M55: The Last Party - Game Thread

[xorxes]

So emc could've picked up Tracker after all.

And it might be the later voters and the vanity voters who are the scum.

Does your role description say that your power is performed first, and therefore can't be roleblocked?

Yeah, it happens before any other roleblocking abilities.

Any *other* roleblocking abilities? Is Lightning Rod considered a roleblocking ability?

If so, this suggests that the Jailor may be scum.

[foodcoats]

emc's claim seems believable to me, I do not think he should be the lynch.

So you don't believe Donny's "secretary" was a scumslip?

As bad as it looked, I do not know why a scum Donny would bring up a real mafia role. If emc was the Third Party Universal Backup that took Donny's scum role, it should become apparent, unless he really was a mafia tracker, which I think is very unlikely.

That's what I said D1. y u no listen to me then? You said I sounded like worcej or something...

[summit_fever]

Third Party Universal Backup

Did you have a choice of when to activate it?

Nope. The role PM was very...calling out who I am as a player lmao.

Paraphrasing it was along the lines of "You're too indecisive to which alignment you want to be, so you'll just let everyone else pick for you. You'll become whoever dies first, and janitor that flip. If you die before gaining an alignment you instantly lose"

Is it possible that this power would allow for alignment change as well?
My reading of it suggests not.

[kgray]

I think worcej was a bit misleading in saying that there is a 3rd party faction but then having a 3rd party that is not a member of that faction if that is the case also. I don't know how much weight I can put on that, but that bothers me as well.

Do you know about a 3rd party faction that emc is not a part of?

[summit_fever]

Bozo dear, now you are being pedantic for the sake of being pedantic

Can you stop +1ing as well, to prove it is not a requirement of your role?

Not particularly, since I don't really want to have to come back here post-game and go through it all again to make up for it.

Don't really like this post.

[xorxes]

I think worcej was a bit misleading in saying that there is a 3rd party faction but then having a 3rd party that is not a member of that faction if that is the case also. I don't know how much weight I can put on that, but that bothers me as well.

GM Note:
Everything stated in the known information (post #2) is factual. Due to the design as a closed setup, I would not intentionally mislead you with any of this information.

@emc, would you want to comment on that?

[summit_fever]

I think we should lynch a lurker. One of the problems I think town has in catching scum is that inactive people don't get mindshare. Lurking is a good strategy for scum.

I agree. Bismarck's efforts at not lurking aren't convincing to me.

##vote bismarck

[summit_fever]

which initial letters? I didn't manage to understand his role, just found it odd.

Vecna talked about "Pineapples, Papayas and passion fruits." to Donny and Bismarck thinks it's a 3rd party (3Ps) crumb.

Oh, this has been discussed already. Never mind.

Just to point out that was my thought. (I believe I was the first to point it out)

[xorxes]

I think worcej was a bit misleading in saying that there is a 3rd party faction but then having a 3rd party that is not a member of that faction if that is the case also. I don't know how much weight I can put on that, but that bothers me as well.

Do you know about a 3rd party faction that emc is not a part of?

No, but a faction of one is not much of a faction, especially one that only lasts for one day.

[foodcoats]

I think worcej was a bit misleading in saying that there is a 3rd party faction but then having a 3rd party that is not a member of that faction if that is the case also. I don't know how much weight I can put on that, but that bothers me as well.

GM Note:
Everything stated in the known information (post #2) is factual. Due to the design as a closed setup, I would not intentionally mislead you with any of this information.

@emc, would you want to comment on that?

I don't understand this, xorxes. Are you saying that the 3P emc is claiming is not a 3P faction or something? This seems pedantic.

[foodcoats]

I think worcej was a bit misleading in saying that there is a 3rd party faction but then having a 3rd party that is not a member of that faction if that is the case also. I don't know how much weight I can put on that, but that bothers me as well.

Do you know about a 3rd party faction that emc is not a part of?

No, but a faction of one is not much of a faction, especially one that only lasts for one day.

This is quibbling... if worcej worded it differently it would've given information.

[Chaqa]

There is one mafia faction, one town faction, and a 3P faction
There is at least one 3p (obviously)
Role and alignment of the player will be revealed on flips, unless an ability prevents it

This makes me think there is an additional 3P faction outside of EMC.

He isn't a 3P faction, he's just a 3P.

[kgray]

I think worcej was a bit misleading in saying that there is a 3rd party faction but then having a 3rd party that is not a member of that faction if that is the case also. I don't know how much weight I can put on that, but that bothers me as well.

Do you know about a 3rd party faction that emc is not a part of?

No, but a faction of one is not much of a faction, especially one that only lasts for one day.

True, but you never know how the setup changed because we didn't get to 24 people signed up. And there's no reason why the only 3p faction being one that disappears on the first day (or first kill, technically) is ruled out based on what worcej said in post 2. Although, I don't think anything that worcej said in post 2 precludes the possibility that emc starts the game as a 3rd party that is not in the same 3rd party faction as a different faction, either.

[kgray]

Vecna talked about "Pineapples, Papayas and passion fruits." to Donny and Bismarck thinks it's a 3rd party (3Ps) crumb.

Oh, this has been discussed already. Never mind.

Just to point out that was my thought. (I believe I was the first to point it out)

You were, I think. I meant that I didn't need to call attention to it, because others already had. I still think it was a good catch, and I'd like to know why Vecna did it.

[bozotheclown]

I think worcej was a bit misleading in saying that there is a 3rd party faction but then having a 3rd party that is not a member of that faction if that is the case also. I don't know how much weight I can put on that, but that bothers me as well.

Do you know about a 3rd party faction that emc is not a part of?

No, but a faction of one is not much of a faction, especially one that only lasts for one day.

The wording could have just been generic so that we could not make any assumptions.

[bozotheclown]

So you don't believe Donny's "secretary" was a scumslip?

As bad as it looked, I do not know why a scum Donny would bring up a real mafia role. If emc was the Third Party Universal Backup that took Donny's scum role, it should become apparent, unless he really was a mafia tracker, which I think is very unlikely.

That's what I said D1. y u no listen to me then? You said I sounded like worcej or something...

I listened and considered it D1, but it still looks bad. When I said you sounded like worcej, I meant that you could be scum being confident in your town read of Donny, which would have meant that you were correct.

[xorxes]

GM Note:
Everything stated in the known information (post #2) is factual. Due to the design as a closed setup, I would not intentionally mislead you with any of this information.

@emc, would you want to comment on that?

I don't understand this, xorxes. Are you saying that the 3P emc is claiming is not a 3P faction or something? This seems pedantic.

The wording changed from this in the signup:

1. There is one mafia faction, one town faction, and a 3P faction
2. There is a 3p

To this:

1. There is one mafia faction, one town faction, and a 3P faction
2. There is at least one 3p (obviously)

It suggests a faction with more than one member (or a growing faction).

Also this:

[*]For ability adjudication, the town teams ability will go first, then mafia, followed by 3P.

suggests at least the possibility that the 3P faction can have abilities.

So it is not conclusive, but if a single Third Party Universal Backup that disappears after the first death is considered a 3P faction, and "a" was changed to "at least one" for some reason, then I think I'm justified in being suspicious.

[bozotheclown]

So you don't believe Donny's "secretary" was a scumslip?

As bad as it looked, I do not know why a scum Donny would bring up a real mafia role. If emc was the Third Party Universal Backup that took Donny's scum role, it should become apparent, unless he really was a mafia tracker, which I think is very unlikely.

Maybe he just didn't realize that it was an unusual role. People have brought up "normal" scum roles like roleblocker and ninja and that's not as suspicious because there are good reasons for people to know about them.

I think more suspicious than the "slip" is that he couldn't show where he'd heard about the secretary role when Vecna was grilling him.

I agree Donny could have made that mistake as scum. That would also mean that emc made a mistake revealing he took Donny's role, unless the whole Universal Backup thing is fabricated, which I think would also be a mistake.

[xorxes]

There is one mafia faction, one town faction, and a 3P faction
There is at least one 3p (obviously)
Role and alignment of the player will be revealed on flips, unless an ability prevents it

This makes me think there is an additional 3P faction outside of EMC.

He isn't a 3P faction, he's just a 3P.

So you're saying that in addition to the 3P faction, there may be another 3p that is not part of the faction? I guess it can be interpreted that way,,,

[Jamiet99uk]

I think worcej was a bit misleading in saying that there is a 3rd party faction but then having a 3rd party that is not a member of that faction if that is the case also. I don't know how much weight I can put on that, but that bothers me as well.

Do you know about a 3rd party faction that emc is not a part of?

No, but a faction of one is not much of a faction, especially one that only lasts for one day.

Speaking with my former and future GM hat on, I don't agree with Xorxes' interpretation of the terminology here.

It's quite commonplace to describe any third party, even a lone third party, as a "faction", even if they are a faction of one.

To support the fact that this is common practice among GMs and setup designers, I refer you to the wiki entries for "Serial Killer" on both Mafiascum and MafiaUniverse, which refer to the Serial Killer's nightkill as a factional kill, even though the Serial Killer operates alone and has no team-mates.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ial_Killer

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/da ... l%20Killer