M1011 - Revenge of the Space Mutants - Game Thread

[bozotheclown]

It gets messy when you factor in you had 2 'vig's' target different people and one of us was already fake.

As scummy as this sounds: there is one person who can blow this all open but they are staying silent.

That is why I think we should wait until D2 on this when we should have that information.

It is D2...

Sorry, D3.

[Chaqa]

Remember everyone, because of the double-vote we only have one mislynch left.

Today it's 8 vs 3(+1).

If we mislynch and nighkill is successful, tomorrow is 6 vs 3(+1). That's mylo.

@xorx - I hadn't questioned it until I was re-reading you a bit, but how is this MYLO tomorrow (assuming a mislynch happens today)?

6 v 3(+1) would mean with a mislynch it's down to 4v3 the following day. The 6v3 day is not MYLO in any means. Or am I misunderstanding?

[foodcoats]

We lynch summit even though the rest of the egotistical town seems to think that's not something we should do...

I will lynch summit with you if we can get the votes, even though it is a dominated strategy.

[foodcoats]

Let's try it.

##VOTE summit

[damo666]

If you'll notice, my vote is not on you currently. I just find it awful that we most likely have a scum between two people and once again it is being ignored by the town.

Just on random chance, there is a 1/11 chance the real Vig targeted the Tough Guy, and a 2/11 chance the Judicator commuted either the real Vig or the real Vig's target.

It gets messy when you factor in you had 2 'vig's' target different people and one of us was already fake.

As scummy as this sounds: there is one person who can blow this all open but they are staying silent.

If the Judicator commuted someone not in the relevant 4 they could reveal that and then we know scum is in 1 of two. A fair trade.

If they did commute 1 of the 4 the lack of kill is explained but a reveal would be sacrificial for not that much benefit (targets could still be scum).

In the first instance the Judicator will presumably reveal just prior t EOD giving scum no chance to react. In the second they will presumably stay silent.

Now, you shouldn't be pursuing this any more.

[bozotheclown]

Chaqa could have voted for damo to break a tie but he didn't. And he explicitly mentioned the possibility of a tie in his last post, so he was well aware of the situation.

Yes, so in what world would I purposefully be the one to "cause" the tie after POINTING OUT IT WAS A THREAT?

You didn't cause it, but you could have prevented it.

Why am I the one at fault?

You're not the only one. Bozo and food were in your position as well, but apparently they wanted me lynched so badly that they were willing to risk the tie. You said you were happy to see damo lynched but you chose to risk a tie instead.

If damo is town, everyone on his wagon were in that position as well. The vote was only tied for 2 minutes or less, from 6 minutes before EOD to 5 minutes before EOD, and for less than a minute at EOD. For most of the last 5 minutes, there was no guarantee damo was going to show up to vote, or that emc was not going to vote. Most of the town would have preferred to avoid a tie, yet we all failed to do so. The scum probably would have preferred a lynch if either of you were town, but failed to get a town lynch.

[worcej]

@bozo - the problem with waiting until D3 to get the information is that a CC can come when we are at mylo due to the JOAT. Because it's MYLO and most likely the commuter is out of powers on D3, we will never be able to be wrong about which claim is real.

Honestly, we're kinda fucked anyways atm - since people bitched about my setup during the game I'll return the favor: the scum JOAT's double vote in this format is OP and with the fact we learned nothing from D1 (again, A TERRIBLE OUTCOME) we crippled ourselves terribly. If the game was 7-3 right now we'd be in the same situation (mylo on D3) and at least have more flips resolved.

This is why damo, to me, has to be scum. No smart town person would think tying the vote helps us out long-term. Claiming would've been smarter.

[worcej]

Remember everyone, because of the double-vote we only have one mislynch left.

Today it's 8 vs 3(+1).

If we mislynch and nighkill is successful, tomorrow is 6 vs 3(+1). That's mylo.

@xorx - I hadn't questioned it until I was re-reading you a bit, but how is this MYLO tomorrow (assuming a mislynch happens today)?

6 v 3(+1) would mean with a mislynch it's down to 4v3 the following day. The 6v3 day is not MYLO in any means. Or am I misunderstanding?

It's MYLO tomorrow because the scum would use the +1 ability on N3 for D4 and it would be 4-4 voting power, thus a tie, and becomes 3-3 on D5, still tie and lose.

[bozotheclown]

Remember everyone, because of the double-vote we only have one mislynch left.

Today it's 8 vs 3(+1).

If we mislynch and nighkill is successful, tomorrow is 6 vs 3(+1). That's mylo.

@xorx - I hadn't questioned it until I was re-reading you a bit, but how is this MYLO tomorrow (assuming a mislynch happens today)?

6 v 3(+1) would mean with a mislynch it's down to 4v3 the following day. The 6v3 day is not MYLO in any means. Or am I misunderstanding?

At 4-3 the JOAT can use the double vote to make the vote 4-4, so that it will be 3-3 the following day.

[worcej]

Just on random chance, there is a 1/11 chance the real Vig targeted the Tough Guy, and a 2/11 chance the Judicator commuted either the real Vig or the real Vig's target.

It gets messy when you factor in you had 2 'vig's' target different people and one of us was already fake.

As scummy as this sounds: there is one person who can blow this all open but they are staying silent.

If the Judicator commuted someone not in the relevant 4 they could reveal that and then we know scum is in 1 of two. A fair trade.

If they did commute 1 of the 4 the lack of kill is explained but a reveal would be sacrificial for not that much benefit (targets could still be scum).

In the first instance the Judicator will presumably reveal just prior t EOD giving scum no chance to react. In the second they will presumably stay silent.

Now, you shouldn't be pursuing this any more.

By waiting until the last second @ EOD, the scum can just as easily do it and then we still have two claims going into D3.

I also don't care what your opinion is. You're scum, our last PR, or one of the worst players at a team game that I've seen in a long time.

[bozotheclown]

@bozo - the problem with waiting until D3 to get the information is that a CC can come when we are at mylo due to the JOAT. Because it's MYLO and most likely the commuter is out of powers on D3, we will never be able to be wrong about which claim is real.

Honestly, we're kinda fucked anyways atm - since people bitched about my setup during the game I'll return the favor: the scum JOAT's double vote in this format is OP and with the fact we learned nothing from D1 (again, A TERRIBLE OUTCOME) we crippled ourselves terribly. If the game was 7-3 right now we'd be in the same situation (mylo on D3) and at least have more flips resolved.

This is why damo, to me, has to be scum. No smart town person would think tying the vote helps us out long-term. Claiming would've been smarter.

I still think we are better off trying to resolve a Judicator counterclaim, if that happened and we resolved it correctly, that would give us 2 scum. Why are you sure foodcoats is the real Vig if none of you were commuted?

[worcej]

@bozo - the problem with waiting until D3 to get the information is that a CC can come when we are at mylo due to the JOAT. Because it's MYLO and most likely the commuter is out of powers on D3, we will never be able to be wrong about which claim is real.

Honestly, we're kinda fucked anyways atm - since people bitched about my setup during the game I'll return the favor: the scum JOAT's double vote in this format is OP and with the fact we learned nothing from D1 (again, A TERRIBLE OUTCOME) we crippled ourselves terribly. If the game was 7-3 right now we'd be in the same situation (mylo on D3) and at least have more flips resolved.

This is why damo, to me, has to be scum. No smart town person would think tying the vote helps us out long-term. Claiming would've been smarter.

I still think we are better off trying to resolve a Judicator counterclaim, if that happened and we resolved it correctly, that would give us 2 scum. Why are you sure foodcoats is the real Vig if none of you were commuted?

I am not sure if he is the real Vig or not. I could've been and Vecna could be the tough guy or EMC was intentionally commuted.

The problem is the Judicator has all of this information and based off what I am seeing from a majority of players, I have arrived to the conclusion that they commuted one of the 4 in this pool and we cannot be sure of what we got - another notch in the 'not good balance' cap for this setup.

[bozotheclown]

It gets messy when you factor in you had 2 'vig's' target different people and one of us was already fake.

As scummy as this sounds: there is one person who can blow this all open but they are staying silent.

If the Judicator commuted someone not in the relevant 4 they could reveal that and then we know scum is in 1 of two. A fair trade.

If they did commute 1 of the 4 the lack of kill is explained but a reveal would be sacrificial for not that much benefit (targets could still be scum).

In the first instance the Judicator will presumably reveal just prior t EOD giving scum no chance to react. In the second they will presumably stay silent.

Now, you shouldn't be pursuing this any more.

By waiting until the last second @ EOD, the scum can just as easily do it and then we still have two claims going into D3.

I also don't care what your opinion is. You're scum, our last PR, or one of the worst players at a team game that I've seen in a long time.

xorxes voted to save himself as well, the question to me is whether damo deliberately waited until the last minute to vote, or if he really came online just in time to place that vote.

[summit_fever]

"SUMMIT IS GETTING SNARKY! WHAT DO WE DO, HIGH INQUISITOR?"
"ENGAGE EMPLOYMENT OF THE BOZOTHIAN METHOD!"

Addendum: if you - kgray, summit, and bozo - are town, you should only be voting Nephthys if you believe both damo and xorxes are town.

Discuss.

Sure. I can say with certainty that neither one is on my top two lynches for day 2 (or day 1 for that matter). I also believe I could be wrong. Do you?

If you're trying out a new playstyle have you also been looking for how your new style may affect the play of others? Given the fact that you have had a huge influence on how the wagons have formed in this game, I think it's an important consideration and if you re-read the game with that in mind you may find something interesting that others would miss. I guess I'm worried that you are only inquisitive when you've already made up your mind.

Thank you, summit.

What are your reads on the other players? Is there anyone who strikes you as particular scummy or townie so far? Who will you vote for?

town reads:

kgray/chaqa/food/bozo/Tom

neutral:

rdrivera/xorxes/emc/nephthys

scummy:

worcej/damo

Welp pack it in boys we're busted.

It would be nice if you addressed the rest of my post.

[Chaqa]

Remember everyone, because of the double-vote we only have one mislynch left.

Today it's 8 vs 3(+1).

If we mislynch and nighkill is successful, tomorrow is 6 vs 3(+1). That's mylo.

@xorx - I hadn't questioned it until I was re-reading you a bit, but how is this MYLO tomorrow (assuming a mislynch happens today)?

6 v 3(+1) would mean with a mislynch it's down to 4v3 the following day. The 6v3 day is not MYLO in any means. Or am I misunderstanding?

It's MYLO tomorrow because the scum would use the +1 ability on N3 for D4 and it would be 4-4 voting power, thus a tie, and becomes 3-3 on D5, still tie and lose.

Oh, that makes way more sense. I understand now. I was thinking the +1 notation meant they were using it that day

[bozotheclown]

@bozo - the problem with waiting until D3 to get the information is that a CC can come when we are at mylo due to the JOAT. Because it's MYLO and most likely the commuter is out of powers on D3, we will never be able to be wrong about which claim is real.

Honestly, we're kinda fucked anyways atm - since people bitched about my setup during the game I'll return the favor: the scum JOAT's double vote in this format is OP and with the fact we learned nothing from D1 (again, A TERRIBLE OUTCOME) we crippled ourselves terribly. If the game was 7-3 right now we'd be in the same situation (mylo on D3) and at least have more flips resolved.

This is why damo, to me, has to be scum. No smart town person would think tying the vote helps us out long-term. Claiming would've been smarter.

I still think we are better off trying to resolve a Judicator counterclaim, if that happened and we resolved it correctly, that would give us 2 scum. Why are you sure foodcoats is the real Vig if none of you were commuted?

I am not sure if he is the real Vig or not. I could've been and Vecna could be the tough guy or EMC was intentionally commuted.

The problem is the Judicator has all of this information and based off what I am seeing from a majority of players, I have arrived to the conclusion that they commuted one of the 4 in this pool and we cannot be sure of what we got - another notch in the 'not good balance' cap for this setup.

That is another reason why we should just wait until we have that information to resolve summit/Vecna. If no Vigs or Vig targets were commuted, it is 50/50 between summit/Vecna for me.

[Chaqa]

Don't forget that Vecna is still voting for xorx despite the bot.

It's not impossible mafia would use the +1 here if the JOAT is someone who could be under pressure like xorx, damo, or Neph.

[bozotheclown]

If xorxes is town and damo is scum, summit's D1 vote looks good, if xorxes and damo are both town, it is NAI, and if xorxes is scum and damo is town, I do not think summit would risk making that vote as scum.

[foodcoats]

Welp pack it in boys we're busted.

It would be nice if you addressed the rest of my post.

I don't think I'm wrong. But, I admit I could be. I am, though, willing to stake my reputation on it. (I have no reputation, though, so this is more like... trying to usurp the bench.)

XORSUMTOM
XORSUMTOM
DEEP BENEATH THE EARTH
HEAR THE HOWL
THE BLACKEST MASS
THE BLACKEST
MASS
*blast beats*
*frenetic guitar solo*
XORSUMTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM

The whole reason I am pushing to lynch damo or xorxes and get it over and done with is because it is such an information-rich lynch, on top of being correct both factually (I believe I am right that strongly) and strategically. I am not going to give up on my xorxes scumread just because xorxes has had time to get his scumlegs. I have had a lot of success as scum at convincing people that lynching me is wrong. xorxes is a convincing guy, why should he bad at scum? And I need the flip because as I've said it was NEVER TvT there.

[foodcoats]

But yeah people want to lynch Neph because they are angry at him. Fucking Neph lol