Mafia 56: Scout Camp

[Hellenic Riot]

I agree that it would be better to fullclaim and lynch the guilty. The Scoutmaster may lose their scan tonight, but the Cool Guys can both use their at once so even if scum RB one scan then the other two will definitely go through. Throw in Quartermaster scans and we're going to get at least 3 scans tonight. It's better to therefore minimise the list of people who actually need to be scanned by getting as many clears as we can as fast as we can.

No, only one of the Cool Guys will be active tonight, and we don't know what action the one that is active has already used.

And we have the night to figure out how to minimize the list of people who need to be scanned. It's better to get another day with real wagons to analyse first.

The mafia do not know *which* Cool Guy will be active though, so their RB may not help there.

[Hellenic Riot]

@HR, do you have any comments on what I said about your Bob read? Why did you think it was scummy the way he answered brainbomb if you weren't thinking he was trying to protect macca? What do you think of Bob now?

I felt he was jumping in to answer to earn himself towncred from the noob initially, but it's certainly true that he could have been making a very rapid & open jump to the defence of a teammate instead. The fact that Bob was on the Bozo wagon D1 doesn't really help much either.

[xorxes]

@HR, do you have any comments on what I said about your Bob read? Why did you think it was scummy the way he answered brainbomb if you weren't thinking he was trying to protect macca? What do you think of Bob now?

I felt he was jumping in to answer to earn himself towncred from the noob initially, but it's certainly true that he could have been making a very rapid & open jump to the defence of a teammate instead. The fact that Bob was on the Bozo wagon D1 doesn't really help much either.

Hmm... towncred from a noob doesn't seem like something anyone would go for.

[Hellenic Riot]

@HR, do you have any comments on what I said about your Bob read? Why did you think it was scummy the way he answered brainbomb if you weren't thinking he was trying to protect macca? What do you think of Bob now?

I felt he was jumping in to answer to earn himself towncred from the noob initially, but it's certainly true that he could have been making a very rapid & open jump to the defence of a teammate instead. The fact that Bob was on the Bozo wagon D1 doesn't really help much either.

Hmm... towncred from a noob doesn't seem like something anyone would go for.

Doesn't it? Having someone pocketed the entire game because you were helpful and protective for them sounds like an excellent scum move to me.

[xorxes]

Also, to the people that want claims now: it looks like JF has left the game. That means that if they get replaced, their replacement will have a choice of claim knowing all the other claims, and nobody will be able to blame them for waiting for everyone else to claim first. So if they are scum and TRC was PR, they will be able to just pick whatever role TRC was without a counterclaim.

[xorxes]

I felt he was jumping in to answer to earn himself towncred from the noob initially, but it's certainly true that he could have been making a very rapid & open jump to the defence of a teammate instead. The fact that Bob was on the Bozo wagon D1 doesn't really help much either.

Hmm... towncred from a noob doesn't seem like something anyone would go for.

Doesn't it? Having someone pocketed the entire game because you were helpful and protective for them sounds like an excellent scum move to me.

It would only count as protection if macca was scum. Town would not have needed protection from that question and town!macca would not have felt protected by Bob answering for them. It doesn't work.

[Donny Dude]

Also, to the people that want claims now: it looks like JF has left the game. That means that if they get replaced, their replacement will have a choice of claim knowing all the other claims, and nobody will be able to blame them for waiting for everyone else to claim first. So if they are scum and TRC was PR, they will be able to just pick whatever role TRC was without a counterclaim.

So this means we should eliminate Jf so that possibility cannot occur, is what you are saying?

[xorxes]

Also, to the people that want claims now: it looks like JF has left the game. That means that if they get replaced, their replacement will have a choice of claim knowing all the other claims, and nobody will be able to blame them for waiting for everyone else to claim first. So if they are scum and TRC was PR, they will be able to just pick whatever role TRC was without a counterclaim.

So this means we should eliminate Jf so that possibility cannot occur, is what you are saying?

No, how does that make any sense? If we lynch JF and they flip town, it's another unknown role.

I'm saying we should not make a full reveal until JF gets replaced and the slot can participate of the EON reveal like the rest of the PRs.

[Hellenic Riot]

Also, to the people that want claims now: it looks like JF has left the game. That means that if they get replaced, their replacement will have a choice of claim knowing all the other claims, and nobody will be able to blame them for waiting for everyone else to claim first. So if they are scum and TRC was PR, they will be able to just pick whatever role TRC was without a counterclaim.

Then we deal with that at the end of the game? It'll be mighty hard for a solo scum to win if we've nailed all their teammates; particularly if we can clear 6 or 7 VT's by nailing the scum in there.

[Hellenic Riot]

Hmm... towncred from a noob doesn't seem like something anyone would go for.

Doesn't it? Having someone pocketed the entire game because you were helpful and protective for them sounds like an excellent scum move to me.

It would only count as protection if macca was scum. Town would not have needed protection from that question and town!macca would not have felt protected by Bob answering for them. It doesn't work.

Perhaps, but someone protecting you from a wild brainbomb could certainly feel welcome for a noob.

Do you think that Bob would really leap to his partner's defence there? I don't recall you pushing on Macca because of that interaction despite your stated agreement with me either.

[Donny Dude]

Also, to the people that want claims now: it looks like JF has left the game. That means that if they get replaced, their replacement will have a choice of claim knowing all the other claims, and nobody will be able to blame them for waiting for everyone else to claim first. So if they are scum and TRC was PR, they will be able to just pick whatever role TRC was without a counterclaim.

So this means we should eliminate Jf so that possibility cannot occur, is what you are saying?

No, how does that make any sense? If we lynch JF and they flip town, it's another unknown role.

I'm saying we should not make a full reveal until JF gets replaced and the slot can participate of the EON reveal like the rest of the PRs.

K .
What is with Brainbomb this phase, he seems completely all over the place.

[xorxes]

@Donny, you are currently voting for an uncounterclaimed PR. We are not going to lynch Jamiet today, scummy as he might be, if there's no third claim of that role, so it's a wasted vote.

[Hellenic Riot]

Frankly I feel like the game can and will be broken by a full massclaim here when the scum will be down to so few people after the guilty lynch, and therefore the main reason to oppose it is if you are in fact mafia.

[Donny Dude]

@Donny, you are currently voting for an uncounterclaimed PR. We are not going to lynch Jamiet today, scummy as he might be, if there's no third claim of that role, so it's a wasted vote.

Alright.
##unvote

[xorxes]

Also, to the people that want claims now: it looks like JF has left the game. That means that if they get replaced, their replacement will have a choice of claim knowing all the other claims, and nobody will be able to blame them for waiting for everyone else to claim first. So if they are scum and TRC was PR, they will be able to just pick whatever role TRC was without a counterclaim.

Then we deal with that at the end of the game? It'll be mighty hard for a solo scum to win if we've nailed all their teammates; particularly if we can clear 6 or 7 VT's by nailing the scum in there.

Why are you so interested in doing this in the most beneficial way to scum?

[TheFlyingBoat]

Also, to the people that want claims now: it looks like JF has left the game. That means that if they get replaced, their replacement will have a choice of claim knowing all the other claims, and nobody will be able to blame them for waiting for everyone else to claim first. So if they are scum and TRC was PR, they will be able to just pick whatever role TRC was without a counterclaim.

So we wait until Day 3 then for the role claim?

[Hellenic Riot]

Also, to the people that want claims now: it looks like JF has left the game. That means that if they get replaced, their replacement will have a choice of claim knowing all the other claims, and nobody will be able to blame them for waiting for everyone else to claim first. So if they are scum and TRC was PR, they will be able to just pick whatever role TRC was without a counterclaim.

Then we deal with that at the end of the game? It'll be mighty hard for a solo scum to win if we've nailed all their teammates; particularly if we can clear 6 or 7 VT's by nailing the scum in there.

Why are you so interested in doing this in the most beneficial way to scum?

Lynching the guilty is not beneficial to scum in the slightest. Having all scans used simultaneously to guarantee as many go through as possible is not beneficial to scum. Having the QM claim and potentially give us yet another clear is not beneficial to scum (especially if they did the smart thing and scanned themselves first so they know they can trust their buddy and put all future scan results in that chat).

I'm in favour of expedience.

[Hellenic Riot]

And as we can't lynch the guilty with the Scoutmaster outing themselves, and the SM is the only role to which there's any benefit at all in hiding, I do not buy that there is a good reason not to do this.

Not to mention that I can also see another excellent way to break open who the scum in the PRs is, though I won't be talking about how to do that until after all the claims are out there.

[xorxes]

Doesn't it? Having someone pocketed the entire game because you were helpful and protective for them sounds like an excellent scum move to me.

It would only count as protection if macca was scum. Town would not have needed protection from that question and town!macca would not have felt protected by Bob answering for them. It doesn't work.

Perhaps, but someone protecting you from a wild brainbomb could certainly feel welcome for a noob.

Do you think that Bob would really leap to his partner's defence there? I don't recall you pushing on Macca because of that interaction despite your stated agreement with me either.

I think I always mentioned macca and Bob together in my reads of them, because that's what started my suspicion of them. Their delayed claims that ended up as VT solidified that read. I didn't realize at the time you were arguing with Bob that you did not think that that was what made it most suspicious. I only noticed it when I was rereading you.

[xorxes]

Frankly I feel like the game can and will be broken by a full massclaim here when the scum will be down to so few people after the guilty lynch, and therefore the main reason to oppose it is if you are in fact mafia.

Three scum left is not so few, and a full reveal now helps potentially two of them to choose a role that can't be couterclaimed.