M55: The Last Party - Game Thread

[Nephthys]

you never followed up on my "being unkillable" and it mismatching with the inquisitor role pm xorxes.

You've been making some very sharp observations this game, and overall your play is pretty towny, but the followup on certain things has me wondering. As does the big mystery of the Rdrivera reveal. As was the way you were hounding EMC day2, while now you've flipped it around to me being likely scum in the way I pushed donny.

I still really cannot fathom a role that you could have that caught him and that also works together with a towncop summit and all the other investigative shit we had.

How were scum ever supposed to win this if they hadnt gotten lucky in the bus driver dying N2 with so many investigatives on town?

There could very well be 4 more scum, not just 3.

So you reckon at game start there were a possible 7 non-town in a 2(?1) player game?

Thats ridiculous

[xorxes]

[*]Every role has an action. It may be triggered or player initiated and it may or may not target/visit players.

Because also, vanilla godfathers or ninja's are not a thing. Maybe they have gf/ninja's with extra abilities tacked on top, but so far that does not seem how any roles are designed.

Id expect the scum team would need to be something like this:

doctor
Super high powered JOAT
Lawyer or strongman, maybe both? (limited shots most likely)
Jailkeeper is a great fit, independant of read on Neph
Information gathering role on town roles

But even that feels like theyd have a hard time winning this, and thats already assuming they have 5 players

Lawyer, or a lawyer-like ability as part of a JOAT, is very likely given that both the rules and RHK's role contemplate it. I doubt there's a Strongman, at least nothing in the rules suggests it, but maybe as part of a JOAT. An information gathering role is possible (I have an idea, but won't share now). And the missing roleblocker is indeed a mystery.

[Vecna]

That reminds me, Squigs is probably a good wagon with decent scum equity regardless.

The way he went on day1 "Huh Vecna, this secretary slip you picked up on is really good" and then went on to let me be the one to push it...

I wasn't playing day 1...

No but your slot was definately doing things on day1. Not many things, but some.

[BunnyGo]

I just realized Xorxes' couldve also just caught Rdrivera because the BP claim is in direct contradiction with the game rules lol

BP?

[Vecna]

you never followed up on my "being unkillable" and it mismatching with the inquisitor role pm xorxes.

You've been making some very sharp observations this game, and overall your play is pretty towny, but the followup on certain things has me wondering. As does the big mystery of the Rdrivera reveal. As was the way you were hounding EMC day2, while now you've flipped it around to me being likely scum in the way I pushed donny.

I still really cannot fathom a role that you could have that caught him and that also works together with a towncop summit and all the other investigative shit we had.

How were scum ever supposed to win this if they hadnt gotten lucky in the bus driver dying N2 with so many investigatives on town?

There could very well be 4 more scum, not just 3.

So you reckon at game start there were a possible 7 non-town in a 2(?1) player game?

Thats ridiculous

Given that EMC was likely to join the town ranks, and only would go scum in case of a day1 lynch? Given that one night all NK's would not happen due to the LR? And the high number of protectives? #rd party being able to shoot scum?

Completely fine setup wise with those numbers id say

[Vecna]

[*]Every role has an action. It may be triggered or player initiated and it may or may not target/visit players.

Because also, vanilla godfathers or ninja's are not a thing. Maybe they have gf/ninja's with extra abilities tacked on top, but so far that does not seem how any roles are designed.

Id expect the scum team would need to be something like this:

doctor
Super high powered JOAT
Lawyer or strongman, maybe both? (limited shots most likely)
Jailkeeper is a great fit, independant of read on Neph
Information gathering role on town roles

But even that feels like theyd have a hard time winning this, and thats already assuming they have 5 players

Lawyer, or a lawyer-like ability as part of a JOAT, is very likely given that both the rules and RHK's role contemplate it. I doubt there's a Strongman, at least nothing in the rules suggests it, but maybe as part of a JOAT. An information gathering role is possible (I have an idea, but won't share now). And the missing roleblocker is indeed a mystery.

I dont think too much required utility wouldve been tacked on a JOAT. Limiting all the usefull stuff to only 1 / night would hamper them too much.

Most of the "getting NK's through shit" sure

I couldve sworn I read something somewhere that suggested saves might not always work? Maybe my brain is confusing shit since im playing multiple mafia games at the same time.

[xorxes]

you never followed up on my "being unkillable" and it mismatching with the inquisitor role pm xorxes.

You've been making some very sharp observations this game, and overall your play is pretty towny, but the followup on certain things has me wondering. As does the big mystery of the Rdrivera reveal. As was the way you were hounding EMC day2, while now you've flipped it around to me being likely scum in the way I pushed donny.

I still really cannot fathom a role that you could have that caught him and that also works together with a towncop summit and all the other investigative shit we had.

How were scum ever supposed to win this if they hadnt gotten lucky in the bus driver dying N2 with so many investigatives on town?

There could very well be 4 more scum, not just 3.

So you reckon at game start there were a possible 7 non-town in a 2(?1) player game?

Thats ridiculous

I think the way this game should be considered is as a 20-player setup where the scummiest player (whatever their alignment) is removed D1 and replaced with someone else, and then the game starts at night.

[Jamiet99uk]

I just realized Xorxes' couldve also just caught Rdrivera because the BP claim is in direct contradiction with the game rules lol

BP?

Bightening Prod?
No, no..... Baxi Priver…?
No wait, what was it Rdrivera claimed.....?

Bullet Proof, that's it.

[bozotheclown]

I am going to repeat myself for the benefit of those with short attention spans.

The best plan today is for everyone to vote for Squigs, whether you believe his claim or not. Here's the logic:

If he is telling the truth:

1. We should lynch him, because his power is only activated upon his lynch, and:
2. Everyone must be on his wagon, so that he can use his shot effectively.

If he is lying:

1. Then he is scum and should be lynched anyway, but:
2. Everyone must be on his wagon, to insure against the possibility he is a Suicide Bomber.

If you are not voting for Squigs the only reasonable conclusion is that you want to ensure that if he is Vengeful, you are safe from his shot. That is scum-indicative thinking.

How does everyone on his wagon protect against him if he is a Suicide Bomber, can they typically only kill from their wagon? I am more concerned Squigs could be a mafia Vengeful, the Suicide Bomber idea is just speculation.

[Vecna]

[*]Every role has an action. It may be triggered or player initiated and it may or may not target/visit players.

Because also, vanilla godfathers or ninja's are not a thing. Maybe they have gf/ninja's with extra abilities tacked on top, but so far that does not seem how any roles are designed.

Id expect the scum team would need to be something like this:

doctor
Super high powered JOAT
Lawyer or strongman, maybe both? (limited shots most likely)
Jailkeeper is a great fit, independant of read on Neph
Information gathering role on town roles

But even that feels like theyd have a hard time winning this, and thats already assuming they have 5 players

Lawyer, or a lawyer-like ability as part of a JOAT, is very likely given that both the rules and RHK's role contemplate it. I doubt there's a Strongman, at least nothing in the rules suggests it, but maybe as part of a JOAT. An information gathering role is possible (I have an idea, but won't share now). And the missing roleblocker is indeed a mystery.

Is your suspicion for the information gathering something that makes me a fool for suspecting it could very well be chaqa? Putting this suspicion to rest would seriously help in the PoE department.

He's been having so many logical loops this game on certain things.

-insisting he's such an important NK target
-insisting neighbourizer couldnt possibly be a scumrole, and that it has no use for them (the fact it invites during the day even gives it extra scum utility imo)
-the dichotomy between "were killing donny today no questions asked" and his "lets test his tracker thing" (ignoring scum tracker possibility)
-forgetting he was getting chipotle (maybe voided due to scum, meaning he already knew he wasnt getting it and thus not rejoicing)
-The thing with 3rd parties and not killing RHK
-Not realizing NL might leave us with too little days to finish off all scum
-Most importantly: He's not pissing anyone off in a major way. He's usually so unapologetically direct and condescending. This feels as his scummy-scum play.

Turned out to be more of a case why i think he's potentially scum, but the slot is really a mystery to me, and he has had such a large grasp on this game

[Jamiet99uk]

I am going to repeat myself for the benefit of those with short attention spans.

The best plan today is for everyone to vote for Squigs, whether you believe his claim or not. Here's the logic:

If he is telling the truth:

1. We should lynch him, because his power is only activated upon his lynch, and:
2. Everyone must be on his wagon, so that he can use his shot effectively.

If he is lying:

1. Then he is scum and should be lynched anyway, but:
2. Everyone must be on his wagon, to insure against the possibility he is a Suicide Bomber.

If you are not voting for Squigs the only reasonable conclusion is that you want to ensure that if he is Vengeful, you are safe from his shot. That is scum-indicative thinking.

How does everyone on his wagon protect against him if he is a Suicide Bomber, can they typically only kill from their wagon? I am more concerned Squigs could be a mafia Vengeful, the Suicide Bomber idea is just speculation.

Good evening, Bozo. You're missing the point so allow me to explain it.

Suicide Bomber is a role that can blow themselves up, during the Day. In doing so they die, and also kill a target of their choice. It's usually a Mafia role and generally cannot be protected against.

Chaqa's theory was that Scum Squigs could be fake-claiming Vengeful in an attempt to make himself a large lead wagon, but with some manipulation or luck hopefully making some poor townie the second-placed wagon.

With that arrangement coming to fruition, he would in theory wait until a few minutes before EoD, and then *BOOM*, he detonates himself, also kills his Town target, and not only that, suddenly the second-placed wagon is propelled into the lead, because all the votes on the Suicide Bomber would no longer be valid due to his death. Day would end before enough people had a chance to cast a new vote, and some poor Town schmuck gets lynched too. So the death of the Suicide Bomber eliminates not just one townie, but two.

Having everyone vote for Squigs is a mitigation against that event, because there isn't a second wagon that would be put into the lead by the suicide explosion.

[BunnyGo]

I am going to repeat myself for the benefit of those with short attention spans.

The best plan today is for everyone to vote for Squigs, whether you believe his claim or not. Here's the logic:

If he is telling the truth:

1. We should lynch him, because his power is only activated upon his lynch, and:
2. Everyone must be on his wagon, so that he can use his shot effectively.

If he is lying:

1. Then he is scum and should be lynched anyway, but:
2. Everyone must be on his wagon, to insure against the possibility he is a Suicide Bomber.

If you are not voting for Squigs the only reasonable conclusion is that you want to ensure that if he is Vengeful, you are safe from his shot. That is scum-indicative thinking.

How does everyone on his wagon protect against him if he is a Suicide Bomber, can they typically only kill from their wagon? I am more concerned Squigs could be a mafia Vengeful, the Suicide Bomber idea is just speculation.

Good evening, Bozo. You're missing the point so allow me to explain it.

Suicide Bomber is a role that can blow themselves up, during the Day. In doing so they die, and also kill a target of their choice. It's usually a Mafia role and generally cannot be protected against.

Chaqa's theory was that Scum Squigs could be fake-claiming Vengeful in an attempt to make himself a large lead wagon, but with some manipulation or luck hopefully making some poor townie the second-placed wagon.

With that arrangement coming to fruition, he would in theory wait until a few minutes before EoD, and then *BOOM*, he detonates himself, also kills his Town target, and not only that, suddenly the second-placed wagon is propelled into the lead, because all the votes on the Suicide Bomber would no longer be valid due to his death. Day would end before enough people had a chance to cast a new vote, and some poor Town schmuck gets lynched too. So the death of the Suicide Bomber eliminates not just one townie, but two.

Having everyone vote for Squigs is a mitigation against that event, because there isn't a second wagon that would be put into the lead by the suicide explosion.

Would everyone be in violation of ending with a vote?

[bozotheclown]

I am going to repeat myself for the benefit of those with short attention spans.

The best plan today is for everyone to vote for Squigs, whether you believe his claim or not. Here's the logic:

If he is telling the truth:

1. We should lynch him, because his power is only activated upon his lynch, and:
2. Everyone must be on his wagon, so that he can use his shot effectively.

If he is lying:

1. Then he is scum and should be lynched anyway, but:
2. Everyone must be on his wagon, to insure against the possibility he is a Suicide Bomber.

If you are not voting for Squigs the only reasonable conclusion is that you want to ensure that if he is Vengeful, you are safe from his shot. That is scum-indicative thinking.

How does everyone on his wagon protect against him if he is a Suicide Bomber, can they typically only kill from their wagon? I am more concerned Squigs could be a mafia Vengeful, the Suicide Bomber idea is just speculation.

Good evening, Bozo. You're missing the point so allow me to explain it.

Suicide Bomber is a role that can blow themselves up, during the Day. In doing so they die, and also kill a target of their choice. It's usually a Mafia role and generally cannot be protected against.

Chaqa's theory was that Scum Squigs could be fake-claiming Vengeful in an attempt to make himself a large lead wagon, but with some manipulation or luck hopefully making some poor townie the second-placed wagon.

With that arrangement coming to fruition, he would in theory wait until a few minutes before EoD, and then *BOOM*, he detonates himself, also kills his Town target, and not only that, suddenly the second-placed wagon is propelled into the lead, because all the votes on the Suicide Bomber would no longer be valid due to his death. Day would end before enough people had a chance to cast a new vote, and some poor Town schmuck gets lynched too. So the death of the Suicide Bomber eliminates not just one townie, but two.

Having everyone vote for Squigs is a mitigation against that event, because there isn't a second wagon that would be put into the lead by the suicide explosion.

Thanks, I think I understand that all now, but we could make the player we want Squigs to take out if he is town Vengeful the second wagon. If everyone was on Squigs, Squigs could change his vote a town and blow up right before EOD if he is a Suicide Bonber.

[BunnyGo]

How does everyone on his wagon protect against him if he is a Suicide Bomber, can they typically only kill from their wagon? I am more concerned Squigs could be a mafia Vengeful, the Suicide Bomber idea is just speculation.

Good evening, Bozo. You're missing the point so allow me to explain it.

Suicide Bomber is a role that can blow themselves up, during the Day. In doing so they die, and also kill a target of their choice. It's usually a Mafia role and generally cannot be protected against.

Chaqa's theory was that Scum Squigs could be fake-claiming Vengeful in an attempt to make himself a large lead wagon, but with some manipulation or luck hopefully making some poor townie the second-placed wagon.

With that arrangement coming to fruition, he would in theory wait until a few minutes before EoD, and then *BOOM*, he detonates himself, also kills his Town target, and not only that, suddenly the second-placed wagon is propelled into the lead, because all the votes on the Suicide Bomber would no longer be valid due to his death. Day would end before enough people had a chance to cast a new vote, and some poor Town schmuck gets lynched too. So the death of the Suicide Bomber eliminates not just one townie, but two.

Having everyone vote for Squigs is a mitigation against that event, because there isn't a second wagon that would be put into the lead by the suicide explosion.

Thanks, I think I understand that all now, but we could make the player we want Squigs to take out if he is town Vengeful the second wagon. If everyone was on Squigs, Squigs could change his vote a town and blow up right before EOD if he is a Suicide Bonber.

If we’re wrong about that person, we lose two town...

[xorxes]

Is your suspicion for the information gathering something that makes me a fool for suspecting it could very well be chaqa? Putting this suspicion to rest would seriously help in the PoE department.

He's been having so many logical loops this game on certain things.

-insisting he's such an important NK target
-insisting neighbourizer couldnt possibly be a scumrole, and that it has no use for them (the fact it invites during the day even gives it extra scum utility imo)
-the dichotomy between "were killing donny today no questions asked" and his "lets test his tracker thing" (ignoring scum tracker possibility)
-forgetting he was getting chipotle (maybe voided due to scum, meaning he already knew he wasnt getting it and thus not rejoicing)
-The thing with 3rd parties and not killing RHK
-Not realizing NL might leave us with too little days to finish off all scum
-Most importantly: He's not pissing anyone off in a major way. He's usually so unapologetically direct and condescending. This feels as his scummy-scum play.

Turned out to be more of a case why i think he's potentially scum, but the slot is really a mystery to me, and he has had such a large grasp on this game

Chaqa is one of my top townreads, not so much because his role makes most sense as a town role, but because of the way he played it. He definitely thinks the neighbourhood is more important than it really is and he overestimates the desire that scum may have to kill him.

[Jamiet99uk]

Would everyone be in violation of ending with a vote?

No.

Are you new here?

Have you never been in a game where someone has died during the day?

The standard rule is that if you have cast a valid vote during the day, and the person you voted for *dies* before EoD, you are still deemed to have satisfied the voting requirements. You may vote again if you wish, but are not obligated to.

[Jamiet99uk]

How does everyone on his wagon protect against him if he is a Suicide Bomber, can they typically only kill from their wagon? I am more concerned Squigs could be a mafia Vengeful, the Suicide Bomber idea is just speculation.

Good evening, Bozo. You're missing the point so allow me to explain it.

Suicide Bomber is a role that can blow themselves up, during the Day. In doing so they die, and also kill a target of their choice. It's usually a Mafia role and generally cannot be protected against.

Chaqa's theory was that Scum Squigs could be fake-claiming Vengeful in an attempt to make himself a large lead wagon, but with some manipulation or luck hopefully making some poor townie the second-placed wagon.

With that arrangement coming to fruition, he would in theory wait until a few minutes before EoD, and then *BOOM*, he detonates himself, also kills his Town target, and not only that, suddenly the second-placed wagon is propelled into the lead, because all the votes on the Suicide Bomber would no longer be valid due to his death. Day would end before enough people had a chance to cast a new vote, and some poor Town schmuck gets lynched too. So the death of the Suicide Bomber eliminates not just one townie, but two.

Having everyone vote for Squigs is a mitigation against that event, because there isn't a second wagon that would be put into the lead by the suicide explosion.

Thanks, I think I understand that all now, but we could make the player we want Squigs to take out if he is town Vengeful the second wagon. If everyone was on Squigs, Squigs could change his vote a town and blow up right before EOD if he is a Suicide Bonber.

Incorrect.

His vote would not be counted because he would be dead when EoD was processed.

The votes of dead people aren't counted. This is webDip, not Florida.

[xorxes]

I would say it is very very unlikely that mafia have a suicide bomber, given discussion with Vecna. But they probably do have some extra killing ability, which could be Vecna's veteran, a JOAT gun (maybe used the night emc and flash died), or something like that.

[Jamiet99uk]

I would say it is very very unlikely that mafia have a suicide bomber, given discussion with Vecna. But they probably do have some extra killing ability, which could be Vecna's veteran, a JOAT gun (maybe used the night emc and flash died), or something like that.

I agree. The Suicide Bomber talk is only in response to Chaqa going on about it. I very much think it's a secondary consideration.

My main intentions, in calling for everybody to vote Squigs, is firstly, to make sure the full card is available when he takes his revenge, and secondly, to see if anyone is so scared of being on the block when (if) that happens, that they refuse to vote him.

[BunnyGo]

Would everyone be in violation of ending with a vote?

No.

Are you new here?

Not really.

Have you never been in a game where someone has died during the day?

Not close to EOD.

The standard rule is that if you have cast a valid vote during the day, and the person you voted for *dies* before EoD, you are still deemed to have satisfied the voting requirements. You may vote again if you wish, but are not obligated to.

Cool.