us about your spreadsheet, Nanook. What data are you collecting? What are you measuring? How do you detect non-obvious connections between players that could be scum-teams? Do you think the mason chat will make town players appear connected in a way that is usually scum-indicative?

Don’t care about connections d1 tbh, that’s relevant after finding a scum

My spreadsheet is fucking exhausting I forgot how much I hate data tabulation. If it becomes relevant I’ll share my conclusions

[goldfinger0303]

God, did Hamilton really just put a scum read on every new player, then defer to an analysis by Bunny and proceed to hedge the shit out of it?

##vote Hamilton brian

Can you explain why you find this scummy and not typical newbie town play?

My gut reaction here is Goldie going after some potential low hanging fruit.

Is HB a newbie? I swore I've seen his name in games before, and he's been on the site for ages. The others I don't even recognize by name.

[goldfinger0303]

Oh that's true the ship QT is lost if the Virus wins.

I guess the ideal outcome, then, is to eliminate the Mafia and then lynch the Virus last.

Kill the virus with the ship's anti virus rather than daykill, yes.

However of course this is the very reason 3p might not be so subservient! We can but hope.

No real need to hope. See, the Virus can be night killed, just like every Townie. The Virus NEEDS to be recruited so they become BULLETPROOF. And I would expect the NEB occupants to test any recruit claiming the 3P role. So, every night that passes without being recruited will be like 3P playing Russian roulette...

I think damo needs to read the setup again.

Virus needs to be red pilled, then targeted by the maf for a NK, and THEN lynched by town (in that order) in order to win. Bismark was suggesting a solution to let virus win. Damo then countered by saying we should off them. This does not go well towards building trust.

Town losing the day QT isn't great, but hopefully by that point the mafia are whittled down and we have a lynch to spare. After all, the final stage relies on mafia hitting the virus with their NK. The only danger to the virus in this scenario is if town breaks their promise.

[Tom Bombadil]

God, did Hamilton really just put a scum read on every new player, then defer to an analysis by Bunny and proceed to hedge the shit out of it?

##vote Hamilton brian

Can you explain why you find this scummy and not typical newbie town play?

My gut reaction here is Goldie going after some potential low hanging fruit.

Is HB a newbie? I swore I've seen his name in games before, and he's been on the site for ages. The others I don't even recognize by name.

You voted a guy and you didn’t even read the like 6 posts he has made? He said this is his second game.

[ghug]

Bismark, my comment was more a generality about how WebDip mafia games go than specifically damning anyone in particular.

But now I'm going to damn someone in particular.

@ghug - it's not a crapshoot. Neb and 3rd party can talk in their own QT *right now* if I'm reading the rules correctly. Neb crew can just say "Hey Virus, say "potato" in your next post" and boom, crapshoot over. 100% confirmation.

Also, this

That said, it's in the third party's best interests to bleed town right now, both because they need us to have room to lynch them down the line, and because that's what'll get them shipped.

This makes no sense. If they need room to be lynched down the line, shouldn't they *not* bleed town? Why would town trust the third party if they've been offing us? If the third party is to reveal themselves to the Neb crew and not rely on sneaking aboard, their single biggest concern is the anti-virus death dagger the crew controls. In my mind, that is the only hurdle we, collectively, have to address here.

Oh, I missed that they can chat.

"Bleed" here means "appear strongly", not "murder repeatedly". Why the fuck would anyone openly advocate for the SK killing townies? You continue to not think like town.

[goldfinger0303]

Can you explain why you find this scummy and not typical newbie town play?

My gut reaction here is Goldie going after some potential low hanging fruit.

Is HB a newbie? I swore I've seen his name in games before, and he's been on the site for ages. The others I don't even recognize by name.

You voted a guy and you didn’t even read the like 6 posts he has made? He said this is his second game.

I just looked back. He stated he was in his second game in post 160, at the bottom of a page. My vote against was post 161, at the top of the next page. Easy cross-post miss.

[ghug]

Kill the virus with the ship's anti virus rather than daykill, yes.

However of course this is the very reason 3p might not be so subservient! We can but hope.

No real need to hope. See, the Virus can be night killed, just like every Townie. The Virus NEEDS to be recruited so they become BULLETPROOF. And I would expect the NEB occupants to test any recruit claiming the 3P role. So, every night that passes without being recruited will be like 3P playing Russian roulette...

I think damo needs to read the setup again.

Virus needs to be red pilled, then targeted by the maf for a NK, and THEN lynched by town (in that order) in order to win. Bismark was suggesting a solution to let virus win. Damo then countered by saying we should off them. This does not go well towards building trust.

Town losing the day QT isn't great, but hopefully by that point the mafia are whittled down and we have a lynch to spare. After all, the final stage relies on mafia hitting the virus with their NK. The only danger to the virus in this scenario is if town breaks their promise.

He's clearly saying do that at the end when we do have to kill the virus. Opinions on mechanics are never indicative of scumminess. The fact that you keep trying to frame them as such by means of poor reading comprehension and questionable understanding of context is telling.

[goldfinger0303]

Bismark, my comment was more a generality about how WebDip mafia games go than specifically damning anyone in particular.

But now I'm going to damn someone in particular.

@ghug - it's not a crapshoot. Neb and 3rd party can talk in their own QT *right now* if I'm reading the rules correctly. Neb crew can just say "Hey Virus, say "potato" in your next post" and boom, crapshoot over. 100% confirmation.

Also, this

That said, it's in the third party's best interests to bleed town right now, both because they need us to have room to lynch them down the line, and because that's what'll get them shipped.

This makes no sense. If they need room to be lynched down the line, shouldn't they *not* bleed town? Why would town trust the third party if they've been offing us? If the third party is to reveal themselves to the Neb crew and not rely on sneaking aboard, their single biggest concern is the anti-virus death dagger the crew controls. In my mind, that is the only hurdle we, collectively, have to address here.

Oh, I missed that they can chat.

"Bleed" here means "appear strongly", not "murder repeatedly". Why the fuck would anyone openly advocate for the SK killing townies? You continue to not think like town.

Well you continue to not think, which is a step down from what I'm doing, so I didn't put it past you to advocate for that. Hadn't heard bleed used that way in a while, but your statement makes sense now.

[goldfinger0303]

No real need to hope. See, the Virus can be night killed, just like every Townie. The Virus NEEDS to be recruited so they become BULLETPROOF. And I would expect the NEB occupants to test any recruit claiming the 3P role. So, every night that passes without being recruited will be like 3P playing Russian roulette...

I think damo needs to read the setup again.

Virus needs to be red pilled, then targeted by the maf for a NK, and THEN lynched by town (in that order) in order to win. Bismark was suggesting a solution to let virus win. Damo then countered by saying we should off them. This does not go well towards building trust.

Town losing the day QT isn't great, but hopefully by that point the mafia are whittled down and we have a lynch to spare. After all, the final stage relies on mafia hitting the virus with their NK. The only danger to the virus in this scenario is if town breaks their promise.

He's clearly saying do that at the end when we do have to kill the virus. Opinions on mechanics are never indicative of scumminess. The fact that you keep trying to frame them as such by means of poor reading comprehension and questionable understanding of context is telling.

Where am I scumreading damo?

[goldfinger0303]

And holy shit ghug we don't have to kill the virus

[ghug]

I think damo needs to read the setup again.

Virus needs to be red pilled, then targeted by the maf for a NK, and THEN lynched by town (in that order) in order to win. Bismark was suggesting a solution to let virus win. Damo then countered by saying we should off them. This does not go well towards building trust.

Town losing the day QT isn't great, but hopefully by that point the mafia are whittled down and we have a lynch to spare. After all, the final stage relies on mafia hitting the virus with their NK. The only danger to the virus in this scenario is if town breaks their promise.

He's clearly saying do that at the end when we do have to kill the virus. Opinions on mechanics are never indicative of scumminess. The fact that you keep trying to frame them as such by means of poor reading comprehension and questionable understanding of context is telling.

Where am I scumreading damo?

Fine, you're just casting aspersions for fun.

[ghug]

And holy shit ghug we don't have to kill the virus

That's how the virus wins.

[ghug]

I actually went and looked at the rules, and I don't think we're allowed to use the virus killer to make the virus win, since it happens at night and the virus wins by dying during the day.

[goldfinger0303]

And holy shit ghug we don't have to kill the virus

That's how the virus wins.

Well now you're misunderstanding me. Kill means actually kill. Dead. They lost the game. Anti-virus will *kill* the virus. Maf hitting the virus before they're on the Neb will *kill* the virus. Virus needs to be lynched to win. That's why damo's claim that we should kill it with the anti-virus makes no sense.

What I'm doing is trying to get everyone on the same page. Asking people to re-read the setup isn't casting aspersions.

[goldfinger0303]

And holy shit ghug we don't have to kill the virus

That's how the virus wins.

I thought your earlier statement meant you thought town needed to kill the 3rd party to end the game.

[ghug]

And holy shit ghug we don't have to kill the virus

That's how the virus wins.

Well now you're misunderstanding me. Kill means actually kill. Dead. They lost the game. Anti-virus will *kill* the virus. Maf hitting the virus before they're on the Neb will *kill* the virus. Virus needs to be lynched to win. That's why damo's claim that we should kill it with the anti-virus makes no sense.

What I'm doing is trying to get everyone on the same page. Asking people to re-read the setup isn't casting aspersions.

The hostile argumentative tone is usually associated with trying to make people look bad in order to either get them scumread or discredit them.