M55: The Last Party - Game Thread

[xorxes]

Do you know about a 3rd party faction that emc is not a part of?

No, but a faction of one is not much of a faction, especially one that only lasts for one day.

Speaking with my former and future GM hat on, I don't agree with Xorxes' interpretation of the terminology here.

It's quite commonplace to describe any third party, even a lone third party, as a "faction", even if they are a faction of one.

To support the fact that this is common practice among GMs and setup designers, I refer you to the wiki entries for "Serial Killer" on both Mafiascum and MafiaUniverse, which refer to the Serial Killer's nightkill as a factional kill, even though the Serial Killer operates alone and has no team-mates.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ial_Killer

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/da ... l%20Killer

So according to your interpretation, if emc is telling the truth, there is no longer a 3P faction in play?

[Jamiet99uk]

No, but a faction of one is not much of a faction, especially one that only lasts for one day.

Speaking with my former and future GM hat on, I don't agree with Xorxes' interpretation of the terminology here.

It's quite commonplace to describe any third party, even a lone third party, as a "faction", even if they are a faction of one.

To support the fact that this is common practice among GMs and setup designers, I refer you to the wiki entries for "Serial Killer" on both Mafiascum and MafiaUniverse, which refer to the Serial Killer's nightkill as a factional kill, even though the Serial Killer operates alone and has no team-mates.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ial_Killer

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/da ... l%20Killer

So according to your interpretation, if emc is telling the truth, there is no longer a 3P faction in play?

I do not have sufficient information to reach a conclusion on that issue.

[kgray]

So according to your interpretation, if emc is telling the truth, there is no longer a 3P faction in play?

I do not have sufficient information to reach a conclusion on that issue.

No one does, unless they're part of the hypothetical 3rd party faction. We should move on...

[xorxes]

So according to your interpretation, if emc is telling the truth, there is no longer a 3P faction in play?

I do not have sufficient information to reach a conclusion on that issue.

No one does, unless they're part of the hypothetical 3rd party faction. We should move on...

So in your opinion, from the rules as stated, it is impossible to say whether the game started with only one 3P faction or with more than one 3P factions?

[kgray]

I do not have sufficient information to reach a conclusion on that issue.

No one does, unless they're part of the hypothetical 3rd party faction. We should move on...

So in your opinion, from the rules as stated, it is impossible to say whether the game started with only one 3P faction or with more than one 3P factions?

Correct. I do not think either scenario is directly contradicted by the information given by worcej in post 2.

[damo666]

I think worcej was a bit misleading in saying that there is a 3rd party faction but then having a 3rd party that is not a member of that faction if that is the case also. I don't know how much weight I can put on that, but that bothers me as well.

Do you know about a 3rd party faction that emc is not a part of?

If emc adopted Donny's alignment there almost certainly is another 3p out there

[Jamiet99uk]

No one does, unless they're part of the hypothetical 3rd party faction. We should move on...

So in your opinion, from the rules as stated, it is impossible to say whether the game started with only one 3P faction or with more than one 3P factions?

Correct. I do not think either scenario is directly contradicted by the information given by worcej in post 2.

I concur.

[xorxes]

No one does, unless they're part of the hypothetical 3rd party faction. We should move on...

So in your opinion, from the rules as stated, it is impossible to say whether the game started with only one 3P faction or with more than one 3P factions?

Correct. I do not think either scenario is directly contradicted by the information given by worcej in post 2.

OK.

For me, this: "​There is one mafia faction, one town faction, and a 3P faction" would be a strange way to put it if the game started with more than one 3P faction. I guess pedantically you can say "there is a 3P faction" when there is actually more than one. I still don't think I'm being obtuse if I'm a bit uncomfortable with that.

[Jamiet99uk]

So in your opinion, from the rules as stated, it is impossible to say whether the game started with only one 3P faction or with more than one 3P factions?

Correct. I do not think either scenario is directly contradicted by the information given by worcej in post 2.

OK.

For me, this: "​There is one mafia faction, one town faction, and a 3P faction" would be a strange way to put it if the game started with more than one 3P faction. I guess pedantically you can say "there is a 3P faction" when there is actually more than one. I still don't think I'm being obtuse if I'm a bit uncomfortable with that.

What I think is that you are spending a great deal of time and effort talking about this, and I am not sure how it is helping you to find any scum.

[bozotheclown]

I think worcej was a bit misleading in saying that there is a 3rd party faction but then having a 3rd party that is not a member of that faction if that is the case also. I don't know how much weight I can put on that, but that bothers me as well.

Do you know about a 3rd party faction that emc is not a part of?

If emc adopted Donny's alignment there almost certainly is another 3p out there

I think is it possible a universal backup was the extent of the third party, but if there is a third party killing faction, that should become apparent.

[Chaqa]

There is one mafia faction, one town faction, and a 3P faction
There is at least one 3p (obviously)
Role and alignment of the player will be revealed on flips, unless an ability prevents it

This makes me think there is an additional 3P faction outside of EMC.

He isn't a 3P faction, he's just a 3P.

So you're saying that in addition to the 3P faction, there may be another 3p that is not part of the faction? I guess it can be interpreted that way,,,

Yeah, I suspect there is like a Cult or some other non-mafia 3P out there

[xorxes]

Correct. I do not think either scenario is directly contradicted by the information given by worcej in post 2.

OK.

For me, this: "​There is one mafia faction, one town faction, and a 3P faction" would be a strange way to put it if the game started with more than one 3P faction. I guess pedantically you can say "there is a 3P faction" when there is actually more than one. I still don't think I'm being obtuse if I'm a bit uncomfortable with that.

What I think is that you are spending a great deal of time and effort talking about this, and I am not sure how it is helping you to find any scum.

It is important to decide emc's alignment.

[kgray]

So in your opinion, from the rules as stated, it is impossible to say whether the game started with only one 3P faction or with more than one 3P factions?

Correct. I do not think either scenario is directly contradicted by the information given by worcej in post 2.

OK.

For me, this: "​There is one mafia faction, one town faction, and a 3P faction" would be a strange way to put it if the game started with more than one 3P faction. I guess pedantically you can say "there is a 3P faction" when there is actually more than one. I still don't think I'm being obtuse if I'm a bit uncomfortable with that.

It could also be that emc's role isn't meant to be it's own "faction" since his alignment (if he's being honest) is decided after the game starts but becomes one of mafia, town or 3p.

I don't think you're being obtuse, but I also don't think we're going to get anywhere with this.

[kgray]

What I think is that you are spending a great deal of time and effort talking about this, and I am not sure how it is helping you to find any scum.

What would you like to talk about instead, Jamie? I'd be particularly interested in non-mechanics topics, since I've thought more about roles today than I ever thought I'd need to....

[xorxes]

## vote EMC

I think he is 3p. If I'm right we also got Chaqa. If he flips town we have a townclear with redundant power and not an attractive NK . Good gamble imo.

This vote was not registered by the bot.

[Jamiet99uk]

## vote EMC

I think he is 3p. If I'm right we also got Chaqa. If he flips town we have a townclear with redundant power and not an attractive NK . Good gamble imo.

This vote was not registered by the bot.

I t i s b e c a u s e t h e r e i s a s p a c e

[Jamiet99uk]

What I think is that you are spending a great deal of time and effort talking about this, and I am not sure how it is helping you to find any scum.

What would you like to talk about instead, Jamie? I'd be particularly interested in non-mechanics topics, since I've thought more about roles today than I ever thought I'd need to....

Okay. You have now been in a couple of games with Bozotheclown.

Do you think that Bozo's behaviour / attitude / style in this game is any different from the previous times you've played with him?

[brainbomb]

I think were taking our eye off focus here with too much mech talk and not enough good old fashioned who is laying back talk

[kgray]

What I think is that you are spending a great deal of time and effort talking about this, and I am not sure how it is helping you to find any scum.

What would you like to talk about instead, Jamie? I'd be particularly interested in non-mechanics topics, since I've thought more about roles today than I ever thought I'd need to....

Okay. You have now been in a couple of games with Bozotheclown.

Do you think that Bozo's behaviour / attitude / style in this game is any different from the previous times you've played with him?

Without having done an iso or looked into this carefully, I'd say he's reminding me a lot more of his scum game from M54 than his town game from M1010. But granted, when he was scum in M54 he was patient zero, so I don't know if that's the best reference for scum-bozo.

[bozotheclown]

The simplest explanation is that emc was the third part faction, and now everyone is town or mafia. If so, there are probably 4 or 5 mafia.

If we believe all claims and implied claims:

3P:
emc: Third Party Universal Backup (now town Tracker)

town:
Donny Dude: Tracker
foodcoats: Lightning Rod
Chaqa: mystery role with night QT
Jamie: town investigative role
brainbomb: town visiting role