M55: The Last Party - Game Thread

[BunnyGo]

While at the same time my role was designed in such way that it DID get "screwed over" by the lightning rod.

Also to screw over town with the given of how many visiting roles we have compared to scum. Also to apparently end up being recruited by the 3p if ever visited by it.

Mine has been specifically screwed TWICE by the jailor. The jailor/LR combo screwed me big, but it was actually a bit clever. Mine is a bit OP if allowed to operate freely N1. Was unfortunate I didn't get to go N3.

I still don't get how town has an alignment cop AND an any phase better than alignment cop.

Like, why didn't Sarah claim "Everyone please post 'I am Town'" day 1? We could have WON by day X with so much protective firepower for her.

[BunnyGo]

Temasek's role is at least theoretically possible. The wiki suggests that the GM could answer, "I don't know" to complex, non-objectively-verifiable questions. But I take the point that it would allow for a mass claim situation that could procedurally solve the game, and is therefore not likely to have been included.

I think the fact that damo, Vecna and BunnyGo are all trying to turn this into suspicion against bozo and xorxes is ridiculous. It smacks of scum theatre to me.

Bozo is being coy. But presumably Bozo scum implies Xorxes scum.

Might be worth a reread with bozo/Xorxes/Demon/Sarah-Tem in mind.

im not sure Tem has the knowledge required to know of the online mafia role myth that is the lie detector

This must be a fakeclaim, no? Or the scum information gathering role?

This role is way too powerful to exist for town in any meaningful game. It is by definition a way stronger cop since it can create ABSOLUTE innocents or guilties that cannot be fucked with in any way. Get people to state their alignment, check it, boom. And thats the absolute worst possible use you could come up with.

If you get people to make certain statements, it can even clear or guilty multiple people at once

##vote Temasek

I'm kinda with you there. Even if it turns up that Temasek says "squigs is lying"or "squigs is telling truth" and is correct, it's still more likely Temasek is scum.

Now that I stop and think...this is the PERFECT fake claim for scum. Of course someone like Xorxes will suggest using it as a cop scan, and scum can do that.

Considering that so far, it seems to be consensus that this role would be gamebreaking, I think it's patently obvious that scum!xorxes would not endorse such a harebrained plan.

We need to be a little cautious here. As I said before, I honestly think the game is quite narrow now and is close to being solved, and scum are going to be trying to bus or sow confusion in order to push through. I do think that Tem is scum because we already have two investigatives who can more or less directly ID scum, even if there are a few caveats. But it's extra suspicious to me that the three people most interested in commenting on Tem's claim are three people who are very possibly scum, and they are trying to lead the thought process onto some of our towniest players.

I'm not accusing xorxes of anything but being more clever than me when the role got claimed. He had a good idea.

I'm saying xorxes' idea was predictable by a scum team thinking of a fake claim. And easy for scum to then manipulate.

I'm saying the role as claimed by Temasek is so fu*$ing OP that town can guarantee a win by a hard claim and using all firepower to protect for a couple days (including LR, jailor, role cop, doctor, etc. etc. etc.).

The fact the claim didn't happen until now, and the fact the role is SOOOO overpowered is absurd. I literally don't believe that worcej would put it into a closed role madness. I literally don't believe that it would go until DAY 5 without being used!!

[BunnyGo]

In the midst of this confusion... I think keeping the Squigs wagon, and ensuring there is no secondary wagon, is actually probably still a good strategy.

Squiggs seemed really scummy before this wagon, and now there is some bananas stuff going on. Best to trust our "yesterday selves" I think.

Here's a multi part question for you:

1) If Temasek says that squigs is town, then what?
2) If Temasek says that squigs is scum, AND squigs flips scum, then what?

The only other case is easy (squigs shoots lying Tem)

[Vecna]

Temasek's role is at least theoretically possible. The wiki suggests that the GM could answer, "I don't know" to complex, non-objectively-verifiable questions. But I take the point that it would allow for a mass claim situation that could procedurally solve the game, and is therefore not likely to have been included.

I think the fact that damo, Vecna and BunnyGo are all trying to turn this into suspicion against bozo and xorxes is ridiculous. It smacks of scum theatre to me.

Bozo is being coy. But presumably Bozo scum implies Xorxes scum.

Might be worth a reread with bozo/Xorxes/Demon/Sarah-Tem in mind.

im not sure Tem has the knowledge required to know of the online mafia role myth that is the lie detector

This must be a fakeclaim, no? Or the scum information gathering role?

This role is way too powerful to exist for town in any meaningful game. It is by definition a way stronger cop since it can create ABSOLUTE innocents or guilties that cannot be fucked with in any way. Get people to state their alignment, check it, boom. And thats the absolute worst possible use you could come up with.

If you get people to make certain statements, it can even clear or guilty multiple people at once

##vote Temasek

I'm kinda with you there. Even if it turns up that Temasek says "squigs is lying"or "squigs is telling truth" and is correct, it's still more likely Temasek is scum.

Now that I stop and think...this is the PERFECT fake claim for scum. Of course someone like Xorxes will suggest using it as a cop scan, and scum can do that.

Considering that so far, it seems to be consensus that this role would be gamebreaking, I think it's patently obvious that scum!xorxes would not endorse such a harebrained plan.

We need to be a little cautious here. As I said before, I honestly think the game is quite narrow now and is close to being solved, and scum are going to be trying to bus or sow confusion in order to push through. I do think that Tem is scum because we already have two investigatives who can more or less directly ID scum, even if there are a few caveats. But it's extra suspicious to me that the three people most interested in commenting on Tem's claim are three people who are very possibly scum, and they are trying to lead the thought process onto some of our towniest players.

Im not trying to turn this into that type of suspicion at all.

Notice how a few pages ago I even had to ask what the reason for the mechanical clear on Bozo was.

I have a few minor reasons to suspect Xorxes -could- be scum, but as I stated earlier theres plenty of stuff to townread him over as well. For now Im just going to wait and see what happens tonight. We have what feels like a near-guaranteed scum to lynch today, so I really do not see how you misrep me and focus on that while there is a far more important thing to discuss here?

[Vecna]

^ scratch the "not focusing on tem part", clearly I shouldve finished reading the post before typing that.

[Jamiet99uk]

I am to the best of my knowledge not scum.

Chaqa, please explain this super-hedgy statement?

What scenario could exist, where you would not know your own alignment?

[Vecna]

In the midst of this confusion... I think keeping the Squigs wagon, and ensuring there is no secondary wagon, is actually probably still a good strategy.

Squiggs seemed really scummy before this wagon, and now there is some bananas stuff going on. Best to trust our "yesterday selves" I think.

Also to continue: Maybe some of those people that are suspected of being scum actually know their own role pm, and thus have to look outside of that group for other people that are obviously fooling nearly everyone.

Also, thoughts/comments about my earlier posts stating that Tem being scum likely means that Squigs is town? Because you dont respond to that, while that is actually quite the important piece to consider here.

[Jamiet99uk]

Having everyone vote for Squigs is a mitigation against that event, because there isn't a second wagon that would be put into the lead by the suicide explosion.

If Squigs is scum suicide bomber then 1 minute before EOD his teammates switch to the same townsperson and then Squigs detonated. Your system fails.

Sure, and then they would be outed as scum. If that happens and scum are stupid enough to do this, wonderful, town wins.

[Vecna]

While at the same time my role was designed in such way that it DID get "screwed over" by the lightning rod.

Also to screw over town with the given of how many visiting roles we have compared to scum. Also to apparently end up being recruited by the 3p if ever visited by it.

Mine has been specifically screwed TWICE by the jailor. The jailor/LR combo screwed me big, but it was actually a bit clever. Mine is a bit OP if allowed to operate freely N1. Was unfortunate I didn't get to go N3.

I still don't get how town has an alignment cop AND an any phase better than alignment cop.

Like, why didn't Sarah claim "Everyone please post 'I am Town'" day 1? We could have WON by day X with so much protective firepower for her.

Well, the obvious answer to that is she is clueless and the knowledge of this much protective power was completely unknown.

Doing that approach likely wouldve yielded a very early death if it were in fact a town lie detector.

[Jamiet99uk]

I'm very confused. You seem to be saying ALL of us on the suicide bomber would die. Other people said it would be just one of us on the suicide bomber.

Now i'm confused! I was giving scum a way out of the all vote Squigs situation such that thet had an assured 2nd wagon kill but thereby outing themselves. Anyway redundant now.

Does somebody other than Chaqa see how Squigs being a suicide bomber makes sense given their claim of being vengeful. Is town vengeful a common fakeclaim for a suicide bomber?

Suicide bomber is not a common role so there's no real answer to that question. I've played in over 20 games and I don't think any of them included a Suicide Bomber.

[summit_fever]

Vecna:

Either that or we need to find a proper way to confirm my alignment here, but with the modified flavour on the cop scans, thats probably not happening.

What did you mean by modified flavour?

[Jamiet99uk]

Vecna is making a very powerful statement here.

What if I make something like following statement and the role checks it:

On day 2 rdr knew that food was aware that Vecna was unaware of Xorxes' knowledge of Jamie's role.

What does that return?

The role sounds nonsense.

Pretty sure Tem is lying and presumably scum.

Damo doesn't understand how a Lie Detector works. Noted.

Damo, your statement would only give the Lie Detector a clear answer if you had good reason to believe all of the elements of your claim (which might return "true") or if you were consciously lying about one or more of them ("lie").

It's not a role which actually grants the player or the GM the power of clairvoyance. It can just verify whether a player was lying, or not, when they made a particular statement.

[Vecna]

WhaaAaaatT
Damn when do we figure out what he was...

Just quoting this N1 post

Seems to implicate pretty strongly Sarah did, in fact, NOT know that Donny was the tracker

[Vecna]

You don't think it's a good idea?

I think its dangerous and I would generally consider you more thought out.

Why do u think assuming he's scum is dangerous.

More to back up that assumption

[Jamiet99uk]

@Temasek:

Please can you explain your attempt to use the Lie Detector power on a statement by Rdrivera? Which statement was it?

[Vecna]

Vecna:

Either that or we need to find a proper way to confirm my alignment here, but with the modified flavour on the cop scans, thats probably not happening.

What did you mean by modified flavour?

Read DemonRHK's role pm when he flipped.

It specifically had a section that stated something like:

"you will scan as guilty to investigatives, unless modified"

[Vecna]

Guys, another suspicion/tinfoil

What if SarahK is in fact a scum lie detector that can be used only on role claims?

And that is where xorxes get the Rdrivera information.

Like, the Temasek claim here is really weird. Why come up with those 2 examples of stuff that he did get results on? It seems so random? Maybe its scum truthtelling that wasnt properly instructed. Because those result claims sure were mightily weird and specific.

Something to absolutely keep in mind if he flips scum lie detector (which I doubt, but at least the lie detector is a lot less powerfull for scum, since they already know nearly everyones alignment anyway. Still leaves the "lot of work for the GM thing that works against it ofcourse, but scum would likely just use it to verify roleclaims to know who is lying and who is a priority to kill asap).

[Jamiet99uk]

Vecna:

Either that or we need to find a proper way to confirm my alignment here, but with the modified flavour on the cop scans, thats probably not happening.

What did you mean by modified flavour?

Read DemonRHK's role pm when he flipped.

It specifically had a section that stated something like:

"you will scan as guilty to investigatives, unless modified"

I wouldn't describe that as "flavour", Vecna my lad.

[Vecna]

Well that is what I was talking about jamiet, and thats why I clarified when someone was confused about my meaning.

But thank you for reminding me some more that it was unclear what I meant. What would we ever do without your astute observations

[Vecna]

i do feel its not really in the spirit of jamiet to be pedantic when youre not the first to notice the mistake though.

Be more sharp. Be that voice of clarity we all so desperately need