Mafia 56: Scout Camp

[Vecna]

##vote damo
##vote xorxes
##vote bozo

lead it. you started it.

[BobMcBob]

Okay, voting time. ##Vote bozo because all his reasons for massclaiming are weak as heck. Just look through what he's saying and try not to laugh. The numbers are so bad, but he's focusing on them and nothing else, which seems like plain dumb at best. And bozo ain't dumb.

I blatantly refuse to vote for worcej as I agree with everything (or at least almost everything) he said. I believe most of those voting for him are scum or clueless, and once I get access to the bot again (or maybe even before then) I'll try to work out which is which.

[Hellenic Riot]

“He isn’t cooperating, get him!” is a pretty shit excuse.

Ask yourself this: What scum motivation do I have to stand my ground and be obstinate?

How does eliminating a non-participant in any way advance your chances of catching scum?

Playing devil's advocate, you could have the motivation so that you could use this exact argument...

Still, this play is risky as heck and being this stubborn has a high chance of getting him lynched. Especially with the number of complete noobs who can easily be swayed by the scum elements of this game, he's offering himself up as a very likely lynch. I can almost guarantee there will be at least 2 scum on worcej no matter which way he flips though, so at least we get information I guess. And getting a little bit information as a trade-up for unfortunate deaths is the whole point of the massclaim right?

I have no particular desire to vote worcej at this time, though I would prefer that instead of focusing on the massclaim/refusing to take part, he use his time to actually look for mafia, because the more time we spend discussing said massclaim the better from the mafia perspective. If he's going to hold out, he can at least start looking to generate other content instead.

I'm quite content on my damo vote now that he's returned and completely ignored it despite throwing an OMGUS out.

[xorxes]

## vote flash2015

Don't leave a space between the ## and the "vote" because the bot won't recognize it if you do.

This is the bot, for the new players:
http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/front_page

my bad, ##vote flash2015

@TRC, are you going to play? It's been more than a day since your vote and we have not heard anything else from you. Flash has claimed PR, so not the ideal place to park a vote unless you are scumreading him hard?

[xorxes]

Okay, I skimmed this first 10 pages or so, nothing stuck out. I'll have to go back and +1 everything when I re-read it more later. That was a nice way of keeping track of my place.

I was joking originally, but ##Vote EMC

It's way out of character for him to actually vote, and as much as I love him, he's definitely not town if he's voting this early.

@Chaqa, can you give us an update on your thoughts on the game?

[TheMadMonarch]

I'm just scared of someone with a lot more information than me. You could have town read me, and I'd be just the same.

I think Macca is a player who thinks we are talking to him when we are not.

This'll be fun :D

Macca does seem a bit panicked though, I cannot tell if lost or just paranoia lunging for shadows.
Does seem scummy to me.

Definitely panicked. As I've stated before, I get scared when people have more information than me. And all this massclaiming stuff is getting (read: is) very confusing.

[xorxes]

We know there are 10 buddy pairs, of which most likely 4 contain a scum (assumes one is S-S, the rest are S-T)

Not sure if worcej being so careless with these numbers means he is more likely town or scum. I'm leaning town.

Interesting...I lean scum. Worcej is way too cunning. He was trying to fuel the massclaim car by making it sound better...

Do you still think that's what worcej was doing?

[xorxes]

I think Macca is a player who thinks we are talking to him when we are not.

This'll be fun :D

Macca does seem a bit panicked though, I cannot tell if lost or just paranoia lunging for shadows.
Does seem scummy to me.

Definitely panicked. As I've stated before, I get scared when people have more information than me. And all this massclaiming stuff is getting (read: is) very confusing.

Ask for clatification if something is unclear instead of panicking.

What information do you think I have that you don't?

What did brainbomb say that made you think he had too much information when you voted for him?

Why did you vote for Bob as your first vote?

[TheFlyingBoat]

Okay, voting time. ##Vote bozo because all his reasons for massclaiming are weak as heck. Just look through what he's saying and try not to laugh. The numbers are so bad, but he's focusing on them and nothing else, which seems like plain dumb at best. And bozo ain't dumb.

I blatantly refuse to vote for worcej as I agree with everything (or at least almost everything) he said. I believe most of those voting for him are scum or clueless, and once I get access to the bot again (or maybe even before then) I'll try to work out which is which.

That actually makes sense to me. I argued earlier that it was fucking dumb but figured if everyone was doing it that was the meta here and we could try to "solve" the game off a mass claim and if there were only a couple hold outs we could threaten to kill them to force compliance but seeing as he's being genuinely obstinate I don't see any hope of changing that and I don't actually think he is scum. Especially since there is a large mass of people refusing to claim now I'm willing to recognize the flaws in my initial response to his refusal. As a result let's go with ##vote bozo

[bozotheclown]

Okay, voting time. ##Vote bozo because all his reasons for massclaiming are weak as heck. Just look through what he's saying and try not to laugh. The numbers are so bad, but he's focusing on them and nothing else, which seems like plain dumb at best. And bozo ain't dumb.

I blatantly refuse to vote for worcej as I agree with everything (or at least almost everything) he said. I believe most of those voting for him are scum or clueless, and once I get access to the bot again (or maybe even before then) I'll try to work out which is which.

Can you please be more specific in what numbers you think are bad? Do you plan to refuse to participate in the mass PR/VT claim because you disagree with it?

[bozotheclown]

Okay, voting time. ##Vote bozo because all his reasons for massclaiming are weak as heck. Just look through what he's saying and try not to laugh. The numbers are so bad, but he's focusing on them and nothing else, which seems like plain dumb at best. And bozo ain't dumb.

I blatantly refuse to vote for worcej as I agree with everything (or at least almost everything) he said. I believe most of those voting for him are scum or clueless, and once I get access to the bot again (or maybe even before then) I'll try to work out which is which.

That actually makes sense to me. I argued earlier that it was fucking dumb but figured if everyone was doing it that was the meta here and we could try to "solve" the game off a mass claim and if there were only a couple hold outs we could threaten to kill them to force compliance but seeing as he's being genuinely obstinate I don't see any hope of changing that and I don't actually think he is scum. Especially since there is a large mass of people refusing to claim now I'm willing to recognize the flaws in my initial response to his refusal. As a result let's go with ##vote bozo

Why do you think there is a large mass of people refusing to claim? As far as I can tell, only worcej has refused to claim, and I believe he has already backed off of that and said he would claim after the other 19 players claim.

[Durga]

I'm sick of debating this. I didn't like the mass claim but I feel like at this point it would be foolish to stop now? Can we figure it out and move on already.

[rdrivera2005]

“He isn’t cooperating, get him!” is a pretty shit excuse.

Ask yourself this: What scum motivation do I have to stand my ground and be obstinate?

How does eliminating a non-participant in any way advance your chances of catching scum?

Playing devil's advocate, you could have the motivation so that you could use this exact argument...

Still, this play is risky as heck and being this stubborn has a high chance of getting him lynched. Especially with the number of complete noobs who can easily be swayed by the scum elements of this game, he's offering himself up as a very likely lynch. I can almost guarantee there will be at least 2 scum on worcej no matter which way he flips though, so at least we get information I guess. And getting a little bit information as a trade-up for unfortunate deaths is the whole point of the massclaim right?

This post started well with the Worcej analysis (I think he is town) but ended pretty badly with the resignation to lynch him and that bullshit about getting info on his lynch.
What info do you get if Worcej is lynched today, specially in a policy lynch?

##vote Bob

[bozotheclown]

PR: xorxes, Vecna, flash, emc, TFB
VT: damo, rdrivera, HR, bozo, Durga, Donny, summit
Not Participating: worcej

Have not heard from since PR/VT mass claim began:
Bismarck, brainbomb, Chaqa, TRC

Others:
Bob, Macca, JF

[rdrivera2005]

Okay, voting time. ##Vote bozo because all his reasons for massclaiming are weak as heck. Just look through what he's saying and try not to laugh. The numbers are so bad, but he's focusing on them and nothing else, which seems like plain dumb at best. And bozo ain't dumb.

I blatantly refuse to vote for worcej as I agree with everything (or at least almost everything) he said. I believe most of those voting for him are scum or clueless, and once I get access to the bot again (or maybe even before then) I'll try to work out which is which.

Which numbers are so bad? If you are against the massclaim state a clear reason, otherwise just claim.

[summit_fever]

I'm not sure why anybody new would suggest mass claiming is dumb. This setup was apparently vulnerable to massclaiming given vecna's first post in the sign-up thread and Squigs subsequent modification to the setup.

I do agree with flying that worcej isn't going to respond to pressure and it's pointless to try. I haven't seen anything scummy in worcej except for the fact that refusing to join the claim has caused all kinds of sidetracked conversation.

Given that the massclaim gained traction I think it's important that we get it done with as quickly as possible so we can move on. Can a non 100% massclaim ever benefit town compared to just getting it over with?

I don't like either one of the main wagons.

##unvote

[bozotheclown]

I think Macca is a player who thinks we are talking to him when we are not.

This'll be fun :D

Macca does seem a bit panicked though, I cannot tell if lost or just paranoia lunging for shadows.
Does seem scummy to me.

Definitely panicked. As I've stated before, I get scared when people have more information than me. And all this massclaiming stuff is getting (read: is) very confusing.

Can you please ask us any questions you have about the mass claim? Do you plan on participating in the mass claim? The only claim we are looking for is PR or VT, not your specific role or the identity of your buddy.

[rdrivera2005]

The fact youre advocating for a mass-claim, and then state straight after you will lynch whoever does not claim, means youre just rolefishing and/or looking for an easy out to not have to solve Xorxes. You do not actually want to do this to "increase our chances of winning".

Lynching unclaimed people immediately ruins the entire strategy, since you immediately have a flip that can never be verified. Meaning you will never know how many scum youre dealing with in the pool of PRs and VTs.

Did not really think that through now did you?

You cannot force this strategy if people refuse to participate. Ive told you I will not. I will die and take my role to the grave before I claim.

Now, you can try and spin it in such a way that you wanna call my bluff, or think id only do this as scum, but you know very well youre never going to win that one.

Off the top of my head:
Mass-claiming ruined the UK Parliament game.
Mass-claiming ruined the mafia team in the Serenity game.

This game doesn't break it, but it also isn't worth the cost. Scum will come out on top from the claims.

Also off the top of my head: didn't town won on both games you commented?

[xorxes]

I'm sick of debating this. I didn't like the mass claim but I feel like at this point it would be foolish to stop now? Can we figure it out and move on already.

PR: xorxes, Vecna, flash, emc, TFB
VT: damo, rdrivera, HR, bozo, Durga, Donny, summit
Not Participating: worcej

People who have not claimed besides worcej: macca, Bob, JF, Bismark, Chaqa, brainbomb, TRC.

Last four have not posted in the last 20 hours.JF asked what a VT was and then disappeared. Bob and macca have posted recently but said nothing.

Massclaim aside Durga, who do you think is being scummy?

[BobMcBob]

Playing devil's advocate, you could have the motivation so that you could use this exact argument...

Still, this play is risky as heck and being this stubborn has a high chance of getting him lynched. Especially with the number of complete noobs who can easily be swayed by the scum elements of this game, he's offering himself up as a very likely lynch. I can almost guarantee there will be at least 2 scum on worcej no matter which way he flips though, so at least we get information I guess. And getting a little bit information as a trade-up for unfortunate deaths is the whole point of the massclaim right?

This post started well with the Worcej analysis (I think he is town) but ended pretty badly with the resignation to lynch him and that bullshit about getting info on his lynch.
What info do you get if Worcej is lynched today, specially in a policy lynch?

##vote Bob

Oh the second part? You think i was being serious? Funnily enough, that's what worcej was slammed for early on. Of course I think lynching him is a horrible idea, I was mocking the idea of a massclaim because it too gives us little information for a trade-off of unfortunate death. I'm not going to lynch him, and I don't think anyone else should either.