M55: The Last Party - Game Thread

[brainbomb]

in fact scum may not have a roleblocker. it might just be a scum jailor.

[Vecna]

well I reread it xorxes, but I still dont understand or completely disagree with your assesment.

Him outing his stuff that quickly, then jumping to massclaim straight after, and now being here and excusing his play because he's trying to protect his role just reads like scum all around.

And i can make that statement completely independent of food's alignment.

[brainbomb]

I think I know what jamie is also

[Jamiet99uk]

most of you dont know what its like to dream
or to be omnipotent

Choose wisely. Try to imagine how Worcej's mind works.

[Jamiet99uk]

I think I know what jamie is also

Well please be quiet about that.

[xorxes]

is there a way to navigate to the daystart through the bot? seeing how there was no n1 death

Click on Day 2

[brainbomb]

I think I know what jamie is also

Well please be quiet about that.

Ok

[brainbomb]

most of you dont know what its like to dream
or to be omnipotent

Choose wisely. Try to imagine how Worcej's mind works.

Im trying to decide what helps us most. who should get what I got

[brainbomb]

lets just do it this way

who wants a frosty brainbomb surprise

[Vecna]

seriously considering changing my action to something more direct

[e.m.c^42]

lets just do it this way

who wants a frosty brainbomb surprise

If terribly fun absolutely.

[bozotheclown]

And then there's Bozo.

Bozo did at least list Bismarck as a scumread several times during D2. That's a point in his favour, I suppose.

But then there was this, 12 minutes before the deadline:



Moments after this, Bismarck did claim his role.

There was no reaction from Bozo, who kept his vote right there on Bismarck.

Hmm.

@Bozo: You called on Bismarck to claim. He did so. Why did you keep your vote on him?

Bismarck and emc were the only options at that point, and even though I think emc is likely town, I would have switched my vote to emc if I was sure Bismarck was the town JOAT. However, there were reasons to doubt Bismarck's claim. One, as Nephthys and Vecna pointed out, he could have been a mafia JOAT (you were the mafia JOAT in M1010). Also, earlier D2 Bismarck said this: "And I can confirm that I have a Town role on this island. Sure, a minor role, but a Town role nonetheless." It is now obvious he was downplaying his role to avoid being a NK target, but that was not as obvious when he claimed, it looked like he could have been claiming a strong role to avoid the lynch.

Why didn't you at least comment?

Why complete silence, no reaction at all, when someone you called upon to claim, has just claimed?

I preferred to lynch Bismarck over emc, and Bismarck was leading the vote.

[bozotheclown]

I have still not decided who to visit.

Bozo does not seem worried. Hmm.

Are you threatening to kill me again?

[bozotheclown]

And then there's Bozo.

Bozo did at least list Bismarck as a scumread several times during D2. That's a point in his favour, I suppose.

But then there was this, 12 minutes before the deadline:



Moments after this, Bismarck did claim his role.

There was no reaction from Bozo, who kept his vote right there on Bismarck.

Hmm.

@Bozo: You called on Bismarck to claim. He did so. Why did you keep your vote on him?

Bismarck and emc were the only options at that point, and even though I think emc is likely town, I would have switched my vote to emc if I was sure Bismarck was the town JOAT. However, there were reasons to doubt Bismarck's claim. One, as Nephthys and Vecna pointed out, he could have been a mafia JOAT (you were the mafia JOAT in M1010). Also, earlier D2 Bismarck said this: "And I can confirm that I have a Town role on this island. Sure, a minor role, but a Town role nonetheless." It is now obvious he was downplaying his role to avoid being a NK target, but that was not as obvious when he claimed, it looked like he could have been claiming a strong role to avoid the lynch.

Do you think emc is likely town based on his play or based on his role?

His claim seems believable, and I would not expect him to make the claim if he took over a scum role.

[bozotheclown]

I like the wagon analysis from summit. I think it's a very towny effort and for the most part I think it's accurate. This is something that stands out to me:

Bozo: Seemed more confident in claiming Bismarck as scum but waivered with 3 and half hours to go. "Less inclined to want to lynch BismarkAlive or Vecna based on their more recent posts" Jumped on the wagon with 13 minutes to go.

@bozo, what was it about Bismarck's later posts that made you less inclined to lynch him?

It was his responses to you where he referenced his role PM and speculated about the number of mafia that seemed to me he would be less likely to do as scum:

OK.

For me, this: "​There is one mafia faction, one town faction, and a 3P faction" would be a strange way to put it if the game started with more than one 3P faction. I guess pedantically you can say "there is a 3P faction" when there is actually more than one. I still don't think I'm being obtuse if I'm a bit uncomfortable with that.

It could also be that emc's role isn't meant to be it's own "faction" since his alignment (if he's being honest) is decided after the game starts but becomes one of mafia, town or 3p.

I don't think you're being obtuse, but I also don't think we're going to get anywhere with this.

When we got our Town roles, it clearly said we win when our faction wins. That means we try to eliminate BOTH Mafia and 3p, no matter how many factions that means in-game.

OK.

For me, this: "​There is one mafia faction, one town faction, and a 3P faction" would be a strange way to put it if the game started with more than one 3P faction. I guess pedantically you can say "there is a 3P faction" when there is actually more than one. I still don't think I'm being obtuse if I'm a bit uncomfortable with that.

It could also be that emc's role isn't meant to be it's own "faction" since his alignment (if he's being honest) is decided after the game starts but becomes one of mafia, town or 3p.

I don't think you're being obtuse, but I also don't think we're going to get anywhere with this.

I disagree, kgray. This is how I am thinking about this important discussion:
21 people so, what would be REASONABLE scum number? 5?
Then we have 3p which is another faction we have to get rid of. So let's assume total people Town have to get rid of is 6.
So, 15 Town, 1 3p, and 5 mafia.
Now, assume Donny is Tracker as he claimed (Town). He dies, EMC takes over that. I would posit that EMC was originally Town, since it would be unfair to the setup if mafia EMC could then become Town if Donny was Town. Not so unfair if scum Donny dies, since mafia would stay the same.
So if my numbers are correct, we now have 20 people split up as 14 Town, 5 mafia and a 3p.
This is important, because we have to have some notion of what numbers of enemies we as Town are dealing with.

[xorxes]

Do you think emc is likely town based on his play or based on his role?

His claim seems believable, and I would not expect him to make the claim if he took over a scum role.

Suppose Donny was Mafia Tracker, and emc was 3P Universal Backup as he claims. What do you expect he would tell Chaqa?

[kgray]

@bozo, what was it about Bismarck's later posts that made you less inclined to lynch him?

It was his responses to you where he referenced his role PM and speculated about the number of mafia that seemed to me he would be less likely to do as scum:

It could also be that emc's role isn't meant to be it's own "faction" since his alignment (if he's being honest) is decided after the game starts but becomes one of mafia, town or 3p.

I don't think you're being obtuse, but I also don't think we're going to get anywhere with this.

When we got our Town roles, it clearly said we win when our faction wins. That means we try to eliminate BOTH Mafia and 3p, no matter how many factions that means in-game.

It could also be that emc's role isn't meant to be it's own "faction" since his alignment (if he's being honest) is decided after the game starts but becomes one of mafia, town or 3p.

I don't think you're being obtuse, but I also don't think we're going to get anywhere with this.

I disagree, kgray. This is how I am thinking about this important discussion:
21 people so, what would be REASONABLE scum number? 5?
Then we have 3p which is another faction we have to get rid of. So let's assume total people Town have to get rid of is 6.
So, 15 Town, 1 3p, and 5 mafia.
Now, assume Donny is Tracker as he claimed (Town). He dies, EMC takes over that. I would posit that EMC was originally Town, since it would be unfair to the setup if mafia EMC could then become Town if Donny was Town. Not so unfair if scum Donny dies, since mafia would stay the same.
So if my numbers are correct, we now have 20 people split up as 14 Town, 5 mafia and a 3p.
This is important, because we have to have some notion of what numbers of enemies we as Town are dealing with.

Alright. I guess I just had the opposite reaction to his later posts, because they just increased my scumread of him. Specifically the part about Bismarck positing that emc was originally town... That stood out to me as a huge red flag that I still can't understand, even knowing now that Bismarck was indeed town.

[brainbomb]

emc, my ability cant help you right now.

[foodcoats]

Do you think emc is likely town based on his play or based on his role?

His claim seems believable, and I would not expect him to make the claim if he took over a scum role.

Suppose Donny was Mafia Tracker, and emc was 3P Universal Backup as he claims. What do you expect he would tell Chaqa?

You think worcej put in a mafia tracker?

[e.m.c^42]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... start=3950

This is pretty impressive.