M1011 - Revenge of the Space Mutants - Game Thread

[BunnyGo]

In no particular order;

damo, please don't be scum again lol, but you're happy-go-lucky to sudden vexed makes me blink.

Chaqa's post with the policy on me for some reason gave me mildly strong scum vibes the first time I read it, maybe due to seemingly awkward, but once I looked at it again the vibe went away, so huh

Tombomb is underestimating the Chaqa effect, and how infectious it is when it comes to people forgetting past games

This is EMCs first non-sh*t post.

[BunnyGo]

Emc is NOT 3rd party. I can read him like a book.

Damo trying to be funny. Somewhat typical - NAI.

Slight disagree, more scum indicative than town at least from recent games

Then this.

[BunnyGo]

I'm going to say preemptively that kgray is probably town again

This shortly later.

[BunnyGo]

emc - what do you make of xorx misremembering facts of previous games?

I think it's NAI. Again, Chaq's infectious, my man.

Now see, if it was bozo that misremembered facts of a previous game it would be a completely different thing. But for xorx it's in the normal range of things.

This is one of his last posts.

[BunnyGo]

If anything, I'd put infinitesimally tiny town points for it, but that would be foolish lol

Followed immediately by this.

[BunnyGo]

GM NOTE

Substitution: Thank you VECNA for stepping in to replace EMC.

Vecna HAS REPLACED e.m.c^42
Vecna IS REPLACING e.m.c^42

Ooh boy I can get more Chipotle

This is a slip indicating that you know I replaced into a town slot!

Hey guys

First post.

[BunnyGo]

So unless scum are being tricky, my obvious conclusion is that scumteam is one of: (Tom, worcej, Vecna) or (damo, [food, bozo, worcej, Chaqa])

Based on my previous townreads of Tom and emc/Vecna, I will for now focus on the second possibility, which gives me damo and, if I'm right about bozo being town, and worcej's claim goes unchallenged, that would leave food and Chaqa.

It might also explain why foodcoats was so agitated that I was "assuming" that Chaqa was town with my Neph vote.

The funny thing is he was mostly correct. But forgot EMC.

[BunnyGo]

That seems like a silly way to justify voting one of the strongest town players on the site damo.

##vote damo

Agreed. ##Vote damo

This also reads as a very bad reason to vote Damo. !scum damo would have no real expectation of lynching Xorxes like this. Tombombs reasoning looks more like "sound-good" reasoning than proper reasoning. Chaqa not arguing it but latching on without intent to prod Damo feels cheese.

Chaqa has higher intelligence then this - scum.

If this is a non-joke read of Chaqa, can you explain how this is different from you giving your reads on Jamie and Darg?

Interesting that Kgray pokes at the read on Chaqa

And by the way, I know there are lots of jokes in this phase - but I do genuinely find damoa actions suspicious.

Why? I doubt he thinks anyone will follow him onto xorxes based on that reasoning, and he's basically forcing himself to change his vote when xorxes starts posting. This would be a really terrible way to try to get a xorxes wagon going.

See, this is what Town Chaqa should have been thinking. Major townpoints for Kgray.

Let me tell ya, I enjoy a nice big game of mafia, but I really enjoy showing up three hours late and not having 10+ pages to catch up on.

Before I read... worcej, I did not get a chance to comment in the M55 thread at the end, but I really enjoyed the game. I entered it as someone with a baseless bias against mechanics and left with a very healthy appreciation for how important mechanical analysis can be. I think I'm a better Mafia player for it.

As a token of my appreciation, have a vote:

##VOTE worcej

You mean the mechanical analysis which allowed me to lead a bunch of mislynches on town?

It seems probable that in the mini-flashwagon against damo for making a silly, convoluted joke, one of worcej or Chaqa is scum. Only so many townies are going to be so blatantly opportunistic.

Between them, Chaqa's bald agreement looks a lot scummier - worcej just seems to be riffing on the joke. Chaqa also voted Nephthys for playing up the same playstyle as last game. Seems like scum trying to make something stick.

##VOTE Chaqa

Also liking this post for thinking the same thing. The nephtys thing looked like classic SvS "joking" that certain players just love to do.

Why? I doubt he thinks anyone will follow him onto xorxes based on that reasoning, and he's basically forcing himself to change his vote when xorxes starts posting. This would be a really terrible way to try to get a xorxes wagon going.

Excellent point, kgray.

It's actually quite odd that Tom is immediately adamant in this read.

Tom, I am eager to hear your answer to kgray's question.

And this just reads like Foodcoats doing the mindmeld trick I love to use to read people. Foodcoats can also be town.

But on the topic of being quiet, please don't have any expectations of EMC having the same posting rate as last game, lmao, that was a temporary affliction

No need to go crazy, emc. But would you consider voting more frequently? It is your main weapon - if you are town.

Why don't you vote for someone when you reply to this post, and say why you are doing it.

The irony of this post and me being here

To answer kgray:

I find (this is anecdotal- tbh I don’t know if the facts back this up or not, but I think they would) that even in joke phases, wagons can get started and stick. Let’s say two people followed onto xorxes. He becomes a wagon even if damo comes off.

It strikes me as odd that he moved from the bottom of the list up, and xorxes happens to be a player sum would LOVE to have mislynch Ed if he is town.

And even if xorx doesn’t get lynched, he becomes a wagon and anyone who is a wagon D1 will get the “someone protected his wagon” come d2.

Further if you are skeptical that people would follow damo and vote xorx, look how quickly people followed me onto damo

This reasoning could go either way for allignment. If youre really town and this is your reaosning, why not wait and see if Damo indeed sticks and tries to make this happen? Could also be over explanatory scum. No read yet.

This post is soooooo good. Read it. Read it again in context (go back to the page). There’s so much interesting interaction with Chaq, with kgray. I’m loving it.

[BunnyGo]

I do see where you are coming from.

I guess my issue is that his post clearly isn't a joke, so that can't explain it. I guess you could say its a policy vote, but if you don't think people would follow damo to xorxes, you certainly wouldn't think damos "policy" vote holds any water and would actually succeed in getting people to speak.

Obviously I didn't follow the last two games, so I can't speak specifically to the bozo/xorx argument except that xorx has a good reputation as town - moreso that bozo.

I don't see what damo was trying to achieve with his comment/vote. The policy side doesn't add up either as looking at this lineup, I would expect no issue in terms of people participating, and I don't suspect damo would either.

Guess Tom's reasoning here is more understandable with him missing the last game thing and it being made an explicit point a few times that during most parts of the game the scum were in the bottom posters.

I do see where you are coming from.

I guess my issue is that his post clearly isn't a joke, so that can't explain it. I guess you could say its a policy vote, but if you don't think people would follow damo to xorxes, you certainly wouldn't think damos "policy" vote holds any water and would actually succeed in getting people to speak.

Obviously I didn't follow the last two games, so I can't speak specifically to the bozo/xorx argument except that xorx has a good reputation as town - moreso that bozo.

I don't see what damo was trying to achieve with his comment/vote. The policy side doesn't add up either as looking at this lineup, I would expect no issue in terms of people participating, and I don't suspect damo would either.

In the last mini game (M1010), bozo had the game solved and was NKed just before lylo, while xorxes was incorrectly townreading damo. Last game (M55) I don't remember who was "more correct" in their reads, but xorxes was again incorrectly townreading damo. I just don't think that scum!damo going specifically for xorxes makes a whole lot of sense based on recent games.

But, I will agree that damo's vote didn't really seem like a legit policy vote. I don't think it holds water at all, and people are only talking about it because you voted for him based off it. And it didn't seem like a joke to me either, but it seems so random to me that I just can't take it seriously. I don't get how scum!damo could think it would work, or why he'd bother with such a strange placeholder vote when he could have easily made a joke vote or none at all.

Kgray also locktown

OK, just caught up. In Tom vs kgray, kgray is the clear winner. She seems to be in her town range. I think she was scum only once and if I remember correctly she would avoid having an opinion on things.

Just one thing: I was not townreading damo last game, I was mostly ignoring him, which I tend to do in the early game because I give him the benefit of the doubt. I had him as my third choice for scum when I was killed, and that was completely Vecna's fault.

I don't think I have enough to make a read on him for now, but he did vote for me last game as scum, so I'm wary now.

I think that the argument that one of the damo voters may be scum is interesting. But I'm going to ##vote Neph because that was Chaqa's first vote, and Chaqa's first vote last game proved to be accurate. Also because of the end vote, and because there's not much more to go on at this point.

Not a very strong opinion, but that is a lot of words to say townread kgray, vote neph.

OK, just caught up. In Tom vs kgray, kgray is the clear winner. She seems to be in her town range. I think she was scum only once and if I remember correctly she would avoid having an opinion on things.

Just one thing: I was not townreading damo last game, I was mostly ignoring him, which I tend to do in the early game because I give him the benefit of the doubt. I had him as my third choice for scum when I was killed, and that was completely Vecna's fault.

I don't think I have enough to make a read on him for now, but he did vote for me last game as scum, so I'm wary now.

An unusual statement from xorxes. Not used to seeing him make a prior game statement about a player in relation to this game. NAI

Xorxes does that all the time?

It seems probable that in the mini-flashwagon against damo for making a silly, convoluted joke, one of worcej or Chaqa is scum. Only so many townies are going to be so blatantly opportunistic.

Between them, Chaqa's bald agreement looks a lot scummier - worcej just seems to be riffing on the joke. Chaqa also voted Nephthys for playing up the same playstyle as last game. Seems like scum trying to make something stick.

##VOTE Chaqa

Do we not do Day 1 joke votes anymore :/

To be fair, I caught Dargo's ass day 1 last game like this... so I'm gonna say I'm at least 1/2 on Neph and Damo

This is a towny post from Chaqa

I think that the argument that one of the damo voters may be scum is interesting. But I'm going to ##vote Neph because that was Chaqa's first vote, and Chaqa's first vote last game proved to be accurate. Also because of the end vote, and because there's not much more to go on at this point.

scum!xorx trying to buddy me? Hmm.

This is also an interesting statement, because Chaqa's play was ultra scummy up until this point and both Xorxes and Tom were completely alright with it.

scum!xorx trying to buddy me? Hmm.

Hmm indeed. Just because I use you as a litmus test doesn't mean I think you know what you're doing.

And then this after. Odd

I trust google more than you, scumxes.

Hmmm, this back and forth got weird from both sides again.

I like this GM. He gave me a present.

Softing gun?

Why would you assume it will be talked about if it’s important? Shouldn’t you decide for yourself what is important?

Stupid fucking comment. I clearly am saying I can't be bothered reading and am leaving it up to others to decide on the importance.

ffs

This reads a little as town Damo. Not so much aggitation and desire to feel righteous in his usual scumgame.

Someone is angry because they’ve been pegged

Yeah. I think food may have gotcha.

Or not. Unsure.

Vote remains on Bozo.

But then again, this uncertainty and instantly folding under any presumed pressure is something that scum Damo also does often.

I think xorxes may be scum here. foodcoats has some good points and xorxes not bothering to get the facts correct about kgray's past games is somewhat suspicious.

##VOTE xorxes

Yikes. So all of those quotes lead nowhere? There better be some followup.

I just really don't think anyone would follow damo onto xorxes here...



If I were scum I'd be just as happy getting bozo lynched as xorxes, assuming they're both town. And actually, based on the last two times damo was scum, I'd assume scum!damo would rather keep xorxes alive since xorxes seems to always townread damo.



This is a good point. But, again, it requires xorxes to become an actual wagon first, and I can't see damo actually thinking it would happen.



Well, for one thing, your vote on damo was for a legitimate reason, whereas damo's was a policy/joke vote. And also, no offense meant to damo, but I think you've got a bit more of an influence than he does. I've never even played with you but I'm familiar with your reputation as a good player.

How are you familiar with Tom's reputation as a good player?

Critical question from Bozo. -usually- a good signal.

Stupid fucking comment. I clearly am saying I can't be bothered reading and am leaving it up to others to decide on the importance.

ffs

You can't be bothered to read the thread... because you already know everyone's alignment, so you don't need to? And how could any townie possibly trust others to tell them what's important?

This is so freaking scummy. If Fox were here he'd say there's no way scum would say something like this... But he's not, so ##vote damo.

This I strongly disagree with (not that it looks bad on gray). I also instantly stopped reading what bozo was doing. Plenty of other town did I bet. Its not our job to make the point he's trying to make, so let bozo fucking make it instead of spamming nonsense.

More brilliance.

[BunnyGo]

I really want to scumread bozo for voting me, but I think it probably means he is town. He doesn't like to antagonize me when he is scum. Can't say the same for foodcoats, I don't really remember how he treats me when he is scum.

emc looking towny, I like what he is saying.

Tom defending me is always nice, so townie points for him as well.

So you think tom's scumgame is so advanced he wouldnt mind agitating you? so him townreading you instead is town? I dont really get the logic.

I don't like that post by summit.

Seems like bozo may have gotten them with a made up town read, so summit came up with some vague justification and more importantly tried to change the subject to kgray and Chaqa where townread justifications are easier to come up with.

Wouldn't call it "made up" but it certainly is just a gut read based on his body of work.

You find something odd about continuing to engage bozo?

First impression of summit is pretty good. Volume will hopefully keep up to mature into a proper read.

I think xorxes may be scum here. foodcoats has some good points and xorxes not bothering to get the facts correct about kgray's past games is somewhat suspicious.

##VOTE xorxes

And I think Bozo is scum. Not only this vote on Xorxes that to me look more like to be seem as "town who doesn't fear to push Xorxes" but also the quotes and the overall behavior.

##vote Bozo

This might very well be the reason why Rdrivera ended up dead. Was suspicious of Xorx and Bozo for independant reasons I think?

There is another scenario, where Xorxes was right that scum bozo wouldnt push town Xorx, but would be fine bussing his teammate under pressure. Would also explain the easily given townread.

I've changed in my time away emc. All the silly short stories and fun has been replaced by a more mature man.

You could even say I've evolved into ThomasBombadil

Not sure if I like this Thomas guy. And not sure he is town.

hmmm-hmm

You said you think kgray is in her town range because "she would avoid having an opinion on things" when she was scum. Whether this was a mistake or a fabrication, it looks like an example of scum level effort from you.

Yes, I thought I remembered a game where she was scum, but it turns out it was a game where I just thought she was scum (for quite a while, if I remember right). If you like to think that was a fabrication, or low level effort, suit yourself, I don't think I will keep repeating myself on this. I have many unpleasant memories of this type of dialogue with you and I know it doesn't lead anywhere.

probably not SvS

I find bozos observation about rivera interesting. If anything, I townread bozo for the hunting.

Hmmmm

I think food's analysis of Xorxes is genuine and I therefore townread food.

I think Tom's critique of food's analysis sounds as if it is townbased so I am also townreading Tom.

As for Xorxes's actual alignment I'm gonna sit on the fence for the time being.

I still think Bozo is the best lynch today.

All others have gone a bit quiet.

Hello?

More town posting from Damo

Do you agree with my analysis of xorxes? Do you think xorxes is more likely to be town despite his strange behaviour?

Can you explain your case against bozo? You previously indicated suspicion at his use of quotes without context, but bozo 1) does something strange at the beginning of nearly every game and 2) has now moved onto a pretty standard questioning tack. bozo does not seem out of sorts to me, but perhaps I've missed something.

I agree with your analysis of Xorxes but not necessarily your conclusion. Xorxes' lacks bozo's industry in researching previous games and his memory may just have been faulty. You have a case of sorts but I don't think it's particularly strong.

My bozo vote was based on his early posts with the quotes and no commentary but as you rightly say and as summit has also pointed out he has moved up a gear. I just have a feeling bozo may have latched on to your analysis to try and drive a Xorxes lynch. I am pretty confident they are not both scum and they could both be town.

My vote is staying on bozo chiefly because I'm not sure who else to vote for.

Willing to put Damo as a pretty decent townread after this. He dont produce this stuff as scum.

Everything about this post just makes me double-down on the xorx-damo scum axis.

Really? Everything? Reread.

Also this was a good reminder to strike against Chaqa. that post was bad.

I will not vote for bozo, xorxes, kgray, or food today
I

Like, I like the conclusions Tom reaches to a certain extent, but his motivations and deductions just remain mysterious and making me feel like I want to poke and prod.

Could be a way to protect Xorxes in a group of other townies. Not sure he would stick his hand in the fire to protect a scum teammate xorxes to this extent and go down with this ship though. White knighting? Possibly. Town also still possible.

I will not vote for bozo, xorxes, kgray, or food today
I

So, you think Food and Bozo are town, but disagree with their (town!) reads/belief that xorx is scum? If that's the case, on what basis do you town read them? Kgray also I think is suspicious of xorx.

if xorx flips town, this post will strike me as very suspicious. I'll keep it in mind and I'm not quite understanding your reasoning.

And this post once again looks majorly good on Chaqa. (unless he's playing the longgame to setup Tom after mislynching Xorxes, but would he actually plan for that? Dubious)

So, you think Food and Bozo are town, but disagree with their (town!) reads/belief that xorx is scum? If that's the case, on what basis do you town read them? Kgray also I think is suspicious of xorx.

if xorx flips town, this post will strike me as very suspicious. I'll keep it in mind and I'm not quite understanding your reasoning.

I'll be honest, I don't know food that well, but I think his case on xorxes is well reasoned - I just disagree with a lot of it. Particularily around the idea that he was revealing that he knew Chaqa's alignment, and I think food is putting too much weight into xorxes first vote.

For bozo, I'm surprised a bit that he is scumreading xorx. But my townread of him is independent of that. My townread of bozo is due to his questioning of kgray and his observation of rdrivera (which he admittedly hasn't pushed since he got wrapped up in this xorxes case).

I'll also freely admit that I don't have a strong townread of xorx. Its a slight townread. I am, and I say this every game, willing to wait a little on xorx because I find he is very useful as town, and tends to be a little easier to catch as scum. Put simply a mislynch of xorx stings more than a mislynch of someone else, so I'll err towards someone else D1 when there is so little to go on.

This post I like. Pretty well thought out. Would be a really great post if done by scum to protect Xorxes because it really feels town indicative in how he words and reasons it out.

There’s no interaction with kgray here. But he strongly Town reads Damo and leans it on Chaq. All interesting tone. Read for tone people.

[BunnyGo]

Were not doing that over this, and i think you know why

Because you're scum?

Are you calling me scum?

You wanna go there?

Say that again. to my face

Cmon then

What’s this?

[BunnyGo]

All solid townreads with good reasons:
Bozotheclown
Damo666
Foodcoats
Kgray
Worcej

Pool containing all 3 scum
Nephthys
Xorxes/Chaqa (not SvS for various reasons)
Summit_fever
Tom Bombadil

Lynching Xorxes today is like a 50/50 but will yield more info
lynching others in this pool is a 66% since I dont really buy that Chaqa and Xorxes are both town in how this has gone down.

Interesting

[BunnyGo]

although summit in all likelyhood is partnered with either chaqa/xorxes, so TomB or Neph is also a coinflip

I didn’t see much focus on Neph before this. More interesting.

[BunnyGo]

although summit in all likelyhood is partnered with either chaqa/xorxes, so TomB or Neph is also a coinflip

Was that because he was absent?

[BunnyGo]

And im not sure if im correct on this, but in my mind chaqa as scum loves to try and attempt ties. I could swear he was responsible for a day1 tie as scum in the past.

Its pretty tricky to state if that couldve been their goal D1, but even if a tie wasnt the goal, having a counter wagon in town that is run up to create potential new mislynches going forward is very useful to scum. Most of the other people running up damo quickly there are now conf town (pending no cc, but that seems unlikely)

Ok...

[BunnyGo]

If one of Xorxes or Damo was scum, why would neph not want to actually participate to influence his teammate not getting killed off?

So both are scum? Neph/xorx/Damo?

Seems pretty tinfoil to me.

I’m quoting Chaqs response instead of vecna because that’s not context. Not *being* neph I can’t be sure. But imagine town!neph doesn’t know who is scum. That’s the most obvious answer. Scum!neph might not let it get as close as it did.

[BunnyGo]

Im really surprised you guys dont see the huge difference in play from damo between this game and the last.

Kgray also noted this is exactly how he played as town in the game before.

Why is damo scum here?

Interesting. By the time I showed up it was very clear that Damo was the same as last game.

But this post has vecna, kgray, and Damo in it

[BunnyGo]

For those who have ignored me:

Why are we not solving the Vecna and Summit situation out when one of them is probably scum?

There is no vecna and summit situation. There might be a summit situation.

You should be easily able to read my play here and make the right decision. You seemed to be able to do that just fine even before I started playing, so it should only be easier by now.

Hmm.

[BunnyGo]

Had a BBQ and boozefest last night, will catch up on the last 24h soon.

Remaining scum is Chaqa, Tom, Nephtys

Hungover Vecna is only 1/3 right.

[BunnyGo]

I guess its possible ive been misreading Bozo or Kgray, but it seems far more unlikely than the above being the solve

And hedges.