M55: The Last Party - Game Thread

[Chaqa]

I still do not see in what world a scum neighborizer makes sense.

You really think with the somewhat-weak scumteam we've seen so far, one of the last (presuming two remaining) roles they have is a NEIGHBORIZER?

Everyone who has been in the QT townread(s) me.

[BunnyGo]

I still do not see in what world a scum neighborizer makes sense.

You really think with the somewhat-weak scumteam we've seen so far, one of the last (presuming two remaining) roles they have is a NEIGHBORIZER?

Everyone who has been in the QT townread(s) me.

You literally answered your own question in the same post.

[Vecna]

Ive been suspicious of Chaqa & the QT the entire game, and when I finally get around to letting go of that someone else is taking up that torch.

[Vecna]

Shouldve probably spoke up when you werent on the chopping block and before I made myself completely unbelievable due to my previous error.

If chaqa is scum now, its probably too late.

[Chaqa]

I still do not see in what world a scum neighborizer makes sense.

You really think with the somewhat-weak scumteam we've seen so far, one of the last (presuming two remaining) roles they have is a NEIGHBORIZER?

Everyone who has been in the QT townread(s) me.

You literally answered your own question in the same post.

How?

[Chaqa]

Shouldve probably spoke up when you werent on the chopping block and before I made myself completely unbelievable due to my previous error.

If chaqa is scum now, its probably too late.

lol if I'm scum the Chipotle bet is invalid, and I would NEVER agree to a bet where I might not get my Chipotle

[Vecna]

Well, its not like you had an option whether u were to go along with it. Even if you were scum you'd have to say yes to keep up appearances

[BunnyGo]

Shouldve probably spoke up when you werent on the chopping block and before I made myself completely unbelievable due to my previous error.

If chaqa is scum now, its probably too late.

I’ve been saying it for days!

[BunnyGo]

Shouldve probably spoke up when you werent on the chopping block and before I made myself completely unbelievable due to my previous error.

If chaqa is scum now, its probably too late.

I’ve been saying it for days!

I’ve also been on chopping block since I showed up.

[BunnyGo]

I still do not see in what world a scum neighborizer makes sense.

You really think with the somewhat-weak scumteam we've seen so far, one of the last (presuming two remaining) roles they have is a NEIGHBORIZER?

Everyone who has been in the QT townread(s) me.

You literally answered your own question in the same post.

How?

“Everyone in the QT town reads me.” You have a power that lets you divide town and manipulate them.

[BunnyGo]

Shouldve probably spoke up when you werent on the chopping block and before I made myself completely unbelievable due to my previous error.

If chaqa is scum now, its probably too late.

lol if I'm scum the Chipotle bet is invalid, and I would NEVER agree to a bet where I might not get my Chipotle

You also forgot that bet when the result was revealed....you know it is invalid.

[bozotheclown]

bozo, who, according to your POE and scumreads, could be these deeply hidden scum? Based on everything you know, which two players could feasibly have been so far beyond suspicion that scum felt they did not need to use the protective abilities of the redirector?

You and Chaqa would be one example.

So you believe that Chaqa or I would believe Jamie was bluffing when he claimed he was Babysitting scum? Jamie repeatedly called me scummy. Why would I risk him Babysitting me and order an NK on him nevertheless?

I did not think there was much of a chance he was targeting you, it would have been a reasonable risk to try to take out 2 town. Now that we have found out that the redirector is not what we thought, we know the mafia could not have redirected Jamie's "protection" to town without knowing his target.

[foodcoats]

foodcoats' game solution

I believe the game is more or less solved. damo and Bunny are scum. The case against Bunny is stronger, however, and it's important that we lynch Bunny tomorrow - barring some miraculous reveal tonight.

First of all, we know the ChaQT is clear. Jamie's ability was very clearly spelled out in the QT, and it was never abused by scum. Further, Jamie was killed the same night he claimed he was protecting a scumread (which we now believe to be Vecna). If there was a mole, scum would likely have erred on the side of caution and NK'd someone else. Therefore, Chaqa, xorxes, bozo and myself are clear.

Nephthys cannot be scum as a scum jailer would not have jailed BunnyGo N3. He'd prefer to jail summit to prevent a scan, or jail brainbomb to try to kill summit. Instead, scum used a redirector to redirect anyone trying to save summit onto Vecna. They could not NK summit as it would also redirect the scum killer to Vecna; if they had a jailer in their posse, it would've been a much easier scenario for them. Nephthys did not claim until D4, so would've been able to jail with impunity at that time (it has been pointed out that jailing Vecna last night might've been so that Neph didn't "out" himself as scum by jailing a PR, but that is irrelevant if you consider how Neph's earlier play was obviously not something a scum!jailer would do).

Vecna has been super scummy in some ways but I think is also town, or "the third scum" if lynching Bunny and damo doesn't win us the game. Brainbomb was obviously redirected from summit to Vecna specifically to test if Vecna still had charges. Summit was an obvious protection choice and could not be killed because scum don't have a jailer. Sending protectives to Vecna was a sly way to try to kill them with other town PRs. Vecna is unlikely to be scum or this would not be done by Squigs, the Redirector, as it gave information to town for no purpose. If they weren't testing Vecna, they would have chosen the easier and safer route: redirecting off themselves onto town to prevent being investigated. Remember, emc and flash were alive at this time and not everyone had claimed, so redirecting off themselves would be the straightforward play as they couldn't know for sure both emc and flash would die that night (due to there being protectives in play). Directing off summit onto Vecna had a motive, and that motive was testing Vecna's claim to be out of charges. Vecna also was very insistent on lynching RHK when a few others (such as damo) were toying with believing the 3P-doc-scans-as-scum story. Compared to the Temasek lynch, where Vecna was losing his shit over what ended up being horribly wrong, I think these behaviors indicate a town perspective.

Summit is the Cop who nailed RHK and wasn't immediately killed as scum have tools to avoid the cop scan and realized they needed to take out the protectives and non-alignment investigators (watcher, tracker) first. Also, there was no need for summit to claim against RHK if he was scum - it wouldve made more sense to help RHK survive as a "3P doctor" and mislynch brainbomb.

Damo scanned innocent but scum have lawyering tools. Damo has not claimed. Damo fought to keep DemonRHK alive as 3P doctor. Damo fought very hard for Temasek over Squigs. Conversely, damo was not very active on the town or rdr lynches - because, obviously, he is lazy scum and did not care. There are other elements of damo's iso that are very scummy - Vecna has pointed out how damo has made a variety of crappy, inaccurate statements and then rapidly retracted them - and I will be happy to do a complete iso tomorrow if I survive.

BunnyGo has claimed a role that is unfindable in the literature, despite that all other roles are more or less standard. Bunny was not very clear or consistent in the way this was claimed, and had to be nudged and prodded to clarify it, and Bunny's original statements do not make sense in light of the way he finally stated it; no one thinks "my action" when they actually have no guarantee they will have an action at all, because of the harsh limitations on their role. That's ridiculous, and if you re-read my questioning of Bunny's statements, you'll see how he is obviously making it up as he goes along. Furthermore, the redirection from Bunny to Squigs is by and large likely to have been scum-to-scum because of how dominant a strategy that is compared to redirecting from town-to-scum, which is one of the silliest ideas I have ever heard. Finally, Bunny's iso is also really scummy - generally speaking, he has been wishy-washy most of the game. But I will also iso him tomorrow if people like.

Again, barring any massive reveals, this POE is, in my opinion, ironclad, and Bunny MUST be lynched tomorrow so that town can win the game.

[Chaqa]

Shouldve probably spoke up when you werent on the chopping block and before I made myself completely unbelievable due to my previous error.

If chaqa is scum now, its probably too late.

lol if I'm scum the Chipotle bet is invalid, and I would NEVER agree to a bet where I might not get my Chipotle

You also forgot that bet when the result was revealed....you know it is invalid.

This reminds me of when everyone scumread me for not remembering who Kakarot was

[bozotheclown]

lol if I'm scum the Chipotle bet is invalid, and I would NEVER agree to a bet where I might not get my Chipotle

You also forgot that bet when the result was revealed....you know it is invalid.

This reminds me of when everyone scumread me for not remembering who Kakarot was

I think I was the only one scum reading you for that reason, and you were scum that game, so it concerns me that you say this reminds you of that.

[Nephthys]

Hi Bunny,

I'm sorry, but I am still confused. It is imperative that we understand how your ability works, because it is so important for town's success. If you have a one-shot of xorxes' ability, that is critical to town winning. But I believe the redirection from you to Squigs strongly implies you are the Mafia Lawyer, and Nephthys should jail you tonight.

That makes understanding your role claim IMPERATIVE to town's success. This may be the most crucial night phase of the game. If you are town, I am certain you will help me understand you here!

I have bolded in the quotes below the sections that are causing me confusion, and I repeat them here:

You originally stated, "My role would get no response N2 on its own." You have also just stated, "I would get no message for my action N2. If somebody targeted me, I might get a message." This claim seems to be saying you have an action, but it does not receive messages, or that your role is like Vecna's claimed PGO role, where your role activates involuntarily when someone visits you.

But you also stated, "I am investigative on odd nights, and my other action on even." And you just said, "I learn/absorb on odd nights. That's correct." These two statements seem diametrically opposed, as I had originally understand that learning was your investigative ability, and that your other ability was absorption of some kind.

So now, the difficulty in my understanding is, what exactly is your action on even nights? I had assumed your "other action" was absorption, because you specifically opposed it to your ability to investigate people on odd nights. Again, you said you are "investigative on odd nights, and my other action on even."

Finally, you claim, "My N2 ability would get me no response on its own because I had failed to study with anyone on N1, so I was doing nothing according to worcej."

Are you saying you are a Vanilla Townie on even nights if you do not absorb a power on odd nights? If that is the case, why wouldn't you say "my power only works on odd nights?" Your original claims seem to be suggesting you have an innate power on both nights, and that it changes between the two powers. This also doesn't make sense with you saying, "My role would get no response N2 on its own" or "I would get no message for my action N2." Shouldn't you just have said, "I had no action N2?" Why did you imply you had an action N2 when, as you now claim, you actually have no action on even nights unless you are successful on odd nights?

I was asked about messages I would get at EON. I was being complete. I would get no message for my action N2. If somebody targeted me, I might get a message.

I learn/absorb on odd nights. That's correct. did I say even somewhere?

According to my role, I learn by watching them do an action. So I learned by watching Xorxes act. It doesn't matter who he was acting on. Had I studied with Neph last night, I could jail someone tonight.

My N2 ability would get me no response on its own because I had failed to study with anyone on N1, so I was doing nothing according to worcej. The same is true N4 as I again failed to study on N3.

Hi food. Sorry I’ve been confusing somehow.

Odd nights I attempt to study with someone. I succeed if they do an action. If they are passive or hold an action, I don’t learn. This is “investigating” and “absorbing” simultaneously (as I have to investigate to learn).

Even nights I gain the ability of the most recently successful study. So I will be xorxes role on even nights until I successfully study with someone else. That is my “other action”. Tonight I am investigating someone exactly like xorxes.

On night 2 my “action” was to “party”. That’s my default without learning. It gets no response. The one message I might have expected to get was “you are jailed” or “you got doc saved” whatever.

Fundamentally this should have given you a lightning rod after N1 right?

[Chaqa]

You also forgot that bet when the result was revealed....you know it is invalid.

This reminds me of when everyone scumread me for not remembering who Kakarot was

I think I was the only one scum reading you for that reason, and you were scum that game, so it concerns me that you say this reminds you of that.

Well, the thing was that I truly didn't remember who Kakarot was, moreso than being scumread for it. Go check out my confusion in the mafia QT or the god thread from that game lol

[BunnyGo]

Hi Bunny,

I'm sorry, but I am still confused. It is imperative that we understand how your ability works, because it is so important for town's success. If you have a one-shot of xorxes' ability, that is critical to town winning. But I believe the redirection from you to Squigs strongly implies you are the Mafia Lawyer, and Nephthys should jail you tonight.

That makes understanding your role claim IMPERATIVE to town's success. This may be the most crucial night phase of the game. If you are town, I am certain you will help me understand you here!

I have bolded in the quotes below the sections that are causing me confusion, and I repeat them here:

You originally stated, "My role would get no response N2 on its own." You have also just stated, "I would get no message for my action N2. If somebody targeted me, I might get a message." This claim seems to be saying you have an action, but it does not receive messages, or that your role is like Vecna's claimed PGO role, where your role activates involuntarily when someone visits you.

But you also stated, "I am investigative on odd nights, and my other action on even." And you just said, "I learn/absorb on odd nights. That's correct." These two statements seem diametrically opposed, as I had originally understand that learning was your investigative ability, and that your other ability was absorption of some kind.

So now, the difficulty in my understanding is, what exactly is your action on even nights? I had assumed your "other action" was absorption, because you specifically opposed it to your ability to investigate people on odd nights. Again, you said you are "investigative on odd nights, and my other action on even."

Finally, you claim, "My N2 ability would get me no response on its own because I had failed to study with anyone on N1, so I was doing nothing according to worcej."

Are you saying you are a Vanilla Townie on even nights if you do not absorb a power on odd nights? If that is the case, why wouldn't you say "my power only works on odd nights?" Your original claims seem to be suggesting you have an innate power on both nights, and that it changes between the two powers. This also doesn't make sense with you saying, "My role would get no response N2 on its own" or "I would get no message for my action N2." Shouldn't you just have said, "I had no action N2?" Why did you imply you had an action N2 when, as you now claim, you actually have no action on even nights unless you are successful on odd nights?

Hi food. Sorry I’ve been confusing somehow.

Odd nights I attempt to study with someone. I succeed if they do an action. If they are passive or hold an action, I don’t learn. This is “investigating” and “absorbing” simultaneously (as I have to investigate to learn).

Even nights I gain the ability of the most recently successful study. So I will be xorxes role on even nights until I successfully study with someone else. That is my “other action”. Tonight I am investigating someone exactly like xorxes.

On night 2 my “action” was to “party”. That’s my default without learning. It gets no response. The one message I might have expected to get was “you are jailed” or “you got doc saved” whatever.

Fundamentally this should have given you a lightning rod after N1 right?

I wish. But I couldn’t find him to study apparently. You jailed him first.

[Nephthys]

cmon, xorxes, briefly read just one of my old scum games again and look at how shallow my reasoning is compared to what im doing here.

pretty please. Just because ive been wrong quite a bunch doesnt mean my reasoning wasn't very relatable.

Anyways, just for prosperities sake, I propose the following:

"1 minute" before EoN:
-Bunny should out your role and how it works and what it looks for, as detailed as he can (unless you strongly object, but this is probably the defining moment of the game once again)
-Neph should out his jail target 1 second before EoN (just in case im wrong so scum cannot change their order. I HAVE successfully done this once as scum with people doing it 1 minute before deadline).

Regardless, noone should out their target before neph has announced his jail target. Making sure he can be caught in a lie here will be awesome. Him being forced to actually jail the modifier if im right will be awesome.

Sure

[Nephthys]

And I also get your reasoning. But my point is that we cannot know what type of logic they applied to the situation.

If scum is Damo and Neph, they would try to play it cleverly, by trying to use their abilities to make themselves look good and others look bad.

That is the type of player Neph is. He isnt some big dumbo that cannot predict to some extent how we are going to react to certain actions.

And once again, im not certain on Bunny=town

Ive been pinged by his play for a while, and had mild suspicions ever since he started sheeping and townreading me. Im just saying, that the way he described his reasons and role looked moderately good to me.

Maybe im staring blind at Neph because if the tragically scummy timing on some of his actions. But normally I can always succesfully call him town if he's town on D1 or D2. This game I have gotten no townpings from his slot whatsoever, except for the strong tunneling on me that has looked towny at times (but horrendous at other times).

So TLDR you have no clue?