Mafia 56: Scout Camp

[worcej]

In terms of horrible numbers, what really stuck out to me was bozo saying that if we had more than 8 PR claims we should get all the PRs to claim roles so that we can root out mafia. I cannot see any way that getting 1 or 2 mafia into a group of three to lynch from while simultaneously revealing exactly where to hit to nullify our best PR actions is a good thing. Not only that, he thought that (assuming one scum claimed Medic and one claimed cool guy) that a 1/3 chance of lynching correctly out of a pool of 2 PRs and one scum was a good deal. I can see no way town benefits from that. And I don't think bozo is stupid enough to mess up the numbers that badly.

I believe the mass claim benefits town if the scum choose to do that. However, we do not need to do the full mass claim immediately, certainly not D1. Maybe N1 if more than 1 scum claim PR.

Why would you want to allow the scum to coordinate their PR claims?

If you don't want them to coordinate the piles on D1, you would need them to not coordinate the claims for roles.

You are so obviously scum.

[worcej]

I think Bozo is right.

I am gonna ko the massclaim

I am not a PR

First annoying person found on re-read. Not shocked.

Would love some of your spicy original recipe tales from the maf crypt with how damo thinks as a wolflord

Damo is actually a great wolf - he posts short and sweet and doesn't stick his neck out while stating his opinions.

[damo666]

14/20 claims is now getting up there. There is no telling how many scum are in the 14 claimants, nor how many left in the 6 that have not claimed. Also, no way of knowing who in the 6 PRs are scum etc.

I am philosophically opposed to massclaims. I don't think it is in the spirit of the game - the fun is in the uncertainty, the management of information, the hunting, the conniving etc. On this, I agree with brainbomb, Vecna, Worcej and the others that have resisted this. Is there something in who resisted / who pushed this? Who does it benefit most? Is the mafia knowing the 8 PRs more or less valuable than the information we get? Some have tried to work this out, but we will only know if everybody claims.

My vote on Worcej is NOT because of his stance. I have a similar stance. I am voting for him because I think he tried coaching the newbie scum. And I can be convinced otherwise.

In the interests of the exercise proving its worth or not, and despite my abhorrence at what I am about to do, I claim PR.

I urge all Town to claim, and thus help test the thesis.

Why did you doctor the quote to appear as if you had already claimed?

just to make it easy to see the result at that time. I didn't know when I posted it that Macca had claimed as well. I was just trying to be helpful...

OK no big deal.

[worcej]

If you have yet to realize the frustration Vecna and myself are projecting - it's annoying that we turn a game of subterfuge into and stop actually really scum hunting via actions/words and instead just start sorting out piles.

If I wanted that, I'd play 52 card pickup.

<3

Lets do it one last time worcej. If we manage to kill it this game, going forward were goong to demanf closed setups, or vanilla-only open setups.

I sort of knew this was going to be the issue as soon as I saw the setup. probably shouldve hammered harder for more anto claim.

but yes, u nailed it. was looking forward to some subterfuge

simple correction by just making a setup where if you claim or soft you get vanillized.

Another option for my future games.

[Vecna]

Also, noone has yet stated what the next step will look like. Maybe further claims arent needed, depending on the last three claims.

Maybe some of us who have changed their mind came up with cunning plans to abuse this further that they havent revealed yet. Who knows.

[worcej]

So why not bozo?

Well there is a reason. and its a good one. Its because bozo is easy to read, always useful late, and has an easy to spot scum style.

So why or why not worcej?

Well the why is that he is hard to read. but thats literally it.
The why not is that hes a fun competitor long term. And its a curiousity why hes abstaining from massclaim.

What's funny is you've said I am easy to read in the past.

Typical WIFOM BB lol

[damo666]

I see that damo has once again come in, and has this time made some aggro posts about mechanics while continuing to add absolutely nothing to debates about who is actually scum. My vote on him intensifies.

It's day 1

[worcej]

The big topic we shouldve covered was how a flipless game changes information lynches. We always assume games without info are terrible. Most lynches this game will be based on volume, who seems reactionary, what posts contain perceptual flaws, and what chat pairings result in deaths.

If someone ends up in an empty chat its worth noting.
additionally dont forsake instinct. gut feelings are crucial in a flipless game. its eaay to lose scent and dive into radical theories on scumteams, w/w tinfoil and bus conspiracies. Trust me. Thats basically all I am.

That being said, when theres no flips theres no bussing. because whats the point?

We learn alignment, so bussing still works.

[worcej]

I see that damo has once again come in, and has this time made some aggro posts about mechanics while continuing to add absolutely nothing to debates about who is actually scum. My vote on him intensifies.

It's day 1

Also, it fits your scum game.

[damo666]

I see that damo has once again come in, and has this time made some aggro posts about mechanics while continuing to add absolutely nothing to debates about who is actually scum. My vote on him intensifies.

It's day 1

Also, it fits your scum game.

Got to protect the meta!

[damo666]

First annoying person found on re-read. Not shocked.

Would love some of your spicy original recipe tales from the maf crypt with how damo thinks as a wolflord

Damo is actually a great wolf - he posts short and sweet and doesn't stick his neck out while stating his opinions.

[worcej]

On what experience are you basing this assessment of worcej?

Why did you +1 this post but not answer it?

I have played enough games with Worcej to know (1) he is a great player, hard to read, and (2) his wall on the bot was way different to what I remember from our joint games in that in this one he seems to be coaching by hypothesising with the massclaim numbers. I have never seen him doing that...I think it is because he saw how many newbies there were, did his sums, and just needed to give them some massclaim strategy...

I think this marks the first time I've ever been labeled as great.

In regards to never doing it - the last time I didn't was because I was scum and was keeping my head down, but was seething on the inside. Kitsune tried to make a cool game, but she neutered the mafia team because there was only 3 of us and 6-8 town PRs (cannot remember the exact number).

In that game, we did the exact same thing as we are doing now - PR vs VT. The issue with her game was that the scum was too small in comparison to the town on D1 because she built in the reaver team (scum 2) too heavily into the balance, which resulted in a terribly weak scum situation on D1, and that the PRs for town were easily confirmable to drop the numbers lower.

To give squigs credit for this game now, there are little ways to confirm most of the PRs for town, so that makes it more scum balanced to begin with. Then couple in the protection granted by not telling certain PRs their letters, which makes it so the scum never have to claim one of those and can keep at least two members hidden makes it even better for them.

[damo666]

Im not a VT

Dirty Lazy Scout?

[worcej]

Why did you +1 this post but not answer it?

I have played enough games with Worcej to know (1) he is a great player, hard to read, and (2) his wall on the bot was way different to what I remember from our joint games in that in this one he seems to be coaching by hypothesising with the massclaim numbers. I have never seen him doing that...I think it is because he saw how many newbies there were, did his sums, and just needed to give them some massclaim strategy...

How many games have you played with worcej?

I hope this gets responded to.

[worcej]

I have played enough games with Worcej to know (1) he is a great player, hard to read, and (2) his wall on the bot was way different to what I remember from our joint games in that in this one he seems to be coaching by hypothesising with the massclaim numbers. I have never seen him doing that...I think it is because he saw how many newbies there were, did his sums, and just needed to give them some massclaim strategy...

How many games have you played with worcej?

This is the 3rd I think, and he always lasts quite a bit...

Because people think I suck (imho)

[worcej]

How many games have you played with worcej?

This is the 3rd I think, and he always lasts quite a bit...

Were they all on this site?

I only play here FWIW

[worcej]

How many games have you played with worcej?

This is the 3rd I think, and he always lasts quite a bit...

Survival does not necessarily equate to goodness

Looks like my own opinion was backed up by damo lol

[brainbomb]

How many games have you played with worcej?

This is the 3rd I think, and he always lasts quite a bit...

Because people think I suck (imho)

I dont. im also not really lynching you today amigo

[brainbomb]

I could see rivera being scum here too.

[worcej]

Were they all on this site?

yes

As far as I can tell, you have only played in M37, M38, and M55. M38 was terminated after D2, and worcej was the GM of M55.

Seconding this line - because I was curious where the hell Bismark got an impression of me that seemed to fake.

But people can have an impression based on reading games too. I still think bozo is being more scummy than a possible slip from Bismarck.