M1011 - Revenge of the Space Mutants - Game Thread

[Tom Bombadil]

oh. Unless you meant my second vote where I just voted.

Same reasoning as the first. But really, I want a counterwagon to xorx as I don't want him lynched. And you are a little scummy and had votes at the time.

[rdrivera2005]

What about me is scummy?

The way you distorted Bozo reasoning on me to start with. You are a really good player so I don't expect you to misrepresent things like that. It's either lazy or scummy and you are one of the top posters.

I also remember you being far more pushy on your reads. You voted Damo but didn't really engage him or tried to push reactions from him.

Not much I know, but it's D1 and Bozo improved.

[foodcoats]

foodcoats' D1 reads

TOWNREAD
bozotheclown - bozo began the game exactly as expected by doing some weird thing that people scumread him for. He then, as expected, pivoted into aggressive questioning. bozo is playing exactly a town!bozo game. It's possible that I am giving too strong a read here because I haven't deeply scrutinized bozo's iso, and I don't believe I've ever played against scum!bozo and don't know what to be on guard for; but I feel confident not applying that level of scrutiny for the moment because of how "reg" bozo looks here. I also decided I should be able to peg at least one person who I can feel confidently is town, because I think figuring out who you can trust is important for the town, and, using that heuristic, bozo rises to the top here.

TOWNLEAN
Chaqa - Chaqa has looked a little scummy at a few times, especially early, but that is to be expected with Chaqa. Chaqa's aggressive refutation of xorxes' readslist is something I think scum!Chaqa would have difficulty faking. Chaqa has also pushed back on some of Tom's illogic and made a reads list, all of which I find to be townie.

kgray - kgray has made several aggressive lines of questioning and refuses to accept any bad logic pushed by others. I feel this is a strongly pro-town approach and kgray is very likely town. At the opening I had kgray as "obvtown" and in my "townreads" above, but in reviewing her iso, I find she has been combative, which is great, but hasn't specifically listed her reads, which could mean she's just really good scum, so I downgraded her.

Tom Bombadil - I am really wavering on this as Tom has made a few statements that I think are "complexifying." This is a new "grand theory of mafia" I have, that scum are usually acting in very simple, predictable ways, but try their best to blend in and manipulate town to think that the situation is more complex than it is. So I was a bit frustrated to see Tom doing that. But a lot of the work Tom has put in looks really townie, even if I disagree with some of his conclusions, and I have to end up with Tom being probably-town-who-I-disagree-with.

worcej - I thought worcej's entrance looked scummy, but recalled times I have pushed to lynch worcej only to be saddened to discover that that's just kind of his style. It pinged me as townie when Tom asked how serious his from-the-hip reads were and worcej confirmed they were real reads, not jokes. I also think worcej has pushed summit appropriately.

NULL
damo666 - damo is playing a much more active D1 than usual. I can see scummy associations but also townie behaviour here. Will continue to monitor the spot.

e.m.c^42 - I don't believe emc has said anything of substance. I think emc can blend with this style as either scum or town and I can't say either way yet.

Nephthys - It's unfortunate that Neph is leveraging his performance last game to be so trolly, and I think it's a little annoyingly meta rather than actually focusing on the game, but I think it's probably, from a meta perspective, the right play for either alignment. We will need to force Neph at some point by putting him on the block, as I suspect he will stay a scuzzbag as long as possible.

rdrivera2005 - Seems townie in general but there's a couple little things that look possibly scummy as well. I haven't looked too closely at rdr and intend to focus on this slot D2.

SCUMLEAN
Summit_fever - I don't have the time to properly draw this out and was hoping to interrogate summit further before indicating I scumread him, but for the sake of town, here are my thoughts. summit's first posts were just parroting, and then when I questioned him about specifics he didn't take things much further. If xorxes flips scum, summit is likely scum also, because xorxes took pains to suggest that summit played well last game in a way that I found really awkward and largely irrelevant TMI. I find his focus on worcej to look a little like the way I sometimes "glom on" to someone as scum and argue them into the ground based on some pedantry. In this case I think it is that summit made a really awkward comparison between xorxes' vote on Neph and worcej agreeing with my analysis of xorxes, and worcej correctly called that out, since they are radically different situations. I intend to look into summit more D2 as well.

Here is the awkward "referral letter" xorxes wrote for summit:

And does anybody know summit fever? Have they played before?

I think last game was his first. He was cop and I was a semi-cop, and we scanned the same person two nights (scum DemonRHK, but I was jailed that night. We both scanned scum Bunny the same night and we were both deflected to scum Squigs. Then the night I scanned 3p rivera he scanned scum damo, who was lawyered. First night I don't know who he scanned because there was a lighning rod. I scanned town Neph that night. Then the night I was killed he scanned scum Bunny again.

In conclusion, he is new, but he played a very good game and got almost all his cop scans on scum (as did I, but that would not be news to you).

SCUMREAD
Xorxes - as I have argued.

[rdrivera2005]

oh. Unless you meant my second vote where I just voted.

Same reasoning as the first. But really, I want a counterwagon to xorx as I don't want him lynched. And you are a little scummy and had votes at the time.

That's a post I like.

[foodcoats]

If you are town, you should try to post a reads list before EOD, because it is also EON, and it will be good to get that data in for town tomorrow.

If you are emc, you should try to vote.

[Jamiet99uk]

VOTE COUNT 1.9

xorxes(4) - foodcoats, bozotheclown, worcej, Chaqa
damo666(2) - kgray, Tom Bombadil
worcej(2) - Nephthys*, Summit_fever
Tom Bombadil(1) - rdrivera2005
foodcoats(1) - xorxes
Nephthys(1) - damo666

XORXES is set to be lynched.

54 minutes remain in Day One.

EMC still needs to vote. He will be replaced if he fails to do so.

[kgray]

kgray - possibly town (she's playing nothing like she played as scum)

I don't know if this is at all indicative of xorxes' alignment, but I want to give him townie points for it anyway.

[Chaqa]

IN WHAT WORLD IS THAT A JOKE

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills

[summit_fever]

First of all, they were not troll reads. They were legit first impressions based on first posts.

Second, my logic is not the same as xorxes at all and characterizing my vote like that is a smear campaign. There are numerous people interacting with the case on xorxes. Given, he is typically a strong town player, but seeing his flip on D1 with this many people interacting with him gives substantial information.

You know what wouldn't teach us anything? Flipping someone like Neph or yourself, who are lurking incredibly hard.

Worcej:
Food, I'll reward your excellent reads from last game with this.

##vote xorxes

I stand by my opinion your case is too strong this early. However, the people who have showed up to defend xorxes specifically make it interesting to examine after we see his flip.

I'm willing to accept there are differences between your read and Xorxes', but ultimately your read is: "foodcoats made good reads last game therefore I'll vote xorxes, but I'm not really convinced".

If xorxes flips town where would you expect to find scum on the wagon? If xorxes flips scum where would scum be on the wagon?

See the underlined last sentence to show you're not reading my post correctly. I literally said that the people defending him are worthy of looking at.

If Xorxes flips town - why did the people who defended him think he was town? Was it a good reason based on substance or a weak one like 'he is good town normally'? Likewise, the people who thought he was scum - why did they and what was the justification?

Similar questions are created if he flips scum, however then you can look further at who isn't interacting with him too.

I shouldn't need to explain this to you summit.

I don't think I was very clear. Posthoc analysis is obvious. I was asking you about how a xorxes wagon would form implying a comparison to how wagons would form on other less conspicuous players. Would scum bus xorxes. How would scum try to get a town!xorxes wagon going.

[damo666]

IN WHAT WORLD IS THAT A JOKE

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills

Probably comes under irony.

[kgray]

Towny
foodcoats - I like the way he's pushing his xorxes read and I think he's coming from a solving, townie mindset.
bozo - I agree with Tom that him asking me where I heard that Tom was a good player was townie, and he didn't try to make a big deal of it when I answered him. It's a reasonable question for town to have, and scum!bozo could have easily disbelieved my explanation. And, I see exactly where he's coming from regarding xorxes. Overall it seems like bozo's hunting.
Tom - Mostly I think he makes good points. When we disagreed about damo's initial vote I thought his responses to my questions were reasonable and didn't seem like he was trying too hard to push a narrative. And, I don't agree with how he shrugged off the xorxes misremembering thing, but I don't think he'd defend xorxes so hard if he were scum. He'd either push town!xorxes for a mislynch or bus his teammate (or at least, not stick his neck out so much for him).
rivera - Also seems to be hunting, and specifically the way his read of bozo evolved seemed townie. And, similar thing as Tom with rdr defending xorxes.

Null
Chaqa - I think his frustration with xorxes joking around seems genuine, and he probably wouldn't make such a big deal out of it if he were scum.
emc - hasn't said much...
Summit - I think the fact that summit mentioned being worried about being buddied is towny from a newer player, but other than that I'm not seeing a lot of things that scream town from him. Last game I felt much more strongly that he had a town pov, so this is concerning.

Scummy
damo - Doesn't appear to be hunting or even reading the thread.
worcej - I don't like the way he voted for xorxes. Seemed opportunistic, and his only reasons were that food had good reads last game (true) and that a xorxes flip gives a lot of info (not particularly true, imo).
Neph - lurking beyond reason, and has said basically nothing useful. He's not even trolling as much as he did as town last game, so it just seems like he's hiding.
xorxes - My weakest scumread and honestly barely more than null, but I can't shake the fact that he used a nonexistant game/meta as a reason to base a read. I really think that town!xorxes would have better reasons to make reads, even if it's only an assumption of how I'd play as scum.

[Jamiet99uk]

GM NOTE

Vote count is unchanged.
XORXES is set to be lynched.
10 minutes remain.

e.m.c^42 must vote or he will be replaced out.

[Nephthys]

Oh snap

Guess who forgot about this game

[Nephthys]

I’ll catch up in a few hours

[rdrivera2005]

I’ll catch up in a few hours

Can we just lynch Nepthys?

[rdrivera2005]

##vote Damo

EOD is too quiet.

[Chaqa]

Working on a work issue so have to be brief, but reads wise see my post awhile back for where I was at. Now i'm feeling like:

Town-Food, Bozo, Kgray
null-EMC, Neph, summit, rivera
Scumny-xorxes, worcej, damo, Tom

[summit_fever]

##vote damo

[xorxes]

##vote damo

not too sure but

[kgray]

Is Neph going to be the deciding vote...?