Mafia 56: Scout Camp

[xorxes]

We are going to have counterclaims to choose from in the PR group. Do you have a scum team prediction?

I have HR so far. Need to look more into summit, Donny, damo. I think brain. Durga and you are town. It would seem Bob is town. I was more confident about rivera earlier.

Most of the PRs are laying low, so hard to tell, but not for today. Jamie is looking slightly better than Chaqa did.

Just to say something: HR, summit, Jamie, JF. But HR is the only one I'm somewhat confident of.

I think I played with HR only in my first games and I just don't remember his meta. Do you think he will try to tie the vote on D1 instead of just letting Bozo be lynched if Bozo is town? People usually fear to tie the vote and after the tie someone usually untie one way or another and you can't predict which way. I just see HR as scum if Bozo is also scum.

It is not clear whether HR was aware or not that he was tying. Why would he want to tie it as town with only seconds left? It is not clear whether he was aware of how much time was left. The main question is whether he was willing to bus, and whether he had any better options. He could not believably vote for bozo there, and if he stayed out of it when everyone was consolidating it would have looked bad as well.

[xorxes]

I remember that xorxes and I used to deathtunnel each other repeatedly almost every game, and I'm amused to see that after two years away at least one of us looks to be maintaining that posture.

I'm trying to keep an open mind, but there are indications that point your way. It's not like there are too many other options. The main two things that point in your direction are macca's interactions with almost everyone else, and your read of Bob that seemed to ignore macca in a way that did not make much sense. Then your reaction of scumreading me just for having a different take than you on the best way to go about the claims.

[Hellenic Riot]

I have HR so far. Need to look more into summit, Donny, damo. I think brain. Durga and you are town. It would seem Bob is town. I was more confident about rivera earlier.

Most of the PRs are laying low, so hard to tell, but not for today. Jamie is looking slightly better than Chaqa did.

Just to say something: HR, summit, Jamie, JF. But HR is the only one I'm somewhat confident of.

I think I played with HR only in my first games and I just don't remember his meta. Do you think he will try to tie the vote on D1 instead of just letting Bozo be lynched if Bozo is town? People usually fear to tie the vote and after the tie someone usually untie one way or another and you can't predict which way. I just see HR as scum if Bozo is also scum.

It is not clear whether HR was aware or not that he was tying. Why would he want to tie it as town with only seconds left? It is not clear whether he was aware of how much time was left. The main question is whether he was willing to bus, and whether he had any better options. He could not believably vote for bozo there, and if he stayed out of it when everyone was consolidating it would have looked bad as well.

I could quite easily have just not posted in the last two minutes and let Bozo get lynched - And I wouldn't have looked any worse than the other 40% of players who didn't put a vote on either main wagon, including a number of people who were around at EoD (brainbomb and EMC come immediately to mind). I voted with a good 50 seconds to go which made it tied, and I had another tab open ready to change my vote to untie it if nobody else changed. As it happened, Damo also came in and changed his vote, and that was therefore unnecessary, much as I had hoped.

[Hellenic Riot]

I remember that xorxes and I used to deathtunnel each other repeatedly almost every game, and I'm amused to see that after two years away at least one of us looks to be maintaining that posture.

I'm trying to keep an open mind, but there are indications that point your way. It's not like there are too many other options. The main two things that point in your direction are macca's interactions with almost everyone else, and your read of Bob that seemed to ignore macca in a way that did not make much sense. Then your reaction of scumreading me just for having a different take than you on the best way to go about the claims.

I really don't get your fixation on this Bob thing. I called him out very early on because his leap to defence jarred from the tone of the rest of the game. I pushed him for a bit on it, made him squirm for a while, and then he claimed it was a joke that had clearly gone over my head... And that was that. I did not read a deeper meaning into it, and have not been throwing scumreads on Bob because of it at any point since, whereas you seem to be implying that I scumread Bob while ignoring Macca for it - Which I did not do. I shelved both.

As for who Macca interacted with, I had no desire to try and get blood out of a stone and so no, I did not try and needle him and then work out if his confusion was real or not. I suspect that Macca only interacted with people who initiated interaction with him, aside from apparently fearing anyone who gave out big lists of early reads. And I have no intention of trying to reread him and guess that he was actually some excellent scum player hiding behind a veil of fake confusion, when in all likelihood he was really just a confused noob who happened to be scum.

But yes, I find it mildly galling that someone who very much led the massclaim in the first place is now against utilising the massclaim they themselves forced to actually give us some benefit. At this point, if we sit here not lynching a guilty report and not co-ordinating the scans for maximal effect, why did we even bother massclaiming at all? A job half-arsed is worse than a job not done.

[summit_fever]

Macca and Damo all lean to me as scum.
I think the worcej wagon is just stupid because he does not want to declare a particular role. Same thing with Bob.
Damo seemed very quick to just pop up and claim, which I think is suspicious and he seemed to feel a need to say he was town this time.
Can someone with better knowledge on Damo meta tell me if this is usual?
Reading Bozo again seems to me neutral/slightscum
He is keeping track of the massclaim though.
My main issue though is that a lot of us like Brainbomb have not posted in awhile. And some lurking seems to be occurring with only 9 of us over 20 posts.
And a good chunk of the other side is ten posts or less which makes for difficult reads.

Donny is scumming Macca and Damo but votes neither of them day 1.

rrrrrriiight

K
If not then it would be for Macca,
Would that be more useful than a dead weight then?

What did I do? I want to not do it in the future.

He votes thereal the lurker and suggests macca to brainbomb when brainbomb looks less than convinced (still no vote). Macca's response is scum-scum. Donny never replies to it.

Donny ends up on chaqa/jamie and I'm wondering if anybody remembers if donny was around for end of day? He was around within 15 minutes after the start of night.

I suggest we have Chaqa, or his sub, claim his exact role and see if anyone counterclaims.

I think, we wait and see if he actually subs lol

I agree.
Should I tell who my buddy is yet?
I understand it is risky.

What do you mean it's risky? What were you hoping to accomplish with this?

And now Donny is on claimed PR flyingboat while still apparently scumreading damo (a VT) but, for some reason, not voting him.

##vote donny

[Donny Dude]

Macca and Damo all lean to me as scum.
I think the worcej wagon is just stupid because he does not want to declare a particular role. Same thing with Bob.
Damo seemed very quick to just pop up and claim, which I think is suspicious and he seemed to feel a need to say he was town this time.
Can someone with better knowledge on Damo meta tell me if this is usual?
Reading Bozo again seems to me neutral/slightscum
He is keeping track of the massclaim though.
My main issue though is that a lot of us like Brainbomb have not posted in awhile. And some lurking seems to be occurring with only 9 of us over 20 posts.
And a good chunk of the other side is ten posts or less which makes for difficult reads.

Donny is scumming Macca and Damo but votes neither of them day 1.

K
If not then it would be for Macca,
Would that be more useful than a dead weight then?

What did I do? I want to not do it in the future.

He votes thereal the lurker and suggests macca to brainbomb when brainbomb looks less than convinced (still no vote). Macca's response is scum-scum. Donny never replies to it.

Donny ends up on chaqa/jamie and I'm wondering if anybody remembers if donny was around for end of day? He was around within 15 minutes after the start of night.

I think, we wait and see if he actually subs lol

I agree.
Should I tell who my buddy is yet?
I understand it is risky.

What do you mean it's risky? What were you hoping to accomplish with this?

And now Donny is on claimed PR flyingboat while still apparently scumreading damo (a VT) but, for some reason, not voting him.

##vote donny

Really, because it was for Hellenic
I still maintain Jamie/Chaqa is scum.
And that is because Chaqa held up the massclaim.
Did you ignore the post where I say it is the weaker of 4 reads
Because of the double Nk and I thought my buddy was scum.
As I said I was busy at EOD and if I was able to would have changed to Macca.
And Hellenic has me suspicious again because of additional conversation,
##vote Hellenic

[summit_fever]

Really, because it was for Hellenic
I still maintain Jamie/Chaqa is scum.
And that is because Chaqa held up the massclaim.
Did you ignore the post where I say it is the weaker of 4 reads
Because of the double Nk and I thought my buddy was scum.
As I said I was busy at EOD and if I was able to would have changed to Macca.
And Hellenic has me suspicious again because of additional conversation,
##vote Hellenic

Sorry, what was for Hellenic?

Sure I saw your post mentioning damo was now a weak read. That's where you voted for your second PR of the phase.

[bozotheclown]

You're not pushing any of your reads though. You're not putting any pressure on your "scumreads".

You're not even voting for anyone.

I am pushing them, and everyone else, to provide their scum team predictions, because I think the scum would prefer not to if they could avoid it.

Of your four stated scumreads, three of them have provided their scum team predictions, and two of those were among the first four to respond.

That does not look like "avoiding" to me, so what does that tell you?

Maybe just that they do not want to look like they are avoiding it.

[bozotheclown]

And once again Bozo, why aren't you voting?

As usual you're more interested in compiling surveys than actually getting people lynched.

I will vote before the day is over.

[summit_fever]

And once again Bozo, why aren't you voting?

As usual you're more interested in compiling surveys than actually getting people lynched.

I will vote before the day is over.

think emc can make it two in a row?

[bozotheclown]

And once again Bozo, why aren't you voting?

As usual you're more interested in compiling surveys than actually getting people lynched.

I will vote before the day is over.

think emc can make it two in a row?

emc seems to have disappeared with flash.

[bozotheclown]

PRs will be much easier to sort after claims and NK, no point spending much time on that. Finding the scum in the VTs is much more important now.

We are going to have counterclaims to choose from in the PR group. Do you have a scum team prediction?

I have HR so far. Need to look more into summit, Donny, damo. I think brain. Durga and you are town. It would seem Bob is town. I was more confident about rivera earlier.

Most of the PRs are laying low, so hard to tell, but not for today. Jamie is looking slightly better than Chaqa did.

Just to say something: HR, summit, Jamie, JF. But HR is the only one I'm somewhat confident of.

Scum team predictions:

bozo: Jamie, flash, Donny, rdrivera
Donny: Jamie, HR, damo, TFB
brainbomb: Donny, Jamie, rdrivera, summit
Jamie: bozo, Bob, flash, TFB
HR: Donny, brainbomb, Jamie, xorxes
rdrivera: Bob, Donny, Jamie, TFB
summit: bozo, brainbomb, Bob, flash
xorxes: HR, summit, Jamie, JF

[Donny Dude]

Really, because it was for Hellenic
I still maintain Jamie/Chaqa is scum.
And that is because Chaqa held up the massclaim.
Did you ignore the post where I say it is the weaker of 4 reads
Because of the double Nk and I thought my buddy was scum.
As I said I was busy at EOD and if I was able to would have changed to Macca.
And Hellenic has me suspicious again because of additional conversation,
##vote Hellenic

Sorry, what was for Hellenic?

Sure I saw your post mentioning damo was now a weak read. That's where you voted for your second PR of the phase.

Because I believe getting a second pr and removing a potential scum to be a good thing.
Vote for hellenic before.

[bozotheclown]

Assuming TRC was a PR, there is a 50% chance he was a FAE or TCG. The scum PR claimants likely intend to claim FAE and TCG, so if the only counter claims are 3 FAEs or 3 TCGs, then the second scum PR is likely in the other, even though there will be only 2 claims. If we get lucky, TRC was not an FAE or TCG, and we will get 3 claims for each. Or, one scum PR claimant could wait to claim last, so that he claims the PR that has not been claimed, because that is obviously the role TRC had.

[summit_fever]

Really, because it was for Hellenic
I still maintain Jamie/Chaqa is scum.
And that is because Chaqa held up the massclaim.
Did you ignore the post where I say it is the weaker of 4 reads
Because of the double Nk and I thought my buddy was scum.
As I said I was busy at EOD and if I was able to would have changed to Macca.
And Hellenic has me suspicious again because of additional conversation,
##vote Hellenic

Sorry, what was for Hellenic?

Sure I saw your post mentioning damo was now a weak read. That's where you voted for your second PR of the phase.

Because I believe getting a second pr and removing a potential scum to be a good thing.
Vote for hellenic before.

Getting a second PR and removing a potential scum?

Nervous?

[bozotheclown]

I bet EMC isn't around to claim.

Wonder if it's cause he know he won't die...

This really looks like worcej is the one who knew he and emc would survive. Maybe it is possible Chaqa was town.

[Donny Dude]

Sorry, what was for Hellenic?

Sure I saw your post mentioning damo was now a weak read. That's where you voted for your second PR of the phase.

Because I believe getting a second pr and removing a potential scum to be a good thing.
Vote for hellenic before.

Getting a second PR and removing a potential scum?

Nervous?

no, just have my own opinion.
Summit may I ask why you believe Jamiet is not part of the scum team?

[summit_fever]

Assuming TRC was a PR, there is a 50% chance he was a FAE or TCG. The scum PR claimants likely intend to claim FAE and TCG, so if the only counter claims are 3 FAEs or 3 TCGs, then the second scum PR is likely in the other, even though there will be only 2 claims. If we get lucky, TRC was not an FAE or TCG, and we will get 3 claims for each. Or, one scum PR claimant could wait to claim last, so that he claims the PR that has not been claimed, because that is obviously the role TRC had.

Don't forget the scoutmaster is believed to be out there so there is a 57% chance thereal was one of doc/joat...if they were a PR.

[bozotheclown]

sorry. first part of this game.

So you think Bob fabricated the Macca quotes?

No.
I think the most reasonable VTs to consider are Damo and Hellenic. I have Donny and Durga in the null camp.

Damo: If Damo rolled scum again getting the mass claim rolling with him claiming VT takes the pressure off while hoping his team in the PR camp can ultimately get the job done.

Hellenic: Again I have my doubts since I was interested in Hellenic having no contact at all with Macca. Hellenic gave a couple of opportunities to Macca to engage him early in the game. Macca chose not to. Hellenic's flip could give some useful information into how Macca was approaching the game.

Do you want to give me an update scum team prediction?

[summit_fever]

So you think Bob fabricated the Macca quotes?

No.
I think the most reasonable VTs to consider are Damo and Hellenic. I have Donny and Durga in the null camp.

Damo: If Damo rolled scum again getting the mass claim rolling with him claiming VT takes the pressure off while hoping his team in the PR camp can ultimately get the job done.

Hellenic: Again I have my doubts since I was interested in Hellenic having no contact at all with Macca. Hellenic gave a couple of opportunities to Macca to engage him early in the game. Macca chose not to. Hellenic's flip could give some useful information into how Macca was approaching the game.

Do you want to give me an update scum team prediction?

I've grown rather fond of this one.