M55: The Last Party - Game Thread

[Vecna]

that solve has the unlucky downside that its very easy for them to claim that he jailed damo, while in fact he doesnt jail anyone

[xorxes]

I dno, maybe hes charming the shit out of me, but all the stuff he has stated in the last hour screams town to me.

The flavour for the role feels very much in line with my own role pm to me (poking fun at students to a certain extent, studying, and if they fail to do that, just party).

The reasoning of choosing Xorx being two-folded beneficial seems pretty towny to me (Bunny might be smart enough to think of it as scum, but it felt to come out pretty natural).

The fact he is actually hard-focusing on Chaqa here as his major scumread.......could be designed to appeal to me and my earlier suspicions, but doesnt feel survivalist at all.

The Student role he describes is indeed very believable. I'm just uncertain whether it was designed by worcej or by Vecna. It doesn't seem to be a standard role, or at least I haven't found it anywhere.

[BunnyGo]

I dno, maybe hes charming the shit out of me, but all the stuff he has stated in the last hour screams town to me.

The flavour for the role feels very much in line with my own role pm to me (poking fun at students to a certain extent, studying, and if they fail to do that, just party).

The reasoning of choosing Xorx being two-folded beneficial seems pretty towny to me (Bunny might be smart enough to think of it as scum, but it felt to come out pretty natural).

The fact he is actually hard-focusing on Chaqa here as his major scumread.......could be designed to appeal to me and my earlier suspicions, but doesnt feel survivalist at all.

The Student role he describes is indeed very believable. I'm just uncertain whether it was designed by worcej or by Vecna. It doesn't seem to be a standard role, or at least I haven't found it anywhere.

Are you satisfied yet, or should I use a different method to tell you your role?

[Chaqa]

Bunny needs to post what he learned about xorxes' role before night ends (ideally at exactly EoN).

If this doesn't match up 100% with xorxes' we lynch him.

Even if it does, we might still lynch him, since he's probably just a mafia role cop or role thief.

[xorxes]

I dno, maybe hes charming the shit out of me, but all the stuff he has stated in the last hour screams town to me.

The flavour for the role feels very much in line with my own role pm to me (poking fun at students to a certain extent, studying, and if they fail to do that, just party).

The reasoning of choosing Xorx being two-folded beneficial seems pretty towny to me (Bunny might be smart enough to think of it as scum, but it felt to come out pretty natural).

The fact he is actually hard-focusing on Chaqa here as his major scumread.......could be designed to appeal to me and my earlier suspicions, but doesnt feel survivalist at all.

The Student role he describes is indeed very believable. I'm just uncertain whether it was designed by worcej or by Vecna. It doesn't seem to be a standard role, or at least I haven't found it anywhere.

Are you satisfied yet, or should I use a different method to tell you your role?

I'm pretty sure already you know what my role is. But since you have not received a copy of my exact role PM, that doesn't tell me if you learned it from worcej or from someone in the QT, or you whether guessed it.

[Vecna]

cmon, xorxes, briefly read just one of my old scum games again and look at how shallow my reasoning is compared to what im doing here.

pretty please. Just because ive been wrong quite a bunch doesnt mean my reasoning wasn't very relatable.

Anyways, just for prosperities sake, I propose the following:

"1 minute" before EoN:
-Bunny should out your role and how it works and what it looks for, as detailed as he can (unless you strongly object, but this is probably the defining moment of the game once again)
-Neph should out his jail target 1 second before EoN (just in case im wrong so scum cannot change their order. I HAVE successfully done this once as scum with people doing it 1 minute before deadline).

Regardless, noone should out their target before neph has announced his jail target. Making sure he can be caught in a lie here will be awesome. Him being forced to actually jail the modifier if im right will be awesome.

[Chaqa]

There's a lot of tinfoil going around.

Realistically:
the entire QT is clear
Neph is town
Vecna is town
Bozo is town
Summit is town

scum is: Bunny/Damo

[Chaqa]

If Bunny flips scum that isn't role thief/role cop, then the mole is obviously foodcoats.

[BunnyGo]

If Bunny flips scum that isn't role thief/role cop, then the mole is obviously foodcoats.

Dude...you've gone from weird actions, to not hunting. You're just spouting off the same thing in different assertive ways. It's getting annoying the "WE'VE GOT 'EM" and "SURRENDER NOW" and "IS IT STILL NIGHT?! CAN THE GAME JUST BE DONE?" It makes you look even worse...

[Chaqa]

If Bunny flips scum that isn't role thief/role cop, then the mole is obviously foodcoats.

Dude...you've gone from weird actions, to not hunting. You're just spouting off the same thing in different assertive ways. It's getting annoying the "WE'VE GOT 'EM" and "SURRENDER NOW" and "IS IT STILL NIGHT?! CAN THE GAME JUST BE DONE?" It makes you look even worse...

Look at it from my perspective, man.

I have reason to believe there is no mole in the QT. This clears Xorx and Foodcoats and also potentially 1 other as I have stopped broadcasting if I've added anyone.

I've got sound logical reasons why Neph is town.

Summit is most likely town due to his scan on RHK.

This leaves Bozo, Damo, Vecna, and you.

Bozo has xorxes saying he's clear-ish, and both of us know why if you aren't lying.

Damo was scanned by summit and cleared, so he's on the radar but only if either:
1. summit is scum OR
2. he was Lawyer'd

Vecna, just for a number of reasons, as well as a read, I don't see as scum unless there's THREE scum remaining and the scumteam is exactly Vecna, Neph, food.

That leaves you.

You can keep shading me all you want, but I don't need to make eighty thousand more random-ass theories or re-read the game at this point. My role doesn't make any sense as scum in this setup, and I've played it exceedingly towny according to xorx AND food AND Jamie and all the others who have been in my QT.

I don't know what else you want, man.

[foodcoats]

I dont particularly agree with all the logic of this post.

If youre scum and you want to protect bunny from investigatives, is redirecting him to squigs really the way you do it? Because its been demonstrated time and time again that people know if they suddenly have a different target.

It couldve just been a poorly thought out hail mary, but the redirect part feels like a waste. Much more likely they just use it to set up bunny and make him suspicious.

also, scum doesnt actually need to make me look suspicious. If there is a hidden scum that is unsuspected, they know they already have the numbers to lynch me easily later on. If there is any smart scumplay going on at all, Im being kept alive as a mislynch later on for sure.

Vecna, your logic is deeply flawed here.

First of all, scum thrive on uncertainty. You are claiming that, because those who are redirected know they were redirected, it is more optimal for scum to redirect from a town player to a scum player.

This is categorically wrong because redirecting from a scum to a scum player produces just as much uncertainty for town, no more or less.

Further, you are assuming that scum is in such a dominant position that they were willing to accept leaving an extra member of their team open to 1) investigation or 2) jailing - and in the case of their Lawyer/JOAT being jailed, losing their lawyering ability for the night. You are saying that they were willing to do all that, rather than simply protect one of their own with the redirection and create just as much WIFOM as they would anyway.

Finally, if you think Bunny is likely to be town, and knowing now that xorxes, Chaqa, Jamie, bozo and myself are all not scum (or Jamie's claim to be Babysitting scum would've been abused with the NK), then you are claiming that the scum team exists in the following set: Vecna, Nephthys, summit, damo.

Is that correct? I assume you are not claiming scum for yourself, and I assume that you are also not honestly believing summit is scum. Do you believe that the two remaining scum are Nephthys and damo?

[Vecna]

Yes food, that is what I believe

[foodcoats]

I dont think scum would redirect from one teammate to the next.

It wouldnt achieve shit, since people would know, and would just be highly suspicious. It might be a level two play to just wifom us to be less suspicious of bunny, but once again, im the only one bringing this up.

It feels much more likely they were trying to set up the most likely mislynch to look even more suspicious.

My solve is simply damo + neph here

This is completely flawed because there is no less uncertainty redirecting form scum to scum, and redirecting from scum to scum provided additional protection against jailing and investigation. See my post above.

[foodcoats]

Yes food, that is what I believe

Can you explain your cases against both Nephthys and damo? Aside from POE, what makes them scum?

[foodcoats]

@BunnyGo: Thank you for the explanations, I understand your role now.

[Vecna]

And I also get your reasoning. But my point is that we cannot know what type of logic they applied to the situation.

If scum is Damo and Neph, they would try to play it cleverly, by trying to use their abilities to make themselves look good and others look bad.

That is the type of player Neph is. He isnt some big dumbo that cannot predict to some extent how we are going to react to certain actions.

And once again, im not certain on Bunny=town

Ive been pinged by his play for a while, and had mild suspicions ever since he started sheeping and townreading me. Im just saying, that the way he described his reasons and role looked moderately good to me.

Maybe im staring blind at Neph because if the tragically scummy timing on some of his actions. But normally I can always succesfully call him town if he's town on D1 or D2. This game I have gotten no townpings from his slot whatsoever, except for the strong tunneling on me that has looked towny at times (but horrendous at other times).

[foodcoats]

And I also get your reasoning. But my point is that we cannot know what type of logic they applied to the situation.

If scum is Damo and Neph, they would try to play it cleverly, by trying to use their abilities to make themselves look good and others look bad.

That is the type of player Neph is. He isnt some big dumbo that cannot predict to some extent how we are going to react to certain actions.

And once again, im not certain on Bunny=town

Ive been pinged by his play for a while, and had mild suspicions ever since he started sheeping and townreading me. Im just saying, that the way he described his reasons and role looked moderately good to me.

Maybe im staring blind at Neph because if the tragically scummy timing on some of his actions. But normally I can always succesfully call him town if he's town on D1 or D2. This game I have gotten no townpings from his slot whatsoever, except for the strong tunneling on me that has looked towny at times (but horrendous at other times).

"If scum is Damo and Neph, they would try to play it cleverly, by trying to use their abilities to make themselves look good and others look bad."

This is not an acceptable reason to lynch damo or Nephthys tomorrow. You are literally just saying If they are, then they would be.

[foodcoats]

@Nephthys: I think you MUST jail BunnyGo tonight as it gives us the best chance of jailing the scum lawyer/JOAT with lawyering abilities. This gives town the best possible chance to get a good scan, as we need to jail the lawyer for summit's scan to be viable.

[Vecna]

Yes food, that is what I believe

Can you explain your cases against both Nephthys and damo? Aside from POE, what makes them scum?

My case on Damo is actually quite weak. Ive had several times I thought I had town-pings on his slot.

The main argument id make relies on the following two points:
1: He sheeped me on donny very easily on day1. Didnt question it, didnt argue anything (I think? im sure he can point it out if im wrong on this). I was majorly townreading Donny for the entirety of day1 until Fox reminded me of the slip that I had pointed out. I called it out for what it was, and started urging Donny hard to walk me through it, on how he found the info. I stated I had a bad feeling on it and was still townreading Donny by play. I tried really hard to get him to interact with me. Asked him about his bookmarks and to link the QT he had seen the role in. Where on the bot he found the role, what game etc. Quite a lot of effort. Then after the flip, Damo casually comes in and claims I tried to set up Donny to look bad. He ignores all the stuff I did to try and get donny to answer and explain himself. He doesnt look at anyone that hopped on without trying to get to the bottom of it. He blames me. Felt very dishonest to me.

2: and I feel this might be way more damning: Damo has had a bunch of moments where he says something very confidently, but then when questioned on it he instantly walks back on the statements. This is something you rarely see from Damo as town, but very often from him as scum. As scum his first response when pressured is to just back off from statements or reads. The very first game he played here as scum, he came in to scumread me confidently, then upon the weakest pressure, he backed off. He did that on at least two occasions, where I felt that town Damo wouldve been much more adamant, and actually have reasons to back up why he said certain things.

Now, im going to admit straight away that these two reasons are quite confbiassed. Ive had minor townreads on Damo throughout the game, so yes, it is still mainly a PoE thing. But, these two points do fit very well with how Damo would play in the game as scum.

Maybe you can think of a few stances that DAmo has strongly had throughout the game, that he has persued? That he pushed? I dont think there are many, but so much has happened that maybe im forgetfull.

[BunnyGo]

@Nephthys: I think you MUST jail BunnyGo tonight as it gives us the best chance of jailing the scum lawyer/JOAT with lawyering abilities. This gives town the best possible chance to get a good scan, as we need to jail the lawyer for summit's scan to be viable.

It gives up my scan...