M55: The Last Party - Game Thread

[bozotheclown]

If rivera targeted one of them, I think it would be flash, who was more likely to be protected than emc. So Mafia then targeted emc.

And neither of them would want to target summit because flash might be watching.

True, but if the mafia were redirecting summit, you would think they would want to get rid of the watcher first. Maybe the mafia did have a gun and targeted both, in which rdrivera could have duplicated the flash kill.

I meant redirecting brainbomb.

[Jamiet99uk]

Damo could also be a godfather.

But anyway I cede your point that I couldve been trying to draw a lawyer plus scan to get innocent out of the gate. Risking death or any other number of effects. Fine.

Now is that the ONLY reason you scumlean me?

No. The other reason is purely one of setup balance. Town with a Watcher and Lightning Rod? That's super powerful if used correctly.

Can you talk us through exactly why you decided to trigger your power when you did, with no warning you were going to do so?

Already did.

Glad I was right in my assessment that you're not even reading.

There are nearly 400 pages. I'm doing my best but I actually have a job and a life despite the lockdown.

Could you point me to the post?

[Jamiet99uk]

Foodcoats, talk me through lynching damo who was just scanned inno? If you think damo is town oracle, then answer me this: why wouldn't damo have claimed his role yet? Its certainly optimal for town to know about an oracle earlier rather than later.

Since Temasek is off wagon right now, I've got Bunny as my current target.

Do you have to input your target whilst you are still alive? You don't get to order it during the Night phase after your lynch?

[Chaqa]

@xorx:

305 - 3
356 - 1
349 - 4
357 - 7

[foodcoats]

No. The other reason is purely one of setup balance. Town with a Watcher and Lightning Rod? That's super powerful if used correctly.

Can you talk us through exactly why you decided to trigger your power when you did, with no warning you were going to do so?

Already did.

Glad I was right in my assessment that you're not even reading.

There are nearly 400 pages. I'm doing my best but I actually have a job and a life despite the lockdown.

Could you point me to the post?

Lol no I don't want to find it either.

I thought it would get too complicated to actually end up firing it later - there'd be a lot of roles to think through the effects of, and if I totally boned something up for town that would suck - and I figured either I would block the NK, or I would draw the NK to myself. Being a weaker town player and having a one-shot ability, I thought drawing the NK to me was not really a bad thing anyway.

[foodcoats]

And sorry Jamie I wasn't insinuating mafia should be your life, I was just annoyed at you for scumreading me.

[foodcoats]

With the suicide bomber thing being a possibility, should we not make sure our secondary wagon is not "no lynch?"

##VOTE Temasek

I'll move back if everyone thinks that's best but I think having two possible wagons is a good thing... and both should be lynch targets. I do not get no lynching... and also xorxes and Summit should be on Tem not Squigs.

[Vecna]

Do you know what would have happened if rivera had targeted you? Would you be dead, or does your role explicitly say that you can't be killed when you were using your charges?

It explicitely says I cannot be killed and that whoever targets me dies before their action can have any effect whatsoever

Given your role PM and rivera's role PM, how would you adjudicate if rivera targeted you?

You do see that there's something contradictory or unsatisfying there, don't you?

This is actually a good question/comment. My role pm literally states that my ability Ensures that I am safe because I fire first

I was wondering the same thing earlier about what wouldve happened if a mafia with their doc on them would try to kill me, because both type of situations would appear to still go through using conventional wisdom.

the mix of flavour and mechanical is intermixed a bit too much for me to give you a definitive answer, but ill ask the gm

[Nephthys]

Can anyone explain to me how Vecna and bozo can both be town here, it seems massively unlikely

Again I pull this up

@Summit
@Xorx
@Chaqa

Please read this and give me any indication that Vecna is likely to be town here and that both bozo and summit are not town. I'm walking down this tunnel and if its stupid and yall don't pull me out soon then...

I know this wasn't @me, but can you explain? I don't see it.

Please, I only @ people cause no one has responded the last two times I've pulled it up.

RHK is conf scum.

This post to me is him saying "I will outlive Vecna, he is going to die, how can I make the most out of this?" So what does he do, he makes connections to Vecna with townies.

Vecna flips scum (shock)

RHK goes, "Look what I posted earlier, bozo or summit should be the next lynch"

It's something that I've seen scum employ many times and something that I've done as scum

[Vecna]

Do you know what would have happened if rivera had targeted you? Would you be dead, or does your role explicitly say that you can't be killed when you were using your charges?

It explicitely says I cannot be killed and that whoever targets me dies before their action can have any effect whatsoever

Given your role PM and rivera's role PM, how would you adjudicate if rivera targeted you?

You do see that there's something contradictory or unsatisfying there, don't you?

But as a question to you; did you read my earlier logic regarding the redirector and how it was used to redirect brainbomb to me?

Do you feel like my logic there is flawed, or are you worried that im fakeclaiming my role and I have some other killing ability of which I knew beforehand what the flavour would be?

[foodcoats]

It explicitely says I cannot be killed and that whoever targets me dies before their action can have any effect whatsoever

Given your role PM and rivera's role PM, how would you adjudicate if rivera targeted you?

You do see that there's something contradictory or unsatisfying there, don't you?

This is actually a good question/comment. My role pm literally states that my ability Ensures that I am safe because I fire first

I was wondering the same thing earlier about what wouldve happened if a mafia with their doc on them would try to kill me, because both type of situations would appear to still go through using conventional wisdom.

the mix of flavour and mechanical is intermixed a bit too much for me to give you a definitive answer, but ill ask the gm

It's interesting because the standard way a PGO works, according to the wiki, is that a double-kill can result - the killer kills the PGO but the PGO kills them back.

I was wondering if Vecna was maybe faking us out and is actually a scum-Vigilante - the "lost a charge" thing seems weird - but I don't think Vecna would've claimed if that was his real role.

[foodcoats]

As in it seems like he'd only lose a bullet if he was active, as opposed to a reactive defensive mine or whatever.

[Chaqa]

With the suicide bomber thing being a possibility, should we not make sure our secondary wagon is not "no lynch?"

##VOTE Temasek

I'll move back if everyone thinks that's best but I think having two possible wagons is a good thing... and both should be lynch targets. I do not get no lynching... and also xorxes and Summit should be on Tem not Squigs.

Food - I think we should leave no-lynch as the second wagon until we get a claim from Temasek.

[Vecna]

Ill tell you this though: since its semi-confirmed the scum had a redirector, and my role is confirmed as well, the fact you guys dont treat me as a townclear for mechanical reasons is baffling.

If I was scum with that redirecting role: Why not redirect people to target me while I was using that ability? An extra kill that couldnt be stopped by anything? Sounds pretty usefull.

If scum indeed have a way to mess with the cop results, why use the redirector in such a weak way just to point brainbomb in the other direction? (Hint: its because they believed I was bluffing and they wanted me to kill brainbomb). If I was scum with a redirector, itd have been a lot better to redirect summit to me instead and create a fake townclear.

summit was redirect to you, or driven with you.

Driver wouldve had to target me. Scum were clearly scared and tried to get me to kill brainbomb.

It was a redirector. Ofcourse, you do not know this as a fact, but Im fairly certain they fell for me reverse psychology trap when I claimed outright that I was out of charges when asked.

Also, scum wouldve had to guess 100% correctly that brain was going to target summit for a bus driver to get the desired result (which might not have been hard)

[xorxes]

@xorx:

305 - 3
356 - 1
349 - 4
357 - 7

356 - 9
356 - 6
354 - 4
337 - 4
343 - 6
343 - 7
323 - 1
262 - 8
355 - 5
178 - 2
160 - 4
173 - 7

[Nephthys]

Also yeah we shouldn’t shoot Vecna lol, Squigs should shoot Tem unless his claim makes sense.

@xorx: arent Tem and Bozo the only ones possibly responsible for chipotle code?

You can only request this if you find a way to help me salvage my slot mister.

You should be very capable to see whatll happen to me on later days otherwise, and people are not going to look at logic when they can just look at me tunneling wrongly on town.

I mean providing a read list like I asked ~10 pages ago would be nice.

Doing something other than tinfoil?

[Nephthys]

Why must Neph be scum?

I was going to ask that.

Why must Neph be scum, if you are, Foodcoat?

So that I would know I would be jailed, and not investigateable. If I was scum and Neph was town, LRing would call ALL active investigations onto me. On N1. Lol.

This is actually a rather decent post. If there is no mafia RB then scum!food activating the LR would be rather risky

hmm.

[Jamiet99uk]

With the suicide bomber thing being a possibility, should we not make sure our secondary wagon is not "no lynch?"

##VOTE Temasek

I'll move back if everyone thinks that's best but I think having two possible wagons is a good thing... and both should be lynch targets. I do not get no lynching... and also xorxes and Summit should be on Tem not Squigs.

If there is no secondary wagon at all, then the triggering of the Suicide Bomber cannot cause the secondary wagon to be mislynched, because there isn't one.

If Squigs is telling the truth about his role, you need to be on his wagon so that you are among his vengeful shot choices.

I note that Vecna, Chaqa, and now Foodcoats are deeply afraid of being shot.

[Vecna]

summit was redirect to you, or driven with you.

This isn't the first time Vecna has indicated he thought it was brainbomb instead of summit who was redirected, I am not sure if this is a real town slip or a fake town slip that Vecna wanted to make sure someone noticed.

Is there a role that redirects the executor of the action rather than the target? So "force brain to target Vecna" instead of "redirect anyone who targets summit onto Vecna"?

Thats what a redirector does no? Im not sure if the naming convention is correct, but I -think- I remember roles with that effect being used before on webdip.

Regardless, generally speaking in mafia terms its not an effect that is used very often. Id say that closed role madness setups can also just use roles designed or altered by the gm's though. Most roles here appear to follow convention, but the JOAT for example was quite a bit more advanced that im used to.

[xorxes]

With the suicide bomber thing being a possibility, should we not make sure our secondary wagon is not "no lynch?"

##VOTE Temasek

I'll move back if everyone thinks that's best but I think having two possible wagons is a good thing... and both should be lynch targets. I do not get no lynching... and also xorxes and Summit should be on Tem not Squigs.

If Squigs is town he won't kill us. If he is scum, he is almost certainly not Vengeful with the restriction he claims.