M54: Not a Carrot Conspiracy

[BunnyGo]

I will add:

@Xorx just said something like: “The only think Balki has done all game is tunnel on Fox.” That is just not true, and it doesn’t sound sincere. I believe deep in my soul that Xorx is Patient Zero.

I don’t understand how Bunny’s vote preference is basically “Damo or kgray, whichever wagon has more people on it”...

If kgray is scum, she’s played an amazing game and she has fooled me completely. Every step, she says things from a town perspective.

I think Town is going to lose today.

Stop twisting my words. It’s disingenuous. And it gives me the creeps.

Town has a lift, but the fat lady isn’t warming up yet. Get to work. I’m digging for thoughts, reads, pairing ideas etc etc. I appreciate any help with clear ideas.

I’m not intending to twist your words. Can you clarify your vote preference?

At the start of the day it was Damo > kgray. I also strongly agree with bozo that we need a big wagon so scum don’t manipulate us. Ok currently leaning kgray > Damo because he’s been townier during mylo/lylo. I can see a good noob scum flailing here.

[BunnyGo]

Yep.

Yup. My leading scum teams are Damo/xorxes and kgray/balki.

Well you are currently doing the bidding of the first one of those teams. Don't you trust your read on Xorxes?

I trust no reads. Haven’t you been watching me play?

Xorxes has been better today than Balki. Damo better than kgray. But I’m very confused.

[BunnyGo]

Why are scum like greyhounds?

Because if the Bunny moves they will be sure to follow.

LOL

[kgray]

Previous games irrelevant.

Xorxes trying to get you lynched is town indicative.

Previous games are irrelevant? Does that mean you think xorxes' "meta" read on you is also fabricated?

Fair point. I meant the quotes were irrelevant as far as I am concerned being familiar with Xorxes meta. He may be able to read me like a book. I can read him like a library.

Well, I'm not really familiar with xorxes' meta at all, but I'm convinced there's a difference between town-xorxes from M1009 and the xorxes that is in this game.

[Jamiet99uk]

Can I have your attention, please?

I have been studying, in some detail, the Xorxes bussing of MoscowFleet in M42, and the events in this game where we suspect Xorxes may have bussed Bob McBob.

Here is what I have found:

--------------------------------

On Day Two of M42, Xorxes listed Moscow as a null at EoD, and otherwise didn't mention him at all. During Night Two, likewise, he didn't mention Moscow's name even once.

On Day Three of M42, Xorxes had moved Moscow into his "scum pool" but still wasn't talking about him. Then suddently Moscow said he was interested in voting Xorxes, and then did so.

Xorxes responded by attacking Moscow's short "case" and voted for Moscow in response. Both were scum and there was some two-way bussing going on here.

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Now let's turn to the current game. The key days for this issue are also Day 2 and Day 3.

On Day 2 of this game Xorxes mentioned Bob only once, and then only in response to a question from Bozo, to which Xorxes relied that Bob was probably "just awful town". No other Bob-related remarks at all.

On Day 3 Xorxes didn't have anything to say about Bob until Bob voted for him. Now Xorxes said "I suppose I could vote for Bob if a wagon forms... His vote for me was ridiculous."

Soon after, Rdrivera pushed hard for a Bob wagon to form. Xorxes, having already declared he would participate in a Bob wagon, became the first vote on that wagon. Rdrivera quickly joined that wagon and it gained momentum.

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Observations:

In both of these cases, Xorxes barely mentions the other person until they vote for him.

In both cases, Xorxes responds to the vote on him with what would look at the time like an OMGUS reaction, essentially: "his case on me is shit, I will vote for him".

The Xorxes vote on Bob McBob looks so, so similar to what happened with Moscowfleet in M42, and we know that was bussing.

Conclusion: Xorxes did indeed bus Bob McBob. He is scum.

[Jamiet99uk]

Xorxes is the correct vote today.

Please vote for Xorxes.

[kgray]

Xorxes has been better today than Balki. Damo better than kgray.

Bunny can you please give a few reasons why you think this? I very sincerely do not understand why you're coming to this conclusion.

[xorxes]

Soon after, Rdrivera pushed hard for a Bob wagon to form. Xorxes, having already declared he would participate in a Bob wagon, became the first vote on that wagon. Rdrivera quickly joined that wagon and it gained momentum.

"Pushed hard"? This is what rivera said:

I can join a wagon on Bob. I know we shouldn't try to outguess the GMs but I can't avoid thinking that if Sulit was town we will just have a modkill.

Do you really think that's pushing hard, or are you embellishing your case?

@Jamiet, what do you think of Fox's case on Balki? How he used the exact same strategy to go after him the game Balki was scum?

[kgray]

Sorry, messed up that quote. This is what I meant:

Xorxes has been better today than Balki. Damo better than kgray.

Bunny can you please give a few reasons why you think this? I very sincerely do not understand why you're coming to this conclusion.

[kgray]

@xorxes it seems like you're absolutely convinced I'm scum. If you're town, you need to convince the rest of town that you're right. Why aren't you trying to do that?

[Jamiet99uk]

Soon after, Rdrivera pushed hard for a Bob wagon to form. Xorxes, having already declared he would participate in a Bob wagon, became the first vote on that wagon. Rdrivera quickly joined that wagon and it gained momentum.

"Pushed hard"? This is what rivera said:

I can join a wagon on Bob. I know we shouldn't try to outguess the GMs but I can't avoid thinking that if Sulit was town we will just have a modkill.

Do you really think that's pushing hard, or are you embellishing your case?

He also said, one or two posts before that, "On the lurkers I would choose Bob McSulit, two lurkers for the price of one."

But I suppose that's not "pushing hard", fair enough. That's not the central theme of my case. Rdrivera's behaviour is not the issue. My case is that your behaviour is near identical in both examples.

[kgray]

I'm really starting to worry that Bunny is PZ who now knows either that I'm town or damo is scum. And if that's the case, and bozo doesn't reconsider, town is going to lose.

[xorxes]

@xorxes it seems like you're absolutely convinced I'm scum. If you're town, you need to convince the rest of town that you're right. Why aren't you trying to do that?

I am trying. I need to convince either Jamie or Bunny, whichever of them is town.

BTW, what do you think about Fox's case on how Balki pursued him with the exact same arguments he used as scum?

[Jamiet99uk]

@Jamiet, what do you think of Fox's case on Balki? How he used the exact same strategy to go after him the game Balki was scum?

I am not clearing Balki just yet. It's possible he's still scum, possible.

But I'm confident that you are, and what went on between Fox and Balki is not relevant to that.

It's telling that you're asking me about tangential issues rather than refuting the core point of my analysis.

[xorxes]

Soon after, Rdrivera pushed hard for a Bob wagon to form. Xorxes, having already declared he would participate in a Bob wagon, became the first vote on that wagon. Rdrivera quickly joined that wagon and it gained momentum.

"Pushed hard"? This is what rivera said:

I can join a wagon on Bob. I know we shouldn't try to outguess the GMs but I can't avoid thinking that if Sulit was town we will just have a modkill.

Do you really think that's pushing hard, or are you embellishing your case?

He also said, one or two posts before that, "On the lurkers I would choose Bob McSulit, two lurkers for the price of one."

But I suppose that's not "pushing hard", fair enough. That's not the central theme of my case. Rdrivera's behaviour is not the issue. My case is that your behaviour is near identical in both examples.

So why embellish then if it wasn't relevant?

And what do you think of Balki's identical behaviour both times in going after Fox?

[xorxes]

@Jamiet, what do you think of Fox's case on Balki? How he used the exact same strategy to go after him the game Balki was scum?

I am not clearing Balki just yet. It's possible he's still scum, possible.

But I'm confident that you are, and what went on between Fox and Balki is not relevant to that.

It's telling that you're asking me about tangential issues rather than refuting the core point of my analysis.

You can't dissociate things like that. The similarities you point out between Moscow and Bob are much weaker than the Balki thing. Figuring Balki out is part of figuring out the game, because if Balki is scum it is much less likely that I am.

[kgray]

@xorxes it seems like you're absolutely convinced I'm scum. If you're town, you need to convince the rest of town that you're right. Why aren't you trying to do that?

I am trying. I need to convince either Jamie or Bunny, whichever of them is town.

BTW, what do you think about Fox's case on how Balki pursued him with the exact same arguments he used as scum?

You're trying to convince either Jamie or Bunny that I'm scum but you haven't given any reason for that besides your claim that you think damo is townier from meta and I'm therefore in your POE. Surely you see why that might not be a very convincing argument? Can't you find something concrete that I've done that's scummy?

And I don't know. Fox was town so I believe he honestly thought Balki was scum. However, I think that scum-Balki in the other games could have easily used the same argument that town-Balki would use, so I'm not convinced that this makes Balki scum here.

From my POV it's almost impossible that Balki is nonPZ scum. If town votes right today and the game doesn't end, I'll think about Balki more later. Today, I'm voting for either you or damo.

[xorxes]

And I don't know. Fox was town so I believe he honestly thought Balki was scum. However, I think that scum-Balki in the other games could have easily used the same argument that town-Balki would use, so I'm not convinced that this makes Balki scum here.

That was not quite the argument though. Town!Balki suspected town!Fox in one game because of some personality trait of Fox. Then scum!Balki used the same argument against town!Fox in a subsequent game. And now in this game Balki used again the same argument, even with the same expressions, that he used as scum, even though by now Balki already knew that that was not a scumtell for Fox.

[Jamiet99uk]

So why embellish then if it wasn't relevant?

I slightly misread Rdrivera's tone. I did not seek to embellish anything. You are ascribing scummy motivations to me in an effort to diminish my case, without engaging with its substance.

This convinces me that my central point is sound.

Your bussing behaviour when you bussed Moscowfleet aligns closely to your vote for Bob in this game.

[bozotheclown]

Stop twisting my words. It’s disingenuous. And it gives me the creeps.

Town has a lift, but the fat lady isn’t warming up yet. Get to work. I’m digging for thoughts, reads, pairing ideas etc etc. I appreciate any help with clear ideas.

I’m not intending to twist your words. Can you clarify your vote preference?

At the start of the day it was Damo > kgray. I also strongly agree with bozo that we need a big wagon so scum don’t manipulate us. Ok currently leaning kgray > Damo because he’s been townier during mylo/lylo. I can see a good noob scum flailing here.

One large wagon by EOD gives us the best chance of having town vote together, and also prevents scum from jumping at EOD for the win. If we consolidate on the wrong wagon we lose, but if the vote is 4-3, and the 4 are not all town, we will lose if either wagon is town.