Mafia 56: Scout Camp

[BismarckAlive]

Not sure if worcej being so careless with these numbers means he is more likely town or scum. I'm leaning town.

Interesting...I lean scum. Worcej is way too cunning. He was trying to fuel the massclaim car by making it sound better...

Do you still think that's what worcej was doing?

Thing is, if Worcej is scum, his whole wall COULD BE SEEN as him coaching the newbies (he may think there are a whole lot of newbies in the mafia team). If, for example, the massclaim thing stuck (which it sort of has), then the newbie scums would claim PR based on his coaching. I agree with Worcej and Vecna on massclaims, but nothing Worcej has done points to Town just yet.

[bozotheclown]

In terms of horrible numbers, what really stuck out to me was bozo saying that if we had more than 8 PR claims we should get all the PRs to claim roles so that we can root out mafia. I cannot see any way that getting 1 or 2 mafia into a group of three to lynch from while simultaneously revealing exactly where to hit to nullify our best PR actions is a good thing. Not only that, he thought that (assuming one scum claimed Medic and one claimed cool guy) that a 1/3 chance of lynching correctly out of a pool of 2 PRs and one scum was a good deal. I can see no way town benefits from that. And I don't think bozo is stupid enough to mess up the numbers that badly.

I believe the mass claim benefits town if the scum choose to do that. However, we do not need to do the full mass claim immediately, certainly not D1. Maybe N1 if more than 1 scum claim PR.

[bozotheclown]

Interesting...I lean scum. Worcej is way too cunning. He was trying to fuel the massclaim car by making it sound better...

Do you still think that's what worcej was doing?

Thing is, if Worcej is scum, his whole wall COULD BE SEEN as him coaching the newbies (he may think there are a whole lot of newbies in the mafia team). If, for example, the massclaim thing stuck (which it sort of has), then the newbie scums would claim PR based on his coaching. I agree with Worcej and Vecna on massclaims, but nothing Worcej has done points to Town just yet.

Are you going to make a PR/VT claim?

[bozotheclown]

Ok, some questions.

If I am a PR, what benefit would get from claiming either? Claiming PR for constancy, or VT to stop myself getting killed?

If I'm a VT what benefit could be got from lying and saying PR?

If I'm Scum, what benefit would I get from either choice?

Knowing how other peoples real states impact their choices is vital in understanding the effects of the massclaim. I don't wish to participate in something I don't understand.

If you are town, no matter if VT or PR you say the truth. If one town lie it screw with all the massclaim benefits.

If you are scum I will not give you hints.

Sorry this was unclear. These questions are not asking for what I should do. They are trying to find out how we understand outcome to action. i.e. Once we have everyone's claims, how do judge truth and move forwards?

Hopefully we can assume all town claimed accurately, we do not want any town to deceive the rest of the town here. The number of PR and VT claims will tell us how many mafia are in each group. So, to answer your first 2 questions, there is no town benefit from you claiming something which is not true.

If town, are you ready to accurately claim your role? If not, we do not have much choice but to assume you are scum and lynch you soon.

[bozotheclown]

PR: xorxes, Vecna, flash, emc, TFB
VT: damo, rdrivera, HR, bozo, Durga, Donny, summit

Have not heard from since PR/VT mass claim began:
brainbomb, Chaqa, TRC

Others:
worcej, Bob, Macca, JF, Bismarck

[brainbomb]

PR: xorxes, Vecna, flash, emc, TFB
VT: damo, rdrivera, HR, bozo, Durga, Donny, summit

Have not heard from since PR/VT mass claim began:
brainbomb, Chaqa, TRC

Others:
worcej, Bob, Macca, JF, Bismarck

VT alas, we cant all be fun

[brainbomb]

I think Bozo is right.

I am gonna ko the massclaim

I am not a PR

First annoying person found on re-read. Not shocked.

Would love some of your spicy original recipe tales from the maf crypt with how damo thinks as a wolflord

[brainbomb]

As usual, I believe we have a difference of opinion on what constitutes "proper mafia". My idea of "proper mafia" is to do everything you can within the rules to win.

If you have yet to realize the frustration Vecna and myself are projecting - it's annoying that we turn a game of subterfuge into and stop actually really scum hunting via actions/words and instead just start sorting out piles.

If I wanted that, I'd play 52 card pickup.

<3

Lets do it one last time worcej. If we manage to kill it this game, going forward were goong to demanf closed setups, or vanilla-only open setups.

I sort of knew this was going to be the issue as soon as I saw the setup. probably shouldve hammered harder for more anto claim.

but yes, u nailed it. was looking forward to some subterfuge

simple correction by just making a setup where if you claim or soft you get vanillized.

[brainbomb]

##vote damo
##vote xorxes
##vote bozo

lead it. you started it.

this is more what you do when you wanna play roman emperor time waster scum lord.

[brainbomb]

Still, this play is risky as heck and being this stubborn has a high chance of getting him lynched. Especially with the number of complete noobs who can easily be swayed by the scum elements of this game, he's offering himself up as a very likely lynch. I can almost guarantee there will be at least 2 scum on worcej no matter which way he flips though, so at least we get information I guess. And getting a little bit information as a trade-up for unfortunate deaths is the whole point of the massclaim right?

This post started well with the Worcej analysis (I think he is town) but ended pretty badly with the resignation to lynch him and that bullshit about getting info on his lynch.
What info do you get if Worcej is lynched today, specially in a policy lynch?

##vote Bob

Oh the second part? You think i was being serious? Funnily enough, that's what worcej was slammed for early on. Of course I think lynching him is a horrible idea, I was mocking the idea of a massclaim because it too gives us little information for a trade-off of unfortunate death. I'm not going to lynch him, and I don't think anyone else should either.

Bob has debated most of this day. I wouldve hoped there would be something fun to read. This looks more like bo trying to debate a walrus.

[brainbomb]

Just because two people had actually claimed doesnt mean there werent a few more advocating for it.

I felt myself get annoyed at Xorxes and Damo. Either I was going to get angry and engage them in a toxic fight and be stubborn and reduce town's odds of getting a positive outcome of this situation where they had already jumped the gun, or just change my mind and help them execute a plan. I think I chose the better option.

Also, there is no need for you to be overly worried about my situation. Im a big boy and I can take care of myself.

HR has a point, I do not know how you went from this:

"Right now, scum is 5/20 players. We increase our odds of lynching scum by 5-8% by sacrificing nearly all PR potential we have. A very bad deal. On top of ruining another mafia game by making it boring."

to this:

"Setups like this are inherently flawed. Scum does not have daychat. They can not coordinate on how to handle this properly on day1. I see the town upside to it, but I feel it is a boring and cheesy way to solve the game."

This kind of inconsistency actually does make me lean town on Vecna tho. I don't see the benefit of doing this as scum.

Btw I'm VT

Actually, this is not bad. I understand the concept. its completely batshit to buy into en masse but it does work for vec

[brainbomb]

Bozo, I want you to do other stuff than involve yourself in this mass-claim process.

I want reads, and participation.

If not ill push hard for your D1 lynch. Youre not going to hide behind this massclaim and mechanics solely.

Lordship
very interesting to coach bozo here. I think we discussed 10 games back how bozo was in your opinion : the easiest read on webdip.

and Go:

[brainbomb]

For those that have been playing this for a long time, quite a bit is discernible from just the chat (or so they want to make themselves believe at leasT). Thats what this game is all about. You cannot just wait and sit around for stuff to happen. You make it happen yourself by ruffling feathers and creating discussion to determine which people are honestly trying to figure shit out, and which people are just bullshitting around to try and appear as such.

This is actually a very helpful summary. I think actively hunting is what I struggle with, I just kind of plop reads and assume that's enough... Thanks for clearing that up. Now I just have to work out how to actually go about hunting.

I dont have words to express the ass kissing taking place here

[TheMadMonarch]

If you are town, no matter if VT or PR you say the truth. If one town lie it screw with all the massclaim benefits.

If you are scum I will not give you hints.

Sorry this was unclear. These questions are not asking for what I should do. They are trying to find out how we understand outcome to action. i.e. Once we have everyone's claims, how do judge truth and move forwards?

Hopefully we can assume all town claimed accurately, we do not want any town to deceive the rest of the town here. The number of PR and VT claims will tell us how many mafia are in each group. So, to answer your first 2 questions, there is no town benefit from you claiming something which is not true.

If town, are you ready to accurately claim your role? If not, we do not have much choice but to assume you are scum and lynch you soon.

If we know how much mafia are in each group, how does that then help us? There's still more town in each group as well?

[brainbomb]

HR actually looks pretty scathing, and its not a colossal sinister cat move like ive seen in his many scum rands

[brainbomb]

macca has looked lost. at one point asked for advice on what to do if he was scum.

lol

[brainbomb]

I do like the repeated statements that certain people seem omnipotent and omniscient however. Seems like his goto paranoia is TMI players.

[brainbomb]

bozotheclown (5) JF1981 worcej Vecna BobMcBob TheFlyingBoat
worcej (4) e.m.c^42 BismarckAlive damo666 bozotheclown
BobMcBob (2) brainbomb xorxes
Unvote (2) summit_fever rdrivera2005
brainbomb (1) flash2015
flash2015 (1) TheRealCottonmouth
e.m.c^42 (1) Chaqa
xorxes (1) Macca573
damo666 (1) Hellenic Riot


Non-votes
Donny Dude
Durga


Who tf are half these people lol?

I am brainbomb

also ##Vote worcej

[bozotheclown]

Sorry this was unclear. These questions are not asking for what I should do. They are trying to find out how we understand outcome to action. i.e. Once we have everyone's claims, how do judge truth and move forwards?

Hopefully we can assume all town claimed accurately, we do not want any town to deceive the rest of the town here. The number of PR and VT claims will tell us how many mafia are in each group. So, to answer your first 2 questions, there is no town benefit from you claiming something which is not true.

If town, are you ready to accurately claim your role? If not, we do not have much choice but to assume you are scum and lynch you soon.

If we know how much mafia are in each group, how does that then help us? There's still more town in each group as well?

If they claim PR, they will have to claim an exact role of a real town PR, if the majority claim VT, the percentage of scum in the VTs goes up.

[brainbomb]

So why not bozo?

Well there is a reason. and its a good one. Its because bozo is easy to read, always useful late, and has an easy to spot scum style.

So why or why not worcej?

Well the why is that he is hard to read. but thats literally it.
The why not is that hes a fun competitor long term. And its a curiousity why hes abstaining from massclaim.