Mini-Mafia M1012

[Minister of Silly Walks]

it appears people want an explanation for my vote

It would be welcome indeed.

Eh, what if it's a Vecna/Jamiet scum team and Vecna is just trying to protect the latter after faux fighting or w/e they were doing

This is an explanation no worse than others, but if we hear from Vecna himself it should provide some more information whatever the case is.

[Durga]

K we need a lot more engagement to stand a chance. So if you're town please weigh in some more

[Durga]

@jamiet how do feel about Vecna moving from you to me?

[bozotheclown]

Unless darg is playing only I am allowed to play the "Get Off My Lawn" card:

##VOTE HAM

That is not a great reason to back off the summit wagon.

Do you have other reasons for thinking I'm scum? You seem quite convinced.

It was primarily the thing about not reading your role PM, even though it came off as a joke, it seemed defensive after flash voted for you. Since that came after flash's vote, I wanted to know flash's read of you, since he changed his vote to HB for what seemed to not be a serious reason:

Here: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... reviations

That took me about 30 seconds to find. Is this newbie scum trying to look active on the first day?

Hey, thanks for that. No need to be so snippy; I'll default to my age as a defense where in my day we'd have conversations with whom we considered sources. Conditioned that the first thought isn't always to run to the Google. So don't be age-ist!!! OMGWAMS!

Unless darg is playing only I am allowed to play the "Get Off My Lawn" card:

##VOTE HAM

Put another way, you were the top wagon, so if you were really a scum read of flash, it would be suspicious for him to take you off the hook just to make a joke vote for someone else. It also opens up the possibility he was bussing you with his first vote, and was looking for an opportunity to move his vote after you picked up 2 more votes.

[bozotheclown]

##VOTE BOZOTHECLOWN

Bozo is just skimming the surface this game, dipping in a few times during the phase and reacting to or questioning things which he saw on the current page when he logged in.

He's making no effort to read the whole game even though the amount of activity is very low. For example he didn't post between pages 4 and 7. When he re-appeared on page 7, he only questioned or reacted to things posted on that page, nothing from pages 5 or 6 including a direct question which I asked him, that he ignored or did not notice.

As well as just apparently skimming the surface, there's no sign of Bozo's usual desire to investigate the mechanics of the game and use them to try to sort people.

Very unlike his usual self. He has been town the last few times I've played with him but something is different here.

I find it hard to believe you think I had not read the whole game when there were only 7 pages. Also, there are no mechanics worth discussing D1. I saw your question on page 6, but I did not answer it because I did not think you were really expecting an answer. However, I am fine, thank you for you concern.

[Durga]

Wait Jamiet's question was asking if Bozo was okay? Lmao what??

[bozotheclown]

Now you are voting with summit, has he convinced you that he is town?

So I come back to this. I think Bozo was the first to establish the Summit wagon, and they're still pushing it.

##Vote Bozo

Do you find voting for summit suspicious?

[bozotheclown]

@Minister,

You switched your vote from Jamie to e.m. based on posting timelines. Why would that be a standout reason for you?

I'm not asking to kick up a hornet's nest. I really want to know for information's sake.

I am just as much of a newbie, but it appears to me that posting a couple of lines in the beginning and disappearing for the rest of the day like EMC did isn't the normal behavior, and I don't have any better reasons against anyone.

Vecna, you and Flash look a lot more townie than not, in that order of plausibility.

Summit wagon seems to have started as a reaction to a single joke, and for me lacks any good reason for existing whatsoever; otherwise, he seems to be thoroughly townie, too.

Durga came up with a plausible excuse for not posting and otherwise leans into town.

Vecna vs. Jamiet is mostly based on meta, so it is difficult for me to make any conclusions about. I think I emphasized sufficiently that my vote on Jamiet was pretty much as random as it could be.

Bozo causes some suspicion, EMC appears a better target for now. If the vote remains indecisive in the next six or so hours, I will switch my vote to Bozo, just to check someone and get a starting point for further assumptions.

My reads for now are Jamiet/Bozo/EMC, and probably not both of the former as busing on D1 seems counterproductive for mafia (though that, of course, goes into WIFOM again).

I would not rule out bussing on D1.

[bozotheclown]

That assessment of Vecna and Flash appearing "townie." That's interesting because in their writing I can pull out anything that sways me one way or the other.

Indeed anything can be read both ways, but they cause a lot less suspicion from me than EMC or Bozo and if I got into any depth there, this would only serve to obscure the message as I would have three times more reads than I should.

As much as I am on the Bozo wagon, I'll continue to listen for the read on EMC.

There isn't much of a read on him. These are all his messages, less than even GM's:
http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?g= ... r=e.m.c^42
Summary: "Hi flash hi MOSW hi Hamilton vote summit", I believe I didn't miss anything important there.

Did you ever say why you suspect me?

[Minister of Silly Walks]

I would not rule out bussing on D1.

I am not exactly ruling it out, but it goes much deeper into WIFOM than I want to bother with, be it Vecna vs. Jamiet, Summit vs. Flash, Summit vs. EMC, me vs. you or any other of 72 possible combinations.

Did you ever say why you suspect me?

I'm sorry about that.
Summit wagon seems to lack a reason for its existence or any justification whatsoever. The initial vote can be written off as a joke, but insisting on this vote without a slightest attempt to reason through it or move onto something more meaningful even after multiple pages of new information were provided.

[bozotheclown]

There has not bee too much to go on, but summit is still my best guess for scum. Initially I thought his joke about not reading his rile PM could have been an attempt to deflect suspicion after flash voted for him. Then, after I voted for him, he initially indicated that he thought my vote for him was scum motivated, but then backed off on this. Although town would not be happy with picking up 3 quick votes either, I got the feeling summit was trying to figure out if it was worth trying to discredit my vote. HB was reluctant to place a vote, then voted for me for reasons pertaining to summit, so if I am right about summit, HB is a possibility for the second scum.

Another possibility is that Jamie is scum and was bussing emc or Durga.

##VOTE EMC until he casts a vote because that's my policy.

I reviewed recent games and could not find a case where Jamie voted for emc for this reason, although it is something a number of players have done.

[bozotheclown]

I would not rule out bussing on D1.

I am not exactly ruling it out, but it goes much deeper into WIFOM than I want to bother with, be it Vecna vs. Jamiet, Summit vs. Flash, Summit vs. EMC, me vs. you or any other of 72 possible combinations.

Did you ever say why you suspect me?

I'm sorry about that.
Summit wagon seems to lack a reason for its existence or any justification whatsoever. The initial vote can be written off as a joke, but insisting on this vote without a slightest attempt to reason through it or move onto something more meaningful even after multiple pages of new information were provided.

I have not found anything "more meaningful" to move onto. flash's vote may have been a joke, although it is not clear if that is the case, but my vote was not a joke.

[Durga]

Well, I'm definitely getting a strong town read from Bozo FWIW. Although I'm not sure about the summit lynch. And the longer Vecna is quiet the more scummy he seems. I didn't take him for a lurker

[Minister of Silly Walks]

There has not bee too much to go on, but summit is still my best guess for scum. Initially I thought his joke about not reading his rile PM could have been an attempt to deflect suspicion after flash voted for him. Then, after I voted for him, he initially indicated that he thought my vote for him was scum motivated, but then backed off on this. Although town would not be happy with picking up 3 quick votes either, I got the feeling summit was trying to figure out if it was worth trying to discredit my vote. HB was reluctant to place a vote, then voted for me for reasons pertaining to summit, so if I am right about summit, HB is a possibility for the second scum.

Another possibility is that Jamie is scum and was bussing emc or Durga.

##VOTE EMC until he casts a vote because that's my policy.

I reviewed recent games and could not find a case where Jamie voted for emc for this reason, although it is something a number of players have done.

Thanks. Such an explanation was exactly what I was looking for, though it would earn you a lot more credibility in my eyes if posted before my request.

[Jamiet99uk]

@jamiet how do feel about Vecna moving from you to me?

As I've mentioned before, my instinct was that Vecna was voting me because he was mistaken, rather than because he was scum. His challenge to me over that logic was annoying, but then, Vecna being annoying and antagonistic towards me even when I am attempting to be calm and reasonable with him is not, sadly, scum-indicative either.

As for his move to you? Well, I am not super-impressed by him naked voting you, and then when questioned, remarking thus:

it appears people want an explanation for my vote

This amounts not only to an acknowledgement that people want him to explain his vote, but also a public refusal to provide such an explanation. That is not pro-town play and I expect Vecna will re-appear shortly and tell us it was a "reaction test" because that's the stock webDip Mafia response to being called out for doing unhelpful shit.

Meta tells me that this could just be Vekna doing Vekna things but, as I say, it's not pro-town play. As town, it's bad play. Especially in a small game with some new players, making naked votes and refusing to explain them is not helpful at all.

For now, I remain happy with my vote for Bozo, who is still skimming the game and behaving in the manner I called attention to previously. I would however consider voting for Vecna, or for EMC who has barely participated at all despite, for once, casting a vote before the last two minutes.

[Durga]

You CANNOT say that bozo has just skimmed the thread wtf

[Jamiet99uk]

Another possibility is that Jamie is scum and was bussing emc or Durga.

##VOTE EMC until he casts a vote because that's my policy.

I reviewed recent games and could not find a case where Jamie voted for emc for this reason, although it is something a number of players have done.

This is nonsense, Bozo. Either you are lying about reviewing recent games, or you are lying about what you found there.

On Day 1 of M52, I voted for EMC at the start of D1 to pressure him to vote.

On Day 1 of M53 I called EMC out for low participation and voted for him, and accusing him of being scum using his "EMC is afraid of voting" meta to avoid scrutiny. I was absolutely right, btw, but I couldn't persuade enough people to join me and EMC's scum-team went on to win the game.

On Day 1 of 54 I voted EMC for lack of participation and failing to vote.

In M55 I did not vote for EMC on D1. I acknowledge that.

M56, the most recent full game to finish, is not relevant for these purposes because I was a sub and only joined the game after D1 was over.


But for you to say there is no evidence of me policy / pressure voting EMC in recent games is frankly just false.

[Jamiet99uk]

You CANNOT say that bozo has just skimmed the thread wtf

I see that you are very keen on defending Bozo.

I see that.

That is what I see.

[Jamiet99uk]

I think that Bozo and EMC would be the best wagons today.

That is what I think.

[Durga]

I think that Bozo and EMC would be the best wagons today.

That is what I think.

Well I'm starting to think you're both town actually.