M54: Not a Carrot Conspiracy

[damo666]

Jamie is key.

If he is scum I think we're fine. If he is town he needs to see the light.

Balki being scum is nigh on transparent.

I'm reading Bunny as more town than Jamie so am hopeful we have the game wrapped up.

It would appear that in the scum night chat they for some reason thought they had a better chance of lynching Xorxes than lynching me.

'scum' here includes PZ

There is not a 'strong assumption' that J is scum in the above.

There is an assumption that either Bunny or Jamie is scum with J being more likely but it's not a strong assumption.

[xorxes]

Here's another thing about Damo while I get ready to save the day (or not).

I really, really, really dislike the way Damo has redefined the term "scum" for his own purposes, in this game, to mean specifically "A Mafia who has access to the QT" and therefore whenever he says someone is "not scum" he could still be accusing that person of being the Patient Zero.

I wonder if he has done that on purpose to make his Iso more confusing because every time you read him saying "scum" or "not scum" he has decided to give those common terms his own special, different, meaning.

Patient Zero is aligned with the Mafia, Damo. They are therefore scum and your twisting of that terminology bothers me.

Everyone has been making that distinction, because it makes sense, especially early when PZ has the same information as town.

[Jamiet99uk]

Here's another thing about Damo while I get ready to save the day (or not).

I really, really, really dislike the way Damo has redefined the term "scum" for his own purposes, in this game, to mean specifically "A Mafia who has access to the QT" and therefore whenever he says someone is "not scum" he could still be accusing that person of being the Patient Zero.

I wonder if he has done that on purpose to make his Iso more confusing because every time you read him saying "scum" or "not scum" he has decided to give those common terms his own special, different, meaning.

Patient Zero is aligned with the Mafia, Damo. They are therefore scum and your twisting of that terminology bothers me.

Everyone has been making that distinction, because it makes sense, especially early when PZ has the same information as town.

Everyone.

Sure.

[damo666]

Tbf I think there was only 1 post I made where it was ambiguous.

I mostly used 'nonPZscum' type terminology.

Anyway at this stage PZ very probably has full info so hereon for me 'scum' means scum of any flavour and PZ means specifically PZ.

[xorxes]

Here's another thing about Damo while I get ready to save the day (or not).

I really, really, really dislike the way Damo has redefined the term "scum" for his own purposes, in this game, to mean specifically "A Mafia who has access to the QT" and therefore whenever he says someone is "not scum" he could still be accusing that person of being the Patient Zero.

I wonder if he has done that on purpose to make his Iso more confusing because every time you read him saying "scum" or "not scum" he has decided to give those common terms his own special, different, meaning.

Patient Zero is aligned with the Mafia, Damo. They are therefore scum and your twisting of that terminology bothers me.

Everyone has been making that distinction, because it makes sense, especially early when PZ has the same information as town.

Everyone.

Sure.

Hyperbole.

Many people have said things like this:

*for the most part, any of my townreads could be PZ, depending on how many remaining players' alignments PZ knows. I don't think we should lynch to find PZ though, so it doesn't really matter yet.

[damo666]

@Xorxes

Do you have to use the word 'hyperbole' in EVERY post?

[xorxes]

@Xorxes

Do you have to use the word 'hyperbole' in EVERY post?

Yes, it's in my contract.

[Jamiet99uk]

Hyperbole.

Many people have said things like this:

*for the most part, any of my townreads could be PZ, depending on how many remaining players' alignments PZ knows. I don't think we should lynch to find PZ though, so it doesn't really matter yet.

That is absolutely not the same thing as I was complaining about.

But sure, defend Damo harder. It's quite interesting to watch.

[xorxes]

Hyperbole.

Many people have said things like this:

*for the most part, any of my townreads could be PZ, depending on how many remaining players' alignments PZ knows. I don't think we should lynch to find PZ though, so it doesn't really matter yet.

That is absolutely not the same thing as I was complaining about.

But sure, defend Damo harder. It's quite interesting to watch.

damo said that he was using "scum" to refer to the non-PZ scum. kgray said that when she townread someone, that could include PZ. It seems like the same distinction to me. How is it absolutely not the same thing?

[Jamiet99uk]

Hyperbole.

Many people have said things like this:

That is absolutely not the same thing as I was complaining about.

But sure, defend Damo harder. It's quite interesting to watch.

damo said that he was using "scum" to refer to the non-PZ scum. kgray said that when she townread someone, that could include PZ. It seems like the same distinction to me. How is it absolutely not the same thing?

Kgray is saying that her townreads could be inaccurate because they might include the PZ.

That's not the same as simply using the word "town" repeatedly, but actually meaning "town or PZ" without being clear about that from the outset.

As I recall Damo only clarified that when he said "scum" he meant "scum but not PZ" until he was questioned about his extreme certainty about things which it would be hard to be so certain about.

I'm sure you can see the difference. Don't pretend to be dim, it doesn't suit you.

[Jamiet99uk]

*when* he was questioned...

[xorxes]

That is absolutely not the same thing as I was complaining about.

But sure, defend Damo harder. It's quite interesting to watch.

damo said that he was using "scum" to refer to the non-PZ scum. kgray said that when she townread someone, that could include PZ. It seems like the same distinction to me. How is it absolutely not the same thing?

Kgray is saying that her townreads could be inaccurate because they might include the PZ.

That's not the same as simply using the word "town" repeatedly, but actually meaning "town or PZ" without being clear about that from the outset.

As I recall Damo only clarified that when he said "scum" he meant "scum but not PZ" until he was questioned about his extreme certainty about things which it would be hard to be so certain about.

I'm sure you can see the difference. Don't pretend to be dim, it doesn't suit you.

OK, kgray clarified at the outset, and damo clarified when questioned, that's a difference. I don't think it's a huge deal because I think the distinction between PZ and non-PZ scum is something most of us were aware of from the start and was discussed often.

[kgray]

@Bunny, I get the urge to want to lynch between damo and I. However, please consider something from my perspective: I very, very strongly believe that damo and xorxes are a scum pair. However, it is technically possible that xorxes is scum without damo being scum. If D6 was TvT, I could still see scum-xorxes playing this way. I do not see how xorxes could be town regardless of damo's alignment.

I'm very willing to lynch damo today. But I think xorxes is a better choice.

I don't like that you concluded this when you and Jamie were the only ones voting for damo and Jamie had previously said he would prefer to lynch xorxes. Did Jamie have any influence on your decision that xorxes is a better lynch than damo?

No. I was very suspicious of the way xorxes tried to get me lynched D6 because I don't think he has a good reason to scumread me. Even if POE is considered a "good" reason by more experienced players than me, xorxes certainly did not make his thought process clear up until EOD 6. I really encourage people to read what he had said about damo and I at that point and decide for themselves if it sounds like xorxes' reads were (1) honest and (2) strong enough to try to convince Bunny to lynch me - and avoid a tie!! - in mylo.

[Balki Bartokomous]

##vote Damo

Bunny, will you join me?

[Balki Bartokomous]

I will add:

@Xorx just said something like: “The only think Balki has done all game is tunnel on Fox.” That is just not true, and it doesn’t sound sincere. I believe deep in my soul that Xorx is Patient Zero.

I don’t understand how Bunny’s vote preference is basically “Damo or kgray, whichever wagon has more people on it”...

If kgray is scum, she’s played an amazing game and she has fooled me completely. Every step, she says things from a town perspective.

I think Town is going to lose today.

[kgray]

Also, I'd love it if you could point out where you explain your other scumreads. I see that you said this:

kgray > Balki > Bunny > Jamie > bozo > damo

And yet you provided no explanations. Why do you think Balki is scum? Is it just because you think I am, and it's your POE? Why Bunny over Jamie?

I think I have explained all my thinking quite clearly (and you had no trouble following my thinking before), but here is a summary:

The only thing Balki has done all game is tunnel on Fox with a carbon-copy case he used on him when he was scum in a previous game. He was strongly townreading me until today, when he suddenly decided I lack passion, which is not even something he came up with himself but just repeating what Bunny said. I have no idea what he thinks of anyone else, do you? Every time he is asked something he turns the question around and says he will respond later.

Bunny over Jamie because of his sudden vote for damo over you when he had been scumreading you most of that day. The only hope is that it was really because he was undecided. He wanted a no-lynch and he got one, so there's that, but I'm not confident that he won't have a "change of heart" again at EOD today and move to you.

Jamiet was very town Jamiet in the first part of the game. He has disappeared now. He is usually an active participant as he was at the beginning, but he has run out of steam. If he is town and stays on me, it's game over because that means Bunny (or bozo?) will vote for me at the end.

You over damo I already explained. I have played a lot with damo and I can tell when he is scum. Could I be wrong? Yes, but I don't think so. You have been townreading me all game and now you decided that I'm scum today because you read another game and find me different. So not because of anything I did this game.

Thank you.

I am not scumreading you because I read the other game. I'm scumreading you because you tried to get me lynched in mylo, and your scumread of me developed that day after bozo and Bunny were already on me. It seemed very opportunistic and no matter how much you explain your reads now, it doesn't change the fact that, at that time, it came out of basically no where. This point may be much more important to me than the rest of town, because I know that I'm town and they do not. But from my POV it's sketchy as hell.

I read the other game because of the five dead townies who all thought you were scum. And I when I read it, and saw posts from you that I did not expect to see from the xorxes I know from this game, I understood what they were seeing. I trust them. They could be wrong, but I know they were not intentionally trying to mislead town.

[damo666]

##vote Damo

Bunny, will you join me?

smacks of scum trying to invite town

[xorxes]

I read the other game because of the five dead townies who all thought you were scum. And I when I read it, and saw posts from you that I did not expect to see from the xorxes I know from this game, I understood what they were seeing. I trust them. They could be wrong, but I know they were not intentionally trying to mislead town.

Fox and Flum, who were the ones with the most information, thought that you and Balki were scum too, so we both know that they were wrong about at least one thing.

[xorxes]

##vote Damo

Bunny, will you join me?

smacks of scum trying to invite town

Yep.

[kgray]

I don’t understand how Bunny’s vote preference is basically “Damo or kgray, whichever wagon has more people on it”...

Yeah this really concerns me. We have a lot more to go off of other than the assumption that D6 was TvS.

I really, really think it was TvS and that damo is scum. But I don't know that, and if damo ends up being town then scum don't actually care which of us is lynched today. The push to keep the lynch between damo and I (spearheaded by Bunny, xorxes and even damo) is very suspicious. However, I think it's more likely that xorxes' extreme (but unconvincing, from my POV) preference to lynch me over damo makes it more likely damo is scum than town. Because if damo were town, xorxes wouldn't have had to double down on me so hard today to get a mislynch.