Mafia 56: Scout Camp

[Chaqa]

Omg Chaqa just reveal so we can get on with our lives. Don't play like this it's anti town.

Every person who criticizes me but doesn't explain the rationale behind the massclaim is just proving my point.

If it was so pro-town, you'd all have the reasoning lined up.

Someone let you all get distracted by this nonsense the entire first day.

Is it not better to know where the discrepancy is at this point? I agree we shouldn't have claimed from the get go but now I feel the information will be more valuable to us. They have enough PR's to try to kill anyway, best we should attempt to figure out where scum is hiding. What's your reluctance? You should have an idea if the PR group has some scum in it or not by this point since you're one of the three that hasn't revealed. I'm not sure what we gain now from 3 people hiding their alliance. I'd only have hesitation now if I were scum because I wouldn't want to solidify the numbers on each side.

I'm not sure if you've read them, but the last 15 games or so have had this whole massclaim debate in almost all of them, and it's really fucking played out. My reluctance is twofold:

1. I think it's quite against the spirit of the game and the mechanics-analysis style that Bozo and others have pushed into the community lately is just kinda... meh.

2. I don't see how anyone could read this setup and determine it was good for a massclaim. I didn't read it carefully at first, but I've gone back and mostly read the general info and now I'm even more confused. If roles aren't revealed, anyone could just claim whatever and we'd not know different. And, it also gives scum a really easy way to pick off PRs.

Overall I'm just pretty uncomfortable with the situation.

[rdrivera2005]

I'll condense this down for you:

Based on the setup of this game, a smart scum team should be able to take advantage of the claims in this game because nothing is truly verifiable other than alignment on flips. The scum team should at minimum have 2 PR claims and they should sort themselves into the two piles of two town PRs, thus having a 2 3-way standoff situations. The scum continue to kill in the PR pile and keep the VT pile as high as possible as we continue to lynch only in that pool.

Bismarck is correct that you seem to be advising the mafia. The only way we will have 2 scum PRs claims is if you, Chaqa, and TRC claim PR. Are you telling them that is what they should do?

No, I am putting a spotlight on the issue your massclaim had to begin with if you would've just taken the time to think it through.

It is incredibly scummy that you ignored how this claim will effect the rest of the game. You're trading the effectiveness of our town mechanics away for borderline useful information.

That's like trading a Revised Edition Volcanic Island for a Gaea's Cradle - It's a shit trade.

(shout out to my MTG homies)

Which town mechanics you find so strong. We have a split Watcher, a nerfed Cop (that doesn't know exactly who he is scanning) a Doctor and Joat that only usefull power is a one use scan that need to be used when you are NK.
We are trading some of this (cause scum can't kill all at once) for forcing scum to claim VT or PR which allows us to narrow the POE on VTs or force them on CC battles. I think it benefits towns and all games with massclaims favored town. Show me one evidence it hurts town.

[Durga]

Every person who criticizes me but doesn't explain the rationale behind the massclaim is just proving my point.

If it was so pro-town, you'd all have the reasoning lined up.

Someone let you all get distracted by this nonsense the entire first day.

Is it not better to know where the discrepancy is at this point? I agree we shouldn't have claimed from the get go but now I feel the information will be more valuable to us. They have enough PR's to try to kill anyway, best we should attempt to figure out where scum is hiding. What's your reluctance? You should have an idea if the PR group has some scum in it or not by this point since you're one of the three that hasn't revealed. I'm not sure what we gain now from 3 people hiding their alliance. I'd only have hesitation now if I were scum because I wouldn't want to solidify the numbers on each side.

I'm not sure if you've read them, but the last 15 games or so have had this whole massclaim debate in almost all of them, and it's really fucking played out. My reluctance is twofold:

1. I think it's quite against the spirit of the game and the mechanics-analysis style that Bozo and others have pushed into the community lately is just kinda... meh.

2. I don't see how anyone could read this setup and determine it was good for a massclaim. I didn't read it carefully at first, but I've gone back and mostly read the general info and now I'm even more confused. If roles aren't revealed, anyone could just claim whatever and we'd not know different. And, it also gives scum a really easy way to pick off PRs.

Overall I'm just pretty uncomfortable with the situation.

Ok great but they already have more than enough PR's to kill off and you're not gonna be at the top of the list if you are a PR and I sympathize with #1 but rn you're just making it harder for us and it's v annoying. By not revealing you're forcing the discussion on mass claiming to continue. Just die then if you're going to play anti town at this point

[rdrivera2005]

Every person who criticizes me but doesn't explain the rationale behind the massclaim is just proving my point.

If it was so pro-town, you'd all have the reasoning lined up.

Someone let you all get distracted by this nonsense the entire first day.

Is it not better to know where the discrepancy is at this point? I agree we shouldn't have claimed from the get go but now I feel the information will be more valuable to us. They have enough PR's to try to kill anyway, best we should attempt to figure out where scum is hiding. What's your reluctance? You should have an idea if the PR group has some scum in it or not by this point since you're one of the three that hasn't revealed. I'm not sure what we gain now from 3 people hiding their alliance. I'd only have hesitation now if I were scum because I wouldn't want to solidify the numbers on each side.

I'm not sure if you've read them, but the last 15 games or so have had this whole massclaim debate in almost all of them, and it's really fucking played out. My reluctance is twofold:

1. I think it's quite against the spirit of the game and the mechanics-analysis style that Bozo and others have pushed into the community lately is just kinda... meh.

2. I don't see how anyone could read this setup and determine it was good for a massclaim. I didn't read it carefully at first, but I've gone back and mostly read the general info and now I'm even more confused. If roles aren't revealed, anyone could just claim whatever and we'd not know different. And, it also gives scum a really easy way to pick off PRs.

Overall I'm just pretty uncomfortable with the situation.

Scum can't coordinate claims. They will either claim VT (which give us a narrow POE for lynches and scans) or claim PR that will need to make specific claims later which will probably get them into 1 x1 (or 2 x 1) CC battles.
The cons is narrowing the NK and RB pool too, but our PRs are so weak I think it's a good deal.

[Chaqa]

The neat thing here is there's absolutely no incentive for any town member to lynch me if i don't claim, since you'll not know whether I am VT or PR due to the alignment-only flips.

So really, you can all fuck off with your massclaim. I ain't playin that game.

[Chaqa]

The neat thing here is there's absolutely no incentive for any town member to lynch me if i don't claim, since you'll not know whether I am VT or PR due to the alignment-only flips.

So really, you can all fuck off with your massclaim. I ain't playin that game.

To expand further for the simpleminded Red-Green players: lynching an unclaiming town member means scum can be more flexible in the rest of the game, since you'll never know if I was PR or VT and can't be sure of your math.

[rdrivera2005]

The neat thing here is there's absolutely no incentive for any town member to lynch me if i don't claim, since you'll not know whether I am VT or PR due to the alignment-only flips.

So really, you can all fuck off with your massclaim. I ain't playin that game.

To expand further for the simpleminded Red-Green players: lynching an unclaiming town member means scum can be more flexible in the rest of the game, since you'll never know if I was PR or VT and can't be sure of your math.

True. This is exactly why all town players should claim at this point.

What advantage you see for town if you don't claim?

[Durga]

If you're town I'm sure the mafia are very happy with your stance Chaqa. If you dislike the game, maybe sub out?

[Chaqa]

If you're town I'm sure the mafia are very happy with your stance Chaqa. If you dislike the game, maybe sub out?

In my mind, mafia are happy with the rest of you dancing to their massclaim scheme. Why would I sub out due to disliking the game? That's silly, we'll need those subs for the newbies who will inevitably drop out or for when EMC forgets to vote.

[bozotheclown]

The neat thing here is there's absolutely no incentive for any town member to lynch me if i don't claim, since you'll not know whether I am VT or PR due to the alignment-only flips.

So really, you can all fuck off with your massclaim. I ain't playin that game.

It won't be a problem if you flip scum.

[Chaqa]

The neat thing here is there's absolutely no incentive for any town member to lynch me if i don't claim, since you'll not know whether I am VT or PR due to the alignment-only flips.

So really, you can all fuck off with your massclaim. I ain't playin that game.

To expand further for the simpleminded Red-Green players: lynching an unclaiming town member means scum can be more flexible in the rest of the game, since you'll never know if I was PR or VT and can't be sure of your math.

True. This is exactly why all town players should claim at this point.

What advantage you see for town if you don't claim?

Sometimes a protest doesn't have a clearly defined point.

[worcej]

Bismarck is correct that you seem to be advising the mafia. The only way we will have 2 scum PRs claims is if you, Chaqa, and TRC claim PR. Are you telling them that is what they should do?

No, I am putting a spotlight on the issue your massclaim had to begin with if you would've just taken the time to think it through.

It is incredibly scummy that you ignored how this claim will effect the rest of the game. You're trading the effectiveness of our town mechanics away for borderline useful information.

That's like trading a Revised Edition Volcanic Island for a Gaea's Cradle - It's a shit trade.

(shout out to my MTG homies)

Which town mechanics you find so strong. We have a split Watcher, a nerfed Cop (that doesn't know exactly who he is scanning) a Doctor and Joat that only usefull power is a one use scan that need to be used when you are NK.
We are trading some of this (cause scum can't kill all at once) for forcing scum to claim VT or PR which allows us to narrow the POE on VTs or force them on CC battles. I think it benefits towns and all games with massclaims favored town. Show me one evidence it hurts town.

I never said it did not benefit town, I said it benefits scum more because they already have an advantage and we are adding to it.

In essence, you are saying that you are willing to throw the PR's, however weak they can be, away for the information you outlined above. Paraphrasing significantly, you want the town to mostly just be VTs and the scum keep their powers.

My whole stance is that's bullshit and a bad play for town - the PRs are the thorn in the side of the scum and removing it for them makes it easier for them to win, which we shouldn't be trying to do.

[Chaqa]

The neat thing here is there's absolutely no incentive for any town member to lynch me if i don't claim, since you'll not know whether I am VT or PR due to the alignment-only flips.

So really, you can all fuck off with your massclaim. I ain't playin that game.

It won't be a problem if you flip scum.

lol I'd never give you the satisfaction bozo.

[worcej]

I'll bring this up again since it got lost:

I am pretty sure my buddy is scum.

Anyone else feel that way based on their convos, or was I the only one trying to engage with them enough?

[brainbomb]

The neat thing here is there's absolutely no incentive for any town member to lynch me if i don't claim, since you'll not know whether I am VT or PR due to the alignment-only flips.

So really, you can all fuck off with your massclaim. I ain't playin that game.

It won't be a problem if you flip scum.

lol I'd never give you the satisfaction bozo.

...strange to say when bozo is lead wagon and hes outted as in a chat with me

[brainbomb]

I'll bring this up again since it got lost:

I am pretty sure my buddy is scum.

Anyone else feel that way based on their convos, or was I the only one trying to engage with them enough?

I strongly doubt bozo is scum.

[rdrivera2005]

To expand further for the simpleminded Red-Green players: lynching an unclaiming town member means scum can be more flexible in the rest of the game, since you'll never know if I was PR or VT and can't be sure of your math.

True. This is exactly why all town players should claim at this point.

What advantage you see for town if you don't claim?

Sometimes a protest doesn't have a clearly defined point.

Screwing with your team to make a point is a shitty way to protest.
If you want to protest on the main Mafia post that we should have setups that can't have massclaims I will be the first to support you.
But in this game you are just hurting town.

[Donny Dude]

I'll bring this up again since it got lost:

I am pretty sure my buddy is scum.

Anyone else feel that way based on their convos, or was I the only one trying to engage with them enough?

I feel like mine may be too
Very not talkative at all

[worcej]

I'll bring this up again since it got lost:

I am pretty sure my buddy is scum.

Anyone else feel that way based on their convos, or was I the only one trying to engage with them enough?

I strongly doubt bozo is scum.

Based on your conversation with him?

[Chaqa]

It won't be a problem if you flip scum.

lol I'd never give you the satisfaction bozo.

...strange to say when bozo is lead wagon and hes outted as in a chat with me

I didn't know he was in a chat with you, but how does that factor into this?