M1010 Mini-Mafia

[xorxes]

I have not seen any reason to suspect rdrivera is scum, so I think he is probably town. I thought he could be right about Jamie and I understand his argument for lynching SK24.

Can you walk me through the case on Jamie?

If I unserstand correctly it is this: Jamie knew that bo was town, so he saw an opportunity to save him as a lynch for D2 and switched to Bunny. (But if he had stayed on bo, would that mean that he knew Bunny was town, and saved him for D2?)

Now rivera offered this case against Jamie on N1, before we knew that bo was town.

Can we not make the same argument against rivera, that he started suspecting Jamie so that when bo flipped town he could build a case against Jamie?

To me the whole thing seems extremely weak. Has Jamie been scummy in any way other than in moving his vote from one townie to another? Is that really a scummy move? It's just as likely to be a town motivated move, is it not? It is usually town, not scum, that hesitate on who is a better lynch.

Jamie was voting for bo_sox for 7 hours before deciding against lynching him 10 minutes before EOD for what I consider a questionable reason:

Ok listen. Reading Bo_Sox's iso from the second half of the day, his defences of himself strike me as very earnest and I'm not sure scum Bo would defend himself in this way.

I still think his tempter tantrum earlier was distasteful as was bringing the GM into it but I often get caught into thinking shitty play = scum play, and that's gotten me involved in too many mislynches over time.

##UNVOTE

This is how rdrivera put it:

Why do you think I might be scum, based on EoD?

Do you think I saved my scumbuddy Bo?

Anything else?

I don't like your EOD, your sudden change of mind telling Bo reaction is towny and telling a blatant lie that Bo won't act that way as scum, when you played a great amount of games with him and know he already did it. Who has motivation to lie?

I also think there is a chance Jamie was bussing Foxcastle when Foxcastle became a wagon D1.

Do you really think Jamie moving his vote after voting for 7 hours is more scummy than brainbomb not moving his vote after voting for 6 hours?

Do you think brainbomb could have been bussing Foxcastle when he became a wagon?

Do you believe brainbomb is the Watcher?

[Jamiet99uk]

Why are you voting an un-cced PR clarim? Why you are so sure Brain was lying since the claim?

1. He has already also falsely claimed Vengeful Townie and Role Cop during this game. I'm sure he wishes he had also claimed Doctor before the Doctor died as well.

2. He claimed he tracked Worcej and caught him performing the NightKill, but he is not voting for Worcej.

Why do you think anyone should believe him?

Hmm that's a good point.

It's two good points.

[rdrivera2005]

@rdrivera what are your reads?

My reads:

Scum: Jamiet and Xorxes

Town: Damo, Bozo, Brain and Worcej

Don't know, one of them is the third scum: Sarah and Fox

[damo666]

Remind me what your case on me is?

Do you have any questions for me?

Why are you voting an un-cced PR clarim? Why you are so sure Brain was lying since the claim?

1. He has already also falsely claimed Vengeful Townie and Role Cop during this game. I'm sure he wishes he had also claimed Doctor before the Doctor died as well.

2. He claimed he tracked Worcej and caught him performing the NightKill, but he is not voting for Worcej.

Why do you think anyone should believe him?

Is lying only in the province of scum?

[damo666]

He's voted for four people so far. That means he's halfway to completing the set and earning a free Happy Meal.

He's only got fox rdr Sarah and bozo to go

Yes, that's four, you can count to four, well done.

[xorxes]

rdrivera was just saying the question was meaningless, because no one should want to get killed N1, which is exactly what I thought.

He was, but when damo said it was scummy, he said "Bingo. I find really odd only Damo seems to notice this."

So first he reacted one way and then in a different way. My own reaction was thinking it scummy as well, but I see how he could have seen it merely as noise. But he changed his reaction when responding to damo. That's what seemed odd to me.

[rdrivera2005]

Why are you voting an un-cced PR clarim? Why you are so sure Brain was lying since the claim?

1. He has already also falsely claimed Vengeful Townie and Role Cop during this game. I'm sure he wishes he had also claimed Doctor before the Doctor died as well.

2. He claimed he tracked Worcej and caught him performing the NightKill, but he is not voting for Worcej.

Why do you think anyone should believe him?

Is lying only in the province of scum?

A good town player (Xorxes) once said we should look for people's motivations not only the actions.
What is a scum motivation for Brain to act this way? Even if he was being pressured (and he wasn't) this kind of claim as scum is better done close to EOD so you either force a CC or escape the lynch.

[xorxes]

1. He has already also falsely claimed Vengeful Townie and Role Cop during this game. I'm sure he wishes he had also claimed Doctor before the Doctor died as well.

Correction:

who should I docsave

[rdrivera2005]

rdrivera was just saying the question was meaningless, because no one should want to get killed N1, which is exactly what I thought.

He was, but when damo said it was scummy, he said "Bingo. I find really odd only Damo seems to notice this."

So first he reacted one way and then in a different way. My own reaction was thinking it scummy as well, but I see how he could have seen it merely as noise. But he changed his reaction when responding to damo. That's what seemed odd to me.

You are using the same tactics you used last game to pick comments from D1 to throw shadow at me. I understand as it worked last time.

[xorxes]

I don't think Worcej scum, his reaction to Brain claim looks townie to me. Lynch Jamiet with me today.

I disagree, I think worcej would react the same way as scum, so that is NAI.

I agree with that. I didn't see anything particularly convincing there from worcej. Even the Flavius catching-up he was doing at the time could be sees as sus. Or it could mean nothing.

[bozotheclown]

Can you walk me through the case on Jamie?

If I unserstand correctly it is this: Jamie knew that bo was town, so he saw an opportunity to save him as a lynch for D2 and switched to Bunny. (But if he had stayed on bo, would that mean that he knew Bunny was town, and saved him for D2?)

Now rivera offered this case against Jamie on N1, before we knew that bo was town.

Can we not make the same argument against rivera, that he started suspecting Jamie so that when bo flipped town he could build a case against Jamie?

To me the whole thing seems extremely weak. Has Jamie been scummy in any way other than in moving his vote from one townie to another? Is that really a scummy move? It's just as likely to be a town motivated move, is it not? It is usually town, not scum, that hesitate on who is a better lynch.

Jamie was voting for bo_sox for 7 hours before deciding against lynching him 10 minutes before EOD for what I consider a questionable reason:

Ok listen. Reading Bo_Sox's iso from the second half of the day, his defences of himself strike me as very earnest and I'm not sure scum Bo would defend himself in this way.

I still think his tempter tantrum earlier was distasteful as was bringing the GM into it but I often get caught into thinking shitty play = scum play, and that's gotten me involved in too many mislynches over time.

##UNVOTE

This is how rdrivera put it:

I don't like your EOD, your sudden change of mind telling Bo reaction is towny and telling a blatant lie that Bo won't act that way as scum, when you played a great amount of games with him and know he already did it. Who has motivation to lie?

I also think there is a chance Jamie was bussing Foxcastle when Foxcastle became a wagon D1.

Do you really think Jamie moving his vote after voting for 7 hours is more scummy than brainbomb not moving his vote after voting for 6 hours?

Do you think brainbomb could have been bussing Foxcastle when he became a wagon?

Do you believe brainbomb is the Watcher?

brainbomb voted for Foxcastle in the middle of D1. He also changed his vote 8 times D1, even brainbomb would have a hard time going 48 hours without leaving his vote somewhere for 6 hours (5 hours 17 minutes, according to the bot).

I think brainbomb could have been bussing Foxcastle, as I mentioned N2.

I do not believe brainbomb is the watcher.

[xorxes]

@rdrivera what are your reads?

My reads:

Scum: Jamiet and Xorxes

Town: Damo, Bozo, Brain and Worcej

Don't know, one of them is the third scum: Sarah and Fox

What have I done that you find scummy (other than suspect you?)

You claim that you don't always scumread me, only when I do scummy things. But I don't think you have pointed out any scummy thing I did this game.

One silver lining to this is that it confirms my intuition that you always end up scumreading me, not just when I'm scum. So the fact that you do always catch me when I'm scum is just a reflection of you always scumreading me, not because you can read me correctly when I'm scum.

I really wanted to say this last game, but it didn't feel right because you were "right" in scumreading me, but I feel very comfortable saying it this time.

[damo666]

@bozo are you willing to vote brain?

[xorxes]

1. He has already also falsely claimed Vengeful Townie and Role Cop during this game. I'm sure he wishes he had also claimed Doctor before the Doctor died as well.

2. He claimed he tracked Worcej and caught him performing the NightKill, but he is not voting for Worcej.

Why do you think anyone should believe him?

Is lying only in the province of scum?

A good town player (Xorxes) once said we should look for people's motivations not only the actions.
What is a scum motivation for Brain to act this way? Even if he was being pressured (and he wasn't) this kind of claim as scum is better done close to EOD so you either force a CC or escape the lynch.

His motivation was to elicit a counterclaim. He certainly was being pressured. Read the night posts, he was next in line.

[bozotheclown]

rdrivera was just saying the question was meaningless, because no one should want to get killed N1, which is exactly what I thought.

He was, but when damo said it was scummy, he said "Bingo. I find really odd only Damo seems to notice this."

So first he reacted one way and then in a different way. My own reaction was thinking it scummy as well, but I see how he could have seen it merely as noise. But he changed his reaction when responding to damo. That's what seemed odd to me.

IN THE EVENT THE VENGEFUL DIES

Are you willing to be his kill today
My answer is yes

please answer this question all

I don't understand this question Brain and neither your answer? Why a town would want to be Vengeful target? Why a scum would want to be the target?

Why “scummy”? Why not just “vapid”? Or “useless”?

The question itself is pretty useless as it is unlikely to be answered by most.
The posing of the question is scummy as it smacks of PR hunting.

Bingo. I find really odd only Damo seems to notice this.

In his first post, rdrivera did not indicate if he thought the question was scum indicative or not. damo also said the question was useless, rdrivera could have been responding to that. I did not see any contradiction there.

[bozotheclown]

@bozo are you willing to vote brain?

He would be about my fifth choice.

[Jamiet99uk]

1. He has already also falsely claimed Vengeful Townie and Role Cop during this game. I'm sure he wishes he had also claimed Doctor before the Doctor died as well.

Correction:

who should I docsave

Oh, haha, he did as well.

Ok but my point stands. If anything this strengthens my point.

[xorxes]

rdrivera was just saying the question was meaningless, because no one should want to get killed N1, which is exactly what I thought.

He was, but when damo said it was scummy, he said "Bingo. I find really odd only Damo seems to notice this."

So first he reacted one way and then in a different way. My own reaction was thinking it scummy as well, but I see how he could have seen it merely as noise. But he changed his reaction when responding to damo. That's what seemed odd to me.

You are using the same tactics you used last game to pick comments from D1 to throw shadow at me. I understand as it worked last time.

I see. Anything I point out about you is throwing shadow, but anything you point out about someone else is scumhunting, am I right?

[Jamiet99uk]

Why are you voting an un-cced PR clarim? Why you are so sure Brain was lying since the claim?

1. He has already also falsely claimed Vengeful Townie and Role Cop during this game. I'm sure he wishes he had also claimed Doctor before the Doctor died as well.

2. He claimed he tracked Worcej and caught him performing the NightKill, but he is not voting for Worcej.

Why do you think anyone should believe him?

Is lying only in the province of scum?

Rdrivera specifically asked me why I was sure he was lying.

I was answering that question.

[brainbomb]

He was, but when damo said it was scummy, he said "Bingo. I find really odd only Damo seems to notice this."

So first he reacted one way and then in a different way. My own reaction was thinking it scummy as well, but I see how he could have seen it merely as noise. But he changed his reaction when responding to damo. That's what seemed odd to me.

You are using the same tactics you used last game to pick comments from D1 to throw shadow at me. I understand as it worked last time.

I see. Anything I point out about you is throwing shadow, but anything you point out about someone else is scumhunting, am I right?

xorxes doesnt say horseshit like this as town