Mafia 56: Scout Camp

[Vecna]

EMC,

Can you explain your vote for thereal? You expressed desire to vote for him during day 1 but you tried to start the wagon with 1 minute left while the two main wagons were tied.

I didn't really scumread bozo nor wanted to vote for him at the time, and Macca was pleasant enough in recall that I didn't have any particular urge to vote for him either but his death would've been more preferable to bozo's, but Vecna's insistence that bozo was scum made me waffle more so I just avoided having to break the tie and plopped somewhere off wagon for the sake of posterity. Lol

I mightve been arguing with him a fair bit, but I dont really think my insistence he was scum came untill people swooped onto macca 1 min before eod.

[Vecna]

VT: damo, rdrivera, HR, bozo, Durga, Donny, summit, brainbomb, BobMcBob (9)

Macca573 (7): xorxes rdrivera2005 bozotheclown Durga summit_fever Hellenic Riot damo666

The overlap here is interesting. With at least 2 scum in the VT claims, possibly 3, Donny, brainbomb, and Bob are the only possibilities that would not have been bussing Macca.

Maybe the remaining scum are Jamie, TRC, brainbomb, and Bob.

Why do you think its so likely none of the scum bussed someone as bussable as Macca?

[Vecna]

The problem with trying to read into macca's posts is that we have no idea whether he really was confused and not sure what was happening; or if he was putting on a show the entire time. Given the wildly different conclusions we would make depending on that, I'm not even going to try there. We have a very solid lead on the way the wagons formed up and I think that's a far brighter path to head down.

It always seemed to me he was in part exaggerating his cluelessness.

My instincts these days must be really rusty that I keep missing these things that are obvious to you.

[Vecna]

VT: damo, rdrivera, HR, bozo, Durga, Donny, summit, brainbomb, BobMcBob (9)

Macca573 (7): xorxes rdrivera2005 bozotheclown Durga summit_fever Hellenic Riot damo666

The overlap here is interesting. With at least 2 scum in the VT claims, possibly 3, Donny, brainbomb, and Bob are the only possibilities that would not have been bussing Macca.

Maybe the remaining scum are Jamie, TRC, brainbomb, and Bob.

You think Donny is more towny than brainbomb? brainbomb-macca interactions don't strike me as S-S.

Neither do brainbomb-bob interactions

[Vecna]

With 17 people having already claimed do you think you still have an option to not claim? You have played enough to know the pros and cons of a massclaim and also to know that after 7 (maybe less) PR claimed there is no town reason to not claim.

I've asked a few times for people to explain the benefit of this massclaim to me, and as of yet no one has done so.

Until someone reasonably explains why it's beneficial, it seems like a scum tactic to me.

This reeks of scumminess. Regardless of whether or not it was scum-initiated the massclaim was a thing, there was no avoiding it, and not claiming had ceased to be a good idea unless you were worcej, in which case backing out early would have pretty much guaranteed a lynch. And then saying he can't see a reason it would be beneficial after 3 people had explained the benefits? Chaqa is accruing scum points at an alarming rate.

This post is certainly odd to me.

Why was this scummy for Chaqa to do, but you proclaimed it widely towny for yourself and Worcej?

Maybe chaqa was a bit later, but what was different in his stubbornness and yours? You dont think he also mightve been annoyed another game resulted in a massclaim?

[Jamiet99uk]

This game is going at quite a pace, I see.

I have some time to spare over the next couple of hours so I'll see what I can do to get an idea for what's gone on so far. I see there were calls for a massclaim and Chaqa (my predecessor in this slot) was strongly opposed. As someone who generally doesn't like massclaims I feel some sympathy for that.

It appears Worcej and Bozo (as well as me/Chaqa) were the other big wagons at various points during D1. Why did Macca suddenly rocket into first place? Did he scumslip?

[Vecna]

his problem as scum is he has a hard time coming up with genuine reads.

I told him to give genuine reads. Instead hes been robotic and true to his scum meta, and has been solely hiding behind the massclaim.

Also, theres that thing that quite a few people giving me the heebeejeebies are trying to dissuade us from wagoning him.

Okay, yeah, bozo can have his scumpoints back. This is another in the long list of things bozo has done wrong. He gave no actual reads all day, and his entire play was debate on the useless massclaim. At the very least bozo should start giving us actual reads.

I already suggested an entire remaining scum team, which you commented on.

Those werent reads though....

You just cross referenced the people voting a certain wagon with the list of VT claims

[Jamiet99uk]

Is there a post summarising accurately all of the claims that were made?

[Jamiet99uk]

It would be useful to know who did not claim, also.

[Vecna]

What I was saying was that of the 9 VT claimants, which we know contains at least 2 scum, 6 voted for Macca, so either scum was bussing Macca or the scum is contained in the other three, Donny, brainbomb, and Bob.

My speculation about the remaining scum team is based only partly on the possibility that no scum was bussing Macca, and partly on others things I have previously mentioned.

Just because there's a faint possibility that no scum decided to bus one of their least useful members doesn't mean you should build a case around it. Chances are through the roof at least one of the seven people on him was scum. What reason do they have to not bus him?

Yes, there may be a busser, but I am not sure who is most likely.

Why do you think Macca was one of the mafia's least useful members?

hmmm crap, I just realized ive been operating under the assumption Macca flipped as scum goon because the reveal stated dirty scout.

Clearly my brain still needs to realize that this is a no reveal game and that mods dont leave out words in flips regardless.

[Vecna]

I don't really consider myself a wagon. I'm not going to be the one on the block today.

You did manage to make us waste a lot of time though.

##VOTE macca

first shift onto macca
PR claim
if chaqa slot flips scum this is the deep wolf set to go to lylo

W-u-t?

[damo666]

Macca573 (7) : xorxes, rdrivera2005, bozotheclown, Durga, summit_fever, Hellenic Riot, damo666
bozotheclown (6) : JF1981, worcej, Vecna, BobMcBob, TheFlyingBoat, Chaqa worcej (2) : BismarckAlive, Macca573
brainbomb (1) : flash2015
flash2015 (1) : TheRealCottonmouth
Chaqa (1) : Donny Dude
damo666 (1) : brainbomb
TheRealCottonmouth (1) : e.m.c^42

summit also claimed VT.

It would be really weird if the scumteam was macca, Bob. Donny, TRC and one of JF/TFB. I doubt that's the case though.

@Jamie VT claimants emboldened
TRC only non claim

[Vecna]

I'm pretty sure my buddy was scum. Let's drop some quotes:

"Brainbomb is definitely mafia"

"I oppose [the massclaim]. But I don't want to be seen to oppose it, you guys are getting slammed."

"I'm trying to claim ignorance..."

"Idea.

I am VT, so if you are PR, we claim opposites and you can keep your role hidden from scum.

Is this a good plan? Or am I missing something?"

That makes bb look slightly better than he does otherwise, because why else would a scum noob say they though bb was scum in the buddy chat? Unless they were trying to signal me in case I was mafia? Not sure they would've had that idea though. The other quotes also give us a bit of insight (hopefully) into why he acted the way he did. He was overclaiming ignorance and lack of knowledge by the looks.

Hey Bob,
Who are you referring to here?
Is it Macca or yet unnamed and should remain unnamed person?

I was wondering when someone would pick up on that... I would've pointed it out later if nobody noticed, but yes, Macca was indeed my buddy. I think it may give us some decent insights into how his brain was functioning, so I dropped all the relevant quotes here.

Bro, you just gave scum free information on town pairings. They didnt know that yet.

*PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT*

The more info you give scum about pairings, the closer they will come to an endgame state where they know all the pairings and can NK 2 people/night.

STOP fucking claiming pairs

Stop fucking mentioning pairs

Stop giving information on what your partner has said that scum can use to narrow down pairs

There probably is some damo or bozo in scumchat with a spreadsheet keeping track of everything, and I bet by now they have more than half of the pairs figured out already because everyone is giving them free information

[damo666]

This game is going at quite a pace, I see.

I have some time to spare over the next couple of hours so I'll see what I can do to get an idea for what's gone on so far. I see there were calls for a massclaim and Chaqa (my predecessor in this slot) was strongly opposed. As someone who generally doesn't like massclaims I feel some sympathy for that.

It appears Worcej and Bozo (as well as me/Chaqa) were the other big wagons at various points during D1. Why did Macca suddenly rocket into first place? Did he scumslip?

Fyi my vote for Macca at last minute was when it was a tie and my reasoning was that I strongly townread Bozo. I switched from Chaqa who I had been voting to pressurized a claim.

[Jamiet99uk]

Hey Bob,
Who are you referring to here?
Is it Macca or yet unnamed and should remain unnamed person?

I was wondering when someone would pick up on that... I would've pointed it out later if nobody noticed, but yes, Macca was indeed my buddy. I think it may give us some decent insights into how his brain was functioning, so I dropped all the relevant quotes here.

Bro, you just gave scum free information on town pairings. They didnt know that yet.

*PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT*

The more info you give scum about pairings, the closer they will come to an endgame state where they know all the pairings and can NK 2 people/night.

STOP fucking claiming pairs

Stop fucking mentioning pairs

Stop giving information on what your partner has said that scum can use to narrow down pairs

There probably is some damo or bozo in scumchat with a spreadsheet keeping track of everything, and I bet by now they have more than half of the pairs figured out already because everyone is giving them free information

Scum have two nightkills?

I didn't see that in the setup info.

Confused.

[damo666]

Damo's thinking:

I assume Xorxes, Bozo, worcej and HR are town.

The following sets are listed in order of scumminess

SET A VT claimants not on Macca [ Donny, Bob, brain]

SET B PR claimants [Chaqa, JF, EMC, TFB, Fla, Bis, Vec]

SET C VT claimants that could have been bussing [rdr, Durga, summit]

Now, there are three possibilities for TRC; Scum, town PR, VT

Scenario 1 TRC is scum

Possible teams

2A +B = 3*7 = 21
A +B+C = 3*7*3 = 63
B + 2C = 7*3 = 21
Total 105

Best guess: Bob Chaqa rdr

Scenario 2

TRC town PR

Possibles are

2A + 2B = 3*21 = 63
A + 2B + C = 3*21*3 = 189
2B + 2C = 3*21 = 63
Total 315

Best guess: Bob, Chaqa, JF, rdr

Scenario 3 TRC is VT (the most probable imo)

Possibles are

3A + B = 7
2A + B + C = 3*7*3 = 63
A + B + 2C = 3*7*3 = 63
B + 3C = 7

Best guess Bob, Donny, Chaqa, rdr

Grand total 560 but obviously some are more likely than others.

A lot less than 11628 anyway.

Why you assumed HR is town? The others I can understand.

And also why I am the most likely busser when I stated I would lynch Macca even before he has a vote?

To be fair I think you summit and Durga are about as likely as each other to be bussers and i do think that no bussing is a distinct possibility. I do not particularly scum read you.

Wrt HR he is the weakest of my town assumptions but basically the timing of his vote for Macca and general tone.

[damo666]

I was wondering when someone would pick up on that... I would've pointed it out later if nobody noticed, but yes, Macca was indeed my buddy. I think it may give us some decent insights into how his brain was functioning, so I dropped all the relevant quotes here.

Bro, you just gave scum free information on town pairings. They didnt know that yet.

*PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT*

The more info you give scum about pairings, the closer they will come to an endgame state where they know all the pairings and can NK 2 people/night.

STOP fucking claiming pairs

Stop fucking mentioning pairs

Stop giving information on what your partner has said that scum can use to narrow down pairs

There probably is some damo or bozo in scumchat with a spreadsheet keeping track of everything, and I bet by now they have more than half of the pairs figured out already because everyone is giving them free information

Scum have two nightkills?

I didn't see that in the setup info.

Confused.

Faking

[damo666]

Vecna is quasi townclear to me.

People disclosing pairs are either scum or stupid. (Or lying).

[Jamiet99uk]

Bro, you just gave scum free information on town pairings. They didnt know that yet.

*PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT*

The more info you give scum about pairings, the closer they will come to an endgame state where they know all the pairings and can NK 2 people/night.

STOP fucking claiming pairs

Stop fucking mentioning pairs

Stop giving information on what your partner has said that scum can use to narrow down pairs

There probably is some damo or bozo in scumchat with a spreadsheet keeping track of everything, and I bet by now they have more than half of the pairs figured out already because everyone is giving them free information

Scum have two nightkills?

I didn't see that in the setup info.

Confused.

Faking

Sorry Damo but no I'm not.

I very rarely sub into games. I'm almost always involved from D1 so this is all a bit weird for me.

I read the setup info about the "Buddy" thing and it specifically says that if your buddy is killed, you may be assigned a new buddy. It doesn't say anything (as far as I can see) about people dying if their buddy is killed.

Although there is also a reference to some kind of secret "special" mechanic.

Has that been explained? Is that what Vecna is talking about? Or is it just a case of making assumptions?

[damo666]

Jic I am NKd my current best guess for s um is

Bob Donny Jamie and ( emc/JF/summit).

The emc/JF v summit slot is ofc TRC dependent.