M1011 - Revenge of the Space Mutants - Game Thread

[xorxes]

I think xorxes may be scum here. foodcoats has some good points and xorxes not bothering to get the facts correct about kgray's past games is somewhat suspicious.

##VOTE xorxes

Why is that suspicious? What scum motivation would xorxes have to get those facts wrong? I'd argue that scum would be more careful to be correct to avoid nonsensical heat like this

xorxes says he puts more effort in as town.

And I most definitely do. But you and I have very different ideas on what is worth checking and what is not. Rereading old games is something I almost never do, for example, unless I have a strong reason to.

[bozotheclown]

I think xorxes may be scum here. foodcoats has some good points and xorxes not bothering to get the facts correct about kgray's past games is somewhat suspicious.

##VOTE xorxes

Finally he posted his own words. I feel the xorxes read is kinda forced though... Scum

Saying my read is "forced" is vague. What is your opinion on the exchanges between foodcoats and xorxes? What do you think about xorxes basing a read of kgray partially off his recollection of how kgray plays as scum, when she has never been scum here?

[bozotheclown]

Why is that suspicious? What scum motivation would xorxes have to get those facts wrong? I'd argue that scum would be more careful to be correct to avoid nonsensical heat like this

xorxes says he puts more effort in as town.

And I most definitely do. But you and I have very different ideas on what is worth checking and what is not. Rereading old games is something I almost never do, for example, unless I have a strong reason to.

OK, just caught up. In Tom vs kgray, kgray is the clear winner. She seems to be in her town range. I think she was scum only once and if I remember correctly she would avoid having an opinion on things.

Just one thing: I was not townreading damo last game, I was mostly ignoring him, which I tend to do in the early game because I give him the benefit of the doubt. I had him as my third choice for scum when I was killed, and that was completely Vecna's fault.

I don't think I have enough to make a read on him for now, but he did vote for me last game as scum, so I'm wary now.

You said you think kgray is in her town range because "she would avoid having an opinion on things" when she was scum. Whether this was a mistake or a fabrication, it looks like an example of scum level effort from you.

[foodcoats]

My initial vote was not a complete joke, and Neph may very well be scum. I don't believe you're misunderstanding anything, I believe you understand perfectly well the extent of my seriousness and that you are just fabricating a lot of smoke.

I am sorry xorxes, but this explanation still does not make sense.

You are now claiming you seriously voted Neph for reasons you have nowhere explained.

This was your vote:

I think that the argument that one of the damo voters may be scum is interesting. But I'm going to ##vote Neph because that was Chaqa's first vote, and Chaqa's first vote last game proved to be accurate. Also because of the end vote, and because there's not much more to go on at this point.

Do you understand why I am confused? You specifically ignored something you said was an interesting argument, because you were so interested in Chaqa's scumdar capabilities. But now you are claiming your vote was based on other reasons, which are nowhere described in your iso thus far - other than the end vote, which was presented as secondary to your belief in Chaqa.

Now you also are saying Neph may "very well" be scum. That sounds like hedging, when you also claim you were so confident before re:Neph for reasons other than Chaqa-scumdar, which you say now was only gravy.

So, xorxes, maybe I missed it. Why do you think Nephthys is scum?

I voted for Neph after he had posted twice, I think. And yes, the fact that Chaqa voted for him and I remembered last game when I had a similar reaction to a vote by Chaqa on dargo and we happened to be right made me comment on that fact and gave me a bit of confidence that we might be right again. And no, I don't think any of that is in any way a strong argument to think someone is scum, but it's a perfectly normal reason for a first D1 vote. And I have no idea if Neph is scum or not, he may very well be. And the fact that you don't seem to understand any of that after so many explanations makes me think you are trying very hard to not understand.

This is the answer I expected at the very begin of my inquisition, had you drawn town. I don't know, food, it's D1? Christfucker, cool yer boots!

Unfortunately, I don't see how it squares with other things you've said, such as:

I voted for Neph because it felt good to do so with what I had so far at the time, and Chaqa having voted for him was an incentive because I did the same last game and it turned out to be a good hunch.

It seems you are unable to explain what you "had at the time." You've had many chances to explain your inconsistencies and still spiralled. Town would've said, "the end vote, you shit bag!" or "isn't it obvious that i agree with Chaqa that Neph is replicating his last game to appear scummy-town when he is actually scummy-scum?" Or maybe, y'know... had your own reasons! As townies do.

##VOTE xorxes

We've got one!

[xorxes]

You said you think kgray is in her town range because "she would avoid having an opinion on things" when she was scum. Whether this was a mistake or a fabrication, it looks like an example of scum level effort from you.

Yes, I thought I remembered a game where she was scum, but it turns out it was a game where I just thought she was scum (for quite a while, if I remember right). If you like to think that was a fabrication, or low level effort, suit yourself, I don't think I will keep repeating myself on this. I have many unpleasant memories of this type of dialogue with you and I know it doesn't lead anywhere.

[xorxes]

It seems you are unable to explain what you "had at the time." You've had many chances to explain your inconsistencies and still spiralled. Town would've said, "the end vote, you shit bag!" or "isn't it obvious that i agree with Chaqa that Neph is replicating his last game to appear scummy-town when he is actually scummy-scum?" Or maybe, y'know... had your own reasons! As townies do.

##VOTE xorxes

We've got one!

You were already voting for me, what is this second vote for?

Unlike bozo, I do believe you are scum now.

[Tom Bombadil]

I find bozos observation about rivera interesting. If anything, I townread bozo for the hunting.

[bozotheclown]

You said you think kgray is in her town range because "she would avoid having an opinion on things" when she was scum. Whether this was a mistake or a fabrication, it looks like an example of scum level effort from you.

Yes, I thought I remembered a game where she was scum, but it turns out it was a game where I just thought she was scum (for quite a while, if I remember right). If you like to think that was a fabrication, or low level effort, suit yourself, I don't think I will keep repeating myself on this. I have many unpleasant memories of this type of dialogue with you and I know it doesn't lead anywhere.

The only game that it seems you could be referring to is M1010, but kgray was NKed N1 in that game.

[bozotheclown]

This reply is awkward and weird.

Coupled with xorxes' apparent assumption that Chaqa is town - an assumption that I do not believe town!xorxes would make - I believe xorxes is scum.

##VOTE xorxes

##VOTE foodcoats then.

I don't know what you find awkward or weird there, it's basically the truth of what happened last game. As for my "apparent assumption that Chaqa is town - an assumption that I do not believe town!xorxes would make", you just manufactured that out of thin air. I do make plenty of assumptions as town, sometimes more successfully than others, so this "town!xorxes would never make" is something you just made up.

TOWN
Drcjcj
worcej
foodcoats
jamiet99uk
bozo


scum
xorx
tdhfrance
neph

I really like your posts today brain, I am following and it sounds right. I would substitute Jamie for thd in your scum list though.

##VOTE xorxes

I think we should have a xorxes and a Jamie wagon, or a xorxes/Jamie wagon and a thd wagon. I still think that if thd was mafia thd would have said something at this point. They've visited the site in the last 24 hours though, and I certainly don't think a townie would think the best defense is silence.

But I feel better voting for xorxes than for jamie or for thd at the moment; I still think those counter-wagons would be revealing in terms of seeing who gets on what.

Are you referring to your explanation that Dr's attempt to build an information management and analysis strategy was scummy?

What? Why are you making stuff up? When did I say that was scummy?

I'm referring to the made up reason he came up to vote for me.

In retrospect I should have gotten behind that proposal. Scum have all the information and so in theory will try to stop the development of new information. You're doing EXACTLY THIS by trying to get us back on your weak narrative about DrCJG - who was, conversely, trying to find a way to build information.

The proposal was never going to fly, but I said I would support it if there was a consensus. Neither the proposal nor whatever reactions everyone had to it are in the least alignment indicative.

You seemed pretty genuine in your arguments until today. Now you are staring to feel off.

The second and third posts were from M1005, when foodcoats correctly identified the entire mafia team on D2, including xorxes, and xorxes accused foodcoats of making things up.

M1005: "What? Why are you making stuff up?"
M1011: "I do make plenty of assumptions as town, sometimes more successfully than others, so this "town!xorxes would never make" is something you just made up."

[rdrivera2005]

I also dislike Bozo posting quotes without comments. I understand he probably want to make clear the old game references but without comment it just look like filler.
Start a pool of you need to post something and don't know what, Bozo.

I think xorxes may be scum here. foodcoats has some good points and xorxes not bothering to get the facts correct about kgray's past games is somewhat suspicious.

##VOTE xorxes

And I think Bozo is scum. Not only this vote on Xorxes that to me look more like to be seem as "town who doesn't fear to push Xorxes" but also the quotes and the overall behavior.

##vote Bozo

In the first post, rdrivera implies he thinks I am scum posting "filler", but did not vote for me. In the second post he find another reason to scum read me and is willing to vote for me, after I already had a vote. I think there is a good chance rdrivera is scum.

The first post I was still expecting you might make an actual post about the quotes. Then you cast a vote that I don't like, specially the reasoning.
I can follow Food push on Xorxes, as Xorxes answer to Food wasn't what I expect (I expect he will say it was a joke). But your reasoning is forced, I don't see why misremembering Kgray alignments is scum indicative for Xorxes and he puts a lot of effort as scum as we saw two (or three)games ago.

[damo666]

I'll be surprised if there is not at least one scum in food/Xorxes/bozo

Tom and rdr seem pretty towny

Unimpressed with summit's entry.

[bozotheclown]

I also dislike Bozo posting quotes without comments. I understand he probably want to make clear the old game references but without comment it just look like filler.
Start a pool of you need to post something and don't know what, Bozo.

And I think Bozo is scum. Not only this vote on Xorxes that to me look more like to be seem as "town who doesn't fear to push Xorxes" but also the quotes and the overall behavior.

##vote Bozo

In the first post, rdrivera implies he thinks I am scum posting "filler", but did not vote for me. In the second post he find another reason to scum read me and is willing to vote for me, after I already had a vote. I think there is a good chance rdrivera is scum.

The first post I was still expecting you might make an actual post about the quotes. Then you cast a vote that I don't like, specially the reasoning.
I can follow Food push on Xorxes, as Xorxes answer to Food wasn't what I expect (I expect he will say it was a joke). But your reasoning is forced, I don't see why misremembering Kgray alignments is scum indicative for Xorxes and he puts a lot of effort as scum as we saw two (or three)games ago.

I gave 2 specific reasons for voting for xorxes, the first was the points foodcoats made, which you do not seem to have a problem with. As for the second reason, did you see my follow up posts? xorxes did not just misremember something about kgray's alignment, he cited how kgray played as scum in a past game as a reason to town read her this game, which seems more like a fabrication.

When you voted for me you did not give any specific reasons why you did not like my vote for xorxes. Can you explain what you think is scum indicative about the 3 reasons you did give:
1. seem as "town who doesn't fear to push Xorxes"
2. the quotes
3. overall behavior

[bozotheclown]

I'll be surprised if there is not at least one scum in food/Xorxes/bozo

Tom and rdr seem pretty towny

Unimpressed with summit's entry.

What about rdrivera this game makes you think he is more likely town than the 9 other players besides Tom?

What did you like about summit's posts so far?

[bozotheclown]

How are you familiar with Tom's reputation as a good player?

I read somewhere (Discord, I think) that he once faked being a cop with results and got a vig to shoot two scum. Plus worcej called him "leader Tom Bomb" this game.

My concern is that is could have come up in the scum day chat. What kind of Discord are webDip mafia games discussed?

[Chaqa]

How are you familiar with Tom's reputation as a good player?

I read somewhere (Discord, I think) that he once faked being a cop with results and got a vig to shoot two scum. Plus worcej called him "leader Tom Bomb" this game.

My concern is that is could have come up in the scum day chat. What kind of Discord are webDip mafia games discussed?

There’s a webdip mafia discord (pretty dead), the forum games Chanel on webdip (mostly for finding subs) and also brainbomb’s mafia discord (pretty active)

[bozotheclown]

I think xorxes may be scum here. foodcoats has some good points and xorxes not bothering to get the facts correct about kgray's past games is somewhat suspicious.

##VOTE xorxes

Finally he posted his own words. I feel the xorxes read is kinda forced though... Scum

I also dislike Bozo posting quotes without comments. I understand he probably want to make clear the old game references but without comment it just look like filler.
Start a pool of you need to post something and don't know what, Bozo.

And I think Bozo is scum. Not only this vote on Xorxes that to me look more like to be seem as "town who doesn't fear to push Xorxes" but also the quotes and the overall behavior.

##vote Bozo

In the first post, rdrivera implies he thinks I am scum posting "filler", but did not vote for me. In the second post he find another reason to scum read me and is willing to vote for me, after I already had a vote. I think there is a good chance rdrivera is scum.

The first post I was still expecting you might make an actual post about the quotes. Then you cast a vote that I don't like, specially the reasoning.
I can follow Food push on Xorxes, as Xorxes answer to Food wasn't what I expect (I expect he will say it was a joke). But your reasoning is forced, I don't see why misremembering Kgray alignments is scum indicative for Xorxes and he puts a lot of effort as scum as we saw two (or three)games ago.

Whenever someone claims something I said is "forced" or seems "forced", I get the feeling it is a scum tell. It is such a vague claim that is it not really possible to counter. Why would anyone think that I would not have anything better to do as scum than force myself to scum read xorxes?

[bozotheclown]

Stupid fucking comment. I clearly am saying I can't be bothered reading and am leaving it up to others to decide on the importance.

ffs

It's the fucking polar opposite!!!!!

Damo was scum in the game with the second quote. But these are pretty different scenarios. In that game I had misread what someone (bozo?) said and got things backwards. Here, I'm not misunderstanding anything - damo is literally saying he's not going to read the thread. Obviously I think that's scummy but I'm not sure how these two situations are related.

Both posts are atypically discourteous for damo, to the point where I am not sure if he was joking.

[damo666]

Damo was scum in the game with the second quote. But these are pretty different scenarios. In that game I had misread what someone (bozo?) said and got things backwards. Here, I'm not misunderstanding anything - damo is literally saying he's not going to read the thread. Obviously I think that's scummy but I'm not sure how these two situations are related.

Both posts are atypically discourteous for damo, to the point where I am not sure if he was joking.

Expression of frustration, that's all.

[damo666]

I'll be surprised if there is not at least one scum in food/Xorxes/bozo

Tom and rdr seem pretty towny

Unimpressed with summit's entry.

What about rdrivera this game makes you think he is more likely town than the 9 other players besides Tom?

What did you like about summit's posts so far?

rdr - tone

summit - no big opinion

[rdrivera2005]

I think xorxes may be scum here. foodcoats has some good points and xorxes not bothering to get the facts correct about kgray's past games is somewhat suspicious.

##VOTE xorxes

Finally he posted his own words. I feel the xorxes read is kinda forced though... Scum

In the first post, rdrivera implies he thinks I am scum posting "filler", but did not vote for me. In the second post he find another reason to scum read me and is willing to vote for me, after I already had a vote. I think there is a good chance rdrivera is scum.

The first post I was still expecting you might make an actual post about the quotes. Then you cast a vote that I don't like, specially the reasoning.
I can follow Food push on Xorxes, as Xorxes answer to Food wasn't what I expect (I expect he will say it was a joke). But your reasoning is forced, I don't see why misremembering Kgray alignments is scum indicative for Xorxes and he puts a lot of effort as scum as we saw two (or three)games ago.

Whenever someone claims something I said is "forced" or seems "forced", I get the feeling it is a scum tell. It is such a vague claim that is it not really possible to counter. Why would anyone think that I would not have anything better to do as scum than force myself to scum read xorxes?

So, tell me what better things you have to do as scum?

Scum need to seems hunting and pushing Xorxes is a good way to do this.