M55: The Last Party - Game Thread

[foodcoats]

##CALL GM

Does Night end at the regular time today? 5 p.m. EST?

[Vecna]

Why do you think scum were so certain you'd be scanned? The redirector effectively allowed them to Lawyer two players at once. The straightforward play, to my mind, is that they would use it on a second scum so that 2/3rds of the time, if a scum was cop-scanned, the result would be a clear on Squigs, who was lawyered. Using the redirector on town was the riskier play.

Who do you think would mastermind such a risky play? What information or claims do you think led them to believe they could get away with it?

If you look back, a lot of people were saying how scummy I was. I wasn't sure why (except POE and some dargo stuff?). So I was expecting summit to clear me. I was also expecting summit might scan squigs to be sure (not completely necessary, since we were going to lynch, but would be nice). What other person did you expect summit to scan that night? Who else was likely? I think if scum was thinking about it, they'd realize this too.

Who would mastermind an insane play like this? Chaq. Chaqa does crazy shit, and it sometimes works. Why not redirect to him (or a different teammate)? Because that would look even weirder (also, they couldn't be sure summit wasn't just scanning squigs directly), and they were planning on sacrificing squigs soon anyways. Squigs could even make the claim he did knowing that Xorxes might be able to test him because they didn't expect him to make it to the end.

Get away with what? the lawyer-ish effect on Squigs? They almost did until xorxes stomped it.

This is not accurate, insofar as most of the suspicion was heaped on Vecna N5, and I would say you were equally suspected with Chaqa. (I have just reread the N5 thread entirely.)

The idea that scum would try such a ploy implies they would work very hard to figure out who the investigatives would target. It implies they would feel absolutely confident that both investigatives would target the same person. Based on the debate N5, there could be basically no way for scum to be confident that both xorxes and summit would scan the same person - because although xorxes analyzed on N5, summit remained silent, so there was no ability to cross-reference - and if they did, I think the logical assumption would be Vecna, not you, because Vecna was heavily questioned - whereas the ideas about BunnyGo being scum were not very deep or pursued at length.

I understand your logic, but it is biased with you at the centre of your story. If scum was looking at N5 and deciding to try a high-risk play to cast aspersions, they would've most likely done it to Vecna, who was at the centre of an inquisition N5.

I dont particularly agree with all the logic of this post.

If youre scum and you want to protect bunny from investigatives, is redirecting him to squigs really the way you do it? Because its been demonstrated time and time again that people know if they suddenly have a different target.

It couldve just been a poorly thought out hail mary, but the redirect part feels like a waste. Much more likely they just use it to set up bunny and make him suspicious.

also, scum doesnt actually need to make me look suspicious. If there is a hidden scum that is unsuspected, they know they already have the numbers to lynch me easily later on. If there is any smart scumplay going on at all, Im being kept alive as a mislynch later on for sure.

[BunnyGo]

Hi Bunny,

I'm sorry, but I am still confused. It is imperative that we understand how your ability works, because it is so important for town's success. If you have a one-shot of xorxes' ability, that is critical to town winning. But I believe the redirection from you to Squigs strongly implies you are the Mafia Lawyer, and Nephthys should jail you tonight.

That makes understanding your role claim IMPERATIVE to town's success. This may be the most crucial night phase of the game. If you are town, I am certain you will help me understand you here!

I have bolded in the quotes below the sections that are causing me confusion, and I repeat them here:

You originally stated, "My role would get no response N2 on its own." You have also just stated, "I would get no message for my action N2. If somebody targeted me, I might get a message." This claim seems to be saying you have an action, but it does not receive messages, or that your role is like Vecna's claimed PGO role, where your role activates involuntarily when someone visits you.

But you also stated, "I am investigative on odd nights, and my other action on even." And you just said, "I learn/absorb on odd nights. That's correct." These two statements seem diametrically opposed, as I had originally understand that learning was your investigative ability, and that your other ability was absorption of some kind.

So now, the difficulty in my understanding is, what exactly is your action on even nights? I had assumed your "other action" was absorption, because you specifically opposed it to your ability to investigate people on odd nights. Again, you said you are "investigative on odd nights, and my other action on even."

Finally, you claim, "My N2 ability would get me no response on its own because I had failed to study with anyone on N1, so I was doing nothing according to worcej."

Are you saying you are a Vanilla Townie on even nights if you do not absorb a power on odd nights? If that is the case, why wouldn't you say "my power only works on odd nights?" Your original claims seem to be suggesting you have an innate power on both nights, and that it changes between the two powers. This also doesn't make sense with you saying, "My role would get no response N2 on its own" or "I would get no message for my action N2." Shouldn't you just have said, "I had no action N2?" Why did you imply you had an action N2 when, as you now claim, you actually have no action on even nights unless you are successful on odd nights?

Bunny, can you explain what you meant when you said earlier that your N2 ability would not do anything unless you were acted on? Later you said that on odd nights you are investigative and on even nights you are your "other action," which I assume to be your absorber/learner action.

But you are claiming you learned xorxes' action on N5, an odd night. So you could not get the ability to use it, only investigate it.

Unless you absorb/learn on odd nights, and you had it backwards? But if you are investigating on even nights, why did you say below that your N2 ability does nothing on its own? Does that mean you need to investigate someone and they also need to put an action on you for you to learn about their role?

I was asked about messages I would get at EON. I was being complete. I would get no message for my action N2. If somebody targeted me, I might get a message.

I learn/absorb on odd nights. That's correct. did I say even somewhere?

According to my role, I learn by watching them do an action. So I learned by watching Xorxes act. It doesn't matter who he was acting on. Had I studied with Neph last night, I could jail someone tonight.

My N2 ability would get me no response on its own because I had failed to study with anyone on N1, so I was doing nothing according to worcej. The same is true N4 as I again failed to study on N3.

Hi food. Sorry I’ve been confusing somehow.

Odd nights I attempt to study with someone. I succeed if they do an action. If they are passive or hold an action, I don’t learn. This is “investigating” and “absorbing” simultaneously (as I have to investigate to learn).

Even nights I gain the ability of the most recently successful study. So I will be xorxes role on even nights until I successfully study with someone else. That is my “other action”. Tonight I am investigating someone exactly like xorxes.

On night 2 my “action” was to “party”. That’s my default without learning. It gets no response. The one message I might have expected to get was “you are jailed” or “you got doc saved” whatever.

[BunnyGo]

Xorxes, do you have any objection to bunny fullclaiming what your role exactly does at EoN?

so that we can confirm his role before your potential demise? (so he doesnt get a chance to first see the role pm and then just use that to infer what type of result he wouldve gotten).

I can do that. But it would be best if bozo and Damo claim first. And anyone else who hasn’t claimed.

[BunnyGo]

Now....bunny....some questions for you

1: What is the result if you wouldve targetted someone without an activated but a triggered ability?

2: What is your logic to target xorxes and get an investigative ability only next night, while its been pretty obvious for a while that scum have at least 2 roles that visit people? Why not just try to get a DIRECT guilty on scum by finding the modifier or the role that was doing the redirecting?

1) no result. I can’t learn if they don’t do.

2) two-fold. Chaqa has said that xorxes role was awesome. I wasn’t sure if he was being stupid or coy, but I wanted to see if xorxes really had an awesome role or was the sex cult mole. If he did, I’d get it too. If he didn’t, I’d out xorxes. It’s yet another reason I think chaqa may be the mole.

Another reason not to study with you is that if you ARE Town (and not scum!JOAT) then I’m useless again tonight. Same with other players that don’t do actions.

I could have studied with summit, but I Town read him more than xorxes. This felt like a reasonable compromise.

[BunnyGo]

Why do you think scum were so certain you'd be scanned? The redirector effectively allowed them to Lawyer two players at once. The straightforward play, to my mind, is that they would use it on a second scum so that 2/3rds of the time, if a scum was cop-scanned, the result would be a clear on Squigs, who was lawyered. Using the redirector on town was the riskier play.

Who do you think would mastermind such a risky play? What information or claims do you think led them to believe they could get away with it?

If you look back, a lot of people were saying how scummy I was. I wasn't sure why (except POE and some dargo stuff?). So I was expecting summit to clear me. I was also expecting summit might scan squigs to be sure (not completely necessary, since we were going to lynch, but would be nice). What other person did you expect summit to scan that night? Who else was likely? I think if scum was thinking about it, they'd realize this too.

Who would mastermind an insane play like this? Chaq. Chaqa does crazy shit, and it sometimes works. Why not redirect to him (or a different teammate)? Because that would look even weirder (also, they couldn't be sure summit wasn't just scanning squigs directly), and they were planning on sacrificing squigs soon anyways. Squigs could even make the claim he did knowing that Xorxes might be able to test him because they didn't expect him to make it to the end.

Get away with what? the lawyer-ish effect on Squigs? They almost did until xorxes stomped it.

This is not accurate, insofar as most of the suspicion was heaped on Vecna N5, and I would say you were equally suspected with Chaqa. (I have just reread the N5 thread entirely.)

The idea that scum would try such a ploy implies they would work very hard to figure out who the investigatives would target. It implies they would feel absolutely confident that both investigatives would target the same person. Based on the debate N5, there could be basically no way for scum to be confident that both xorxes and summit would scan the same person - because although xorxes analyzed on N5, summit remained silent, so there was no ability to cross-reference - and if they did, I think the logical assumption would be Vecna, not you, because Vecna was heavily questioned - whereas the ideas about BunnyGo being scum were not very deep or pursued at length.

I understand your logic, but it is biased with you at the centre of your story. If scum was looking at N5 and deciding to try a high-risk play to cast aspersions, they would've most likely done it to Vecna, who was at the centre of an inquisition N5.

I think they only had to read summit. Xorxes had announced he had a different power when he outed RHK.

[Chaqa]

Is it day yet

[xorxes]

Xorxes, do you have any objection to bunny fullclaiming what your role exactly does at EoN?

so that we can confirm his role before your potential demise? (so he doesnt get a chance to first see the role pm and then just use that to infer what type of result he wouldve gotten).

Here's a better idea: He can prove that he has seen my role by revealing which one word comes after "Your day job" in my role PM.

That should be conclusive proof that he has seen my role, which seems likely at this point. It will also tell us that he did not learn my role through a mole in the QT, because nobody in the QT knows that detail. Unfortunately it tells us nothing about his alignment.

[Chaqa]

Xorxes, do you have any objection to bunny fullclaiming what your role exactly does at EoN?

so that we can confirm his role before your potential demise? (so he doesnt get a chance to first see the role pm and then just use that to infer what type of result he wouldve gotten).

Here's a better idea: He can prove that he has seen my role by revealing which one word comes after "Your day job" in my role PM.

That should be conclusive proof that he has seen my role, which seems likely at this point. It will also tell us that he did not learn my role through a mole in the QT, because nobody in the QT knows that detail. Unfortunately it tells us nothing about his alignment.

370 - 4

[xorxes]

If youre scum and you want to protect bunny from investigatives, is redirecting him to squigs really the way you do it? Because its been demonstrated time and time again that people know if they suddenly have a different target.

It couldve just been a poorly thought out hail mary, but the redirect part feels like a waste. Much more likely they just use it to set up bunny and make him suspicious.

Nobody seemed to think Bunny was suspicious before my reveal though. It looked like the wagons were set up to be bozo vs Neph for D6.

[xorxes]

Xorxes, do you have any objection to bunny fullclaiming what your role exactly does at EoN?

so that we can confirm his role before your potential demise? (so he doesnt get a chance to first see the role pm and then just use that to infer what type of result he wouldve gotten).

I can do that. But it would be best if bozo and Damo claim first. And anyone else who hasn’t claimed.

Just tell us the word that comes after "Your day job" in my role PM.

[BunnyGo]

Xorxes, do you have any objection to bunny fullclaiming what your role exactly does at EoN?

so that we can confirm his role before your potential demise? (so he doesnt get a chance to first see the role pm and then just use that to infer what type of result he wouldve gotten).

I can do that. But it would be best if bozo and Damo claim first. And anyone else who hasn’t claimed.

Just tell us the word that comes after "Your day job" in my role PM.

I only got action/effect, not role. I can name that...but I think neither of us want me to yet.

[Vecna]

If youre scum and you want to protect bunny from investigatives, is redirecting him to squigs really the way you do it? Because its been demonstrated time and time again that people know if they suddenly have a different target.

It couldve just been a poorly thought out hail mary, but the redirect part feels like a waste. Much more likely they just use it to set up bunny and make him suspicious.

Nobody seemed to think Bunny was suspicious before my reveal though. It looked like the wagons were set up to be bozo vs Neph for D6.

You dont think so? From my POV nearly the entire game is and was scumreading bunny?

[xorxes]

Xorxes, do you have any objection to bunny fullclaiming what your role exactly does at EoN?

so that we can confirm his role before your potential demise? (so he doesnt get a chance to first see the role pm and then just use that to infer what type of result he wouldve gotten).

Here's a better idea: He can prove that he has seen my role by revealing which one word comes after "Your day job" in my role PM.

That should be conclusive proof that he has seen my role, which seems likely at this point. It will also tell us that he did not learn my role through a mole in the QT, because nobody in the QT knows that detail. Unfortunately it tells us nothing about his alignment.

370 - 4

371 - 5

Wait, it's night, why don't we just talk in the QT?

[BunnyGo]

Here's a better idea: He can prove that he has seen my role by revealing which one word comes after "Your day job" in my role PM.

That should be conclusive proof that he has seen my role, which seems likely at this point. It will also tell us that he did not learn my role through a mole in the QT, because nobody in the QT knows that detail. Unfortunately it tells us nothing about his alignment.

370 - 4

371 - 5

Wait, it's night, why don't we just talk in the QT?

LOL!

I'm trying to think of another way to order and describe your role to you. Maybe a code or hint in a message?

[xorxes]

I can do that. But it would be best if bozo and Damo claim first. And anyone else who hasn’t claimed.

Just tell us the word that comes after "Your day job" in my role PM.

I only got action/effect, not role. I can name that...but I think neither of us want me to yet.

I'm confused. What do you mean by action/effect?

[Vecna]

I dno, maybe hes charming the shit out of me, but all the stuff he has stated in the last hour screams town to me.

The flavour for the role feels very much in line with my own role pm to me (poking fun at students to a certain extent, studying, and if they fail to do that, just party).

The reasoning of choosing Xorx being two-folded beneficial seems pretty towny to me (Bunny might be smart enough to think of it as scum, but it felt to come out pretty natural).

The fact he is actually hard-focusing on Chaqa here as his major scumread.......could be designed to appeal to me and my earlier suspicions, but doesnt feel survivalist at all.

[xorxes]

If youre scum and you want to protect bunny from investigatives, is redirecting him to squigs really the way you do it? Because its been demonstrated time and time again that people know if they suddenly have a different target.

It couldve just been a poorly thought out hail mary, but the redirect part feels like a waste. Much more likely they just use it to set up bunny and make him suspicious.

Nobody seemed to think Bunny was suspicious before my reveal though. It looked like the wagons were set up to be bozo vs Neph for D6.

You dont think so? From my POV nearly the entire game is and was scumreading bunny?

I had him in my list of unknowns, which is why I targeted him. And start of D6 after summit revealed his scan everyone seemed happy to leave him and Squigs alone.

[BunnyGo]

Just tell us the word that comes after "Your day job" in my role PM.

I only got action/effect, not role. I can name that...but I think neither of us want me to yet.

I'm confused. What do you mean by action/effect?

He told me what I learned from studying with you. Didn't send me your specific role. Didn't include the exact language. But included things like "what I can learn" and whether it counts as investigative or protective...

[Vecna]

I dont think scum would redirect from one teammate to the next.

It wouldnt achieve shit, since people would know, and would just be highly suspicious. It might be a level two play to just wifom us to be less suspicious of bunny, but once again, im the only one bringing this up.

It feels much more likely they were trying to set up the most likely mislynch to look even more suspicious.

My solve is simply damo + neph here