Lilith for Sainthood

[MajorMitchell]

To Dipcomrade Fluminator .. I would strongly recommend that you read the introduction in Robert Graves book "The Greek Myths" I don't want to spoil what you will read. But you will find an explanation of the roots of the initial Hebrew term Yahweh, which Graves links through Babylonian civilisation (the Jews were slaves for long time to Babylonian masters before later becoming slaves to Egyptian​ masters and then Moses leading them to promised land) to a more ancient mother Earth goddess that was a trinity.. virginal young maid/fertile woman~mother/old crone.
The Greek Myths are a most interesting read.
One deity I often offer up a little prayer to is Hymen, the patron deity of marriage and of course the Hindu Shiva, the Cosmic Dancer is imho a stunningly impressive God. When Shiva stops dancing and puts his foot down (Shiva statues always have one foot raised)..ALL TIME STOPS. Which terminates eternity.

[orathaic]

Is there much point in a bunch of atheists and agnostics talking on a forum about which other Biblical characters should be saints?

We do know how to waste our time here, lol.

I guess I'm less interested in buying into the existence of a supernatural that iron age peasants believed in, than I am in the missing context of myths which I was raised with.

Like Lilith is a character in modern media (the mother of demons according to some), Brigid is an official Catholic Saint. The history of how ideas change and adapt is interesting.

That said I no longer identify as an atheist. And I don't think I've ever been agnostic. I recall very clearly making my confirmation aged 12 while 100% certain god didn't exist (and as such was doing it for purely mercanary reasons).

[Randomizer]

which Graves links through Babylonian civilisation (the Jews were slaves for long time to Babylonian masters before later becoming slaves to Egyptian​ masters and then Moses leading them to promised land)

Babylonia didn't exist at the time of the first Egyptian slavery of Jews that Moses led them out of in the Book of Exodus. The Babylonian conquest and exile wasn't until centuries later.

I suggest you read one of the Four Document discussions that believe the present Old Testament was a compilation of at least four different versions that used different names for God. There have been attempts to separate out the material based on style and language.

http://www.cs.umd.edu/~mvz/bible/doc-hyp.pdf

[Fluminator]

This is a puzzling comment.

Which parts of the Bible do you think are "real"?

This is a puzzling comment. Hadn't I made this clear in a different thread about Roman records and Jesus existence? Very little of it. But of course there are characters mentioned in the Bible which likely did exist (like St. Paul and Pontius Pilate).

Is there much point in a bunch of atheists and agnostics talking on a forum about which other Biblical characters should be saints?

We do know how to waste our time here, lol.

Even if you believe the Bible is all a bunch of hogwash, you still have to appreciate how much of an effect it still has on modern culture. For such an ancient book, it's stood the test of time.

[Fluminator]

which Graves links through Babylonian civilisation (the Jews were slaves for long time to Babylonian masters before later becoming slaves to Egyptian​ masters and then Moses leading them to promised land)

Babylonia didn't exist at the time of the first Egyptian slavery of Jews that Moses led them out of in the Book of Exodus. The Babylonian conquest and exile wasn't until centuries later.

I suggest you read one of the Four Document discussions that believe the present Old Testament was a compilation of at least four different versions that used different names for God. There have been attempts to separate out the material based on style and language.

http://www.cs.umd.edu/~mvz/bible/doc-hyp.pdf

I'm fuzzy in some of the timelines, but I believe Babylon was around back then. There were two major waves of Babylonian dominance. Assyria conquered them, but Babylon made a comeback.
I'll have to read the book because I've never heard of the Jews being slaves to the Babylons before Egypt though. (I hear many times that the Jews being Egyptian slaves were myth and legend, and there's no records of a mass exodus out of Egypt.)

[Jamiet99uk]

This is a puzzling comment. Hadn't I made this clear in a different thread about Roman records and Jesus existence? Very little of it. But of course there are characters mentioned in the Bible which likely did exist (like St. Paul and Pontius Pilate).

Is there much point in a bunch of atheists and agnostics talking on a forum about which other Biblical characters should be saints?

We do know how to waste our time here, lol.

Even if you believe the Bible is all a bunch of hogwash, you still have to appreciate how much of an effect it still has on modern culture. For such an ancient book, it's stood the test of time.

Oh sure I just didn't really see the point of nit-picking about which parts of it were "true" as Flash was doing.

[flash2015]

Is there much point in a bunch of atheists and agnostics talking on a forum about which other Biblical characters should be saints?

We do know how to waste our time here, lol.

Even if you believe the Bible is all a bunch of hogwash, you still have to appreciate how much of an effect it still has on modern culture. For such an ancient book, it's stood the test of time.

Oh sure I just didn't really see the point of nit-picking about which parts of it were "true" as Flash was doing.

I am not sure what I was "nitpicking" about. I am a former Catholic. I was making a point that at least currently new saints need to be real people...and there is a process that needs to happen for someone to become a saint. This would preclude a mythical character from the old testament from now becoming a saint.

[orathaic]

Even if you believe the Bible is all a bunch of hogwash, you still have to appreciate how much of an effect it still has on modern culture. For such an ancient book, it's stood the test of time.

I mean I could say the same about Game of Thrones...

I think, for an ancient book, all the edits, retranslations, missing bits and added fanfic (like this lilith character) go to show how humans can create meaning from anything, and repeatedly change that meaning depending on their needs.

[orathaic]

I am not sure what I was "nitpicking" about. I am a former Catholic. I was making a point that at least currently new saints need to be real people...and there is a process that needs to happen for someone to become a saint. This would preclude a mythical character from the old testament from now becoming a saint.

Wait, one line in the old testament makes a character? (combined with myths about demons from other traditions perhaps, assuming the implied context of that one line)

[Fluminator]

Even if you believe the Bible is all a bunch of hogwash, you still have to appreciate how much of an effect it still has on modern culture. For such an ancient book, it's stood the test of time.

I mean I could say the same about Game of Thrones...

I think, for an ancient book, all the edits, retranslations, missing bits and added fanfic (like this lilith character) go to show how humans can create meaning from anything, and repeatedly change that meaning depending on their needs.

I haven't watched Game of Thrones yet. What effect has it had on culture that is similar to the Bible?