Mafia 56: Scout Camp

[BobMcBob]

VT: damo, rdrivera, HR, bozo, Durga, Donny, summit, brainbomb, BobMcBob (9)

Macca573 (7): xorxes rdrivera2005 bozotheclown Durga summit_fever Hellenic Riot damo666

The overlap here is interesting. With at least 2 scum in the VT claims, possibly 3, Donny, brainbomb, and Bob are the only possibilities that would not have been bussing Macca.

Maybe the remaining scum are Jamie, TRC, brainbomb, and Bob.

Reasoning please? This makes absolutely no sense. This is just adding 7 and 9 to get 3. There is very likely at least one scum in the PR list, and not all the PRs voted for Macca. What are you even trying to say, and where is your logic? I can't make it out. And also what on earth did you plop that potential scumteam on the bottom for, it has no relevance to the rest of your post. Bozo has been highly inarticulate this game.

[BobMcBob]

I was in the Mafia team in that game. It broke the game in town's favor. You can say it break the game but not that it's bad for town, it makes no sense.

I'll condense this down for you:

Based on the setup of this game, a smart scum team should be able to take advantage of the claims in this game because nothing is truly verifiable other than alignment on flips. The scum team should at minimum have 2 PR claims and they should sort themselves into the two piles of two town PRs, thus having a 2 3-way standoff situations. The scum continue to kill in the PR pile and keep the VT pile as high as possible as we continue to lynch only in that pool.

Bismarck is correct that you seem to be advising the mafia. The only way we will have 2 scum PRs claims is if you, Chaqa, and TRC claim PR. Are you telling them that is what they should do?

To be frank, these numbers had already been discussed numerous times before as the most likely course of scum action. I fail to see how this "coaching" would be of any use since anyone reading the thread would already know these numbers and anyone not reading would not see them. He wasn't exactly throwing out "hot tips".

[xorxes]

The problem with trying to read into macca's posts is that we have no idea whether he really was confused and not sure what was happening; or if he was putting on a show the entire time. Given the wildly different conclusions we would make depending on that, I'm not even going to try there. We have a very solid lead on the way the wagons formed up and I think that's a far brighter path to head down.

It always seemed to me he was in part exaggerating his cluelessness.

[BobMcBob]

Well I’m in no rush to claim nor do I understand the benefit of doing so.

With 17 people having already claimed do you think you still have an option to not claim? You have played enough to know the pros and cons of a massclaim and also to know that after 7 (maybe less) PR claimed there is no town reason to not claim.

I agree with this. The logic of massclaiming seems straightforward.

I also agree with worcej's arguments (that this setup might not be the best to massclaim in) but the torpedo is already in the water and a bunch of PRs are sitting on the ship.

##vote chaqa

I definitely think this looks bad for Chaqa here. Refusing to claim at this point (and not even having a point to prove by not claiming, instead acting confused and unsure if it was a good decision) does not seem like a town move. Added to my scumlist.

[BobMcBob]

bozo should not be lynched today.

I am in a chat with him. and I think its better value for town at this point to just reveal this info.

Not sure what to make of this. If he is in a chat with bozo it was a bad idea to reveal it. It may have been an offhand attempt to negate tonight's NK though, because bb is the sort of guy who would reveal buddy chat for no good reason so they might actually believe him. Not my favourite move however.

[xorxes]

VT: damo, rdrivera, HR, bozo, Durga, Donny, summit, brainbomb, BobMcBob (9)

Macca573 (7): xorxes rdrivera2005 bozotheclown Durga summit_fever Hellenic Riot damo666

The overlap here is interesting. With at least 2 scum in the VT claims, possibly 3, Donny, brainbomb, and Bob are the only possibilities that would not have been bussing Macca.

Maybe the remaining scum are Jamie, TRC, brainbomb, and Bob.

You think Donny is more towny than brainbomb? brainbomb-macca interactions don't strike me as S-S.

[Donny Dude]

The problem with trying to read into macca's posts is that we have no idea whether he really was confused and not sure what was happening; or if he was putting on a show the entire time. Given the wildly different conclusions we would make depending on that, I'm not even going to try there. We have a very solid lead on the way the wagons formed up and I think that's a far brighter path to head down.

It always seemed to me he was in part exaggerating his cluelessness.

I agree, and I think he was spooked by people he knew were town as having a lot of info.

[BobMcBob]

Well I’m in no rush to claim nor do I understand the benefit of doing so.

With 17 people having already claimed do you think you still have an option to not claim? You have played enough to know the pros and cons of a massclaim and also to know that after 7 (maybe less) PR claimed there is no town reason to not claim.

I've asked a few times for people to explain the benefit of this massclaim to me, and as of yet no one has done so.

Until someone reasonably explains why it's beneficial, it seems like a scum tactic to me.

This reeks of scumminess. Regardless of whether or not it was scum-initiated the massclaim was a thing, there was no avoiding it, and not claiming had ceased to be a good idea unless you were worcej, in which case backing out early would have pretty much guaranteed a lynch. And then saying he can't see a reason it would be beneficial after 3 people had explained the benefits? Chaqa is accruing scum points at an alarming rate.

[BobMcBob]

Omg Chaqa just reveal so we can get on with our lives. Don't play like this it's anti town.

Every person who criticizes me but doesn't explain the rationale behind the massclaim is just proving my point.

If it was so pro-town, you'd all have the reasoning lined up.

Someone let you all get distracted by this nonsense the entire first day.

To be fair, he's not wrong. Someone(s) did get us distracted by the massclaim all day. It wan't a particuarly productive one. But enough people had jumped on the massclaim boat that it had already set sail. Nobody I don't have scum on said it was pro-town to start with, but it happened anyway.

[BobMcBob]

The neat thing here is there's absolutely no incentive for any town member to lynch me if i don't claim, since you'll not know whether I am VT or PR due to the alignment-only flips.

So really, you can all fuck off with your massclaim. I ain't playin that game.

I just hate Chaqa('s play) by this point. Like there is no way this is pro town. Jamiet gonna have some serious work ahead of him. Did Chaqa claim at any point later in the game or are we still blank?

[BobMcBob]

The neat thing here is there's absolutely no incentive for any town member to lynch me if i don't claim, since you'll not know whether I am VT or PR due to the alignment-only flips.

So really, you can all fuck off with your massclaim. I ain't playin that game.

To expand further for the simpleminded Red-Green players: lynching an unclaiming town member means scum can be more flexible in the rest of the game, since you'll never know if I was PR or VT and can't be sure of your math.

True. This is exactly why all town players should claim at this point.

What advantage you see for town if you don't claim?

+10

[BobMcBob]

I'll bring this up again since it got lost:

I am pretty sure my buddy is scum.

Anyone else feel that way based on their convos, or was I the only one trying to engage with them enough?

I'm pretty sure my buddy was scum. Let's drop some quotes:

"Brainbomb is definitely mafia"

"I oppose [the massclaim]. But I don't want to be seen to oppose it, you guys are getting slammed."

"I'm trying to claim ignorance..."

"Idea.

I am VT, so if you are PR, we claim opposites and you can keep your role hidden from scum.

Is this a good plan? Or am I missing something?"

That makes bb look slightly better than he does otherwise, because why else would a scum noob say they though bb was scum in the buddy chat? Unless they were trying to signal me in case I was mafia? Not sure they would've had that idea though. The other quotes also give us a bit of insight (hopefully) into why he acted the way he did. He was overclaiming ignorance and lack of knowledge by the looks.

[BismarckAlive]

To expand further for the simpleminded Red-Green players: lynching an unclaiming town member means scum can be more flexible in the rest of the game, since you'll never know if I was PR or VT and can't be sure of your math.

True. This is exactly why all town players should claim at this point.

What advantage you see for town if you don't claim?

+10

Chaqa/Jamie claimed PR to make it 8 PR claims, then Worcej popped in at the end with his PR claim to make it 9 PR claims.

[BobMcBob]

True. This is exactly why all town players should claim at this point.

What advantage you see for town if you don't claim?

+10

Chaqa/Jamie claimed PR to make it 8 PR claims, then Worcej popped in at the end with his PR claim to make it 9 PR claims.

Okay, thanks. That makes at least 3 scum VT, at least one PR and TRC is a wildcard unfortunately.

[e.m.c^42]

Damn, Bob is on a roll this game. I like this new assertive Bob.

[BobMcBob]

I'll bring this up again since it got lost:

I am pretty sure my buddy is scum.

Anyone else feel that way based on their convos, or was I the only one trying to engage with them enough?

Wouldn't it make much more sense to make a case against them without mentioning that they're your buddy? What use is it for us to know you suspect them since we don't know who they are?

I have to agree this was at the very least a poorly thought out conversation topic. At worst it was a malicious scum move but I can't say for sure. Worcej on the surface is starting to seem quite scummy but my gut still says no. I'll take a look at the main people against him later (perhaps once voting starts tomorrow) and see which side I think is more likely town.

[BobMcBob]

Damn, Bob is on a roll this game. I like this new assertive Bob.

Thanks! I'd noticed that too, and I'm not sure what changed. I'm happy to try and keep it this way though :)

[e.m.c^42]

Poor reasoning? Yeah lmao

Yes, it was absolutely terrible move when there was a tie on the table at the time. You needed to pick and decided to distance instead.

Well, be glad I didn't coz I prolly woulda picked wrong lol

[e.m.c^42]

Damn, Bob is on a roll this game. I like this new assertive Bob.

Thanks! I'd noticed that too, and I'm not sure what changed. I'm happy to try and keep it this way though :)

:fistbump:

[BobMcBob]

Also, bozo is feeling extremely tone-dead and is likely scum this game

##vote bozo

Just going to get it over with. The thought process of 'expose all PRs for a small increase to lynching' is ridiculous.

I hope theres more to it than this

Mate, the bozo wagon was a pretty reasonable wagon. It's been explained numerous times before and since why people hopped on, stop taking quotes out of context.