M54: Not a Carrot Conspiracy

[Balki Bartokomous]

@Damo, can you please read the case on Xorxes above and comment on it?

[Jamiet99uk]

##VOTE XORXES

More effort tomorrow. I'm having two of my four weekly beers and I'm tipsy due to having lost my alcohol tolerance.

[BunnyGo]

@Jamie @Bunny

We have heard a lot from Balki. I'd like to hear more from you two.

Sorry. It’s been a really long day. Will catch up more in a few hours.

[BunnyGo]

OK, just finished rereading my own previous rereads on damo. I don't know how I forgot all that. Fine kgray, hat tip to you if you're scum. ##vote Damo

What exactly were you referring to when you said you "forgot all that"?

BunnyGo has not answered this question yet. Is anyone else concerned that BunnyGo's reason for changing his vote from kgray to damo does not make sense?

Do a search for me talking about Damo. You’ll find an analysis. It was acummiwr than I’d remembered.

[xorxes]

Like who is this person? And before you anyone thinks I'm cherry picking quotes or something, just skim through this and tell me that this is the same person. xorxes in M1009 had passion, he put in effort, he wasn't afraid to start things. He's not doing that here. I'm pretty sure I'm his only scumread, and that's because of POE. This is nuts. I 100% get the push on him D4, and why the last 5 townies who died scumread him. I think they're right.

##vote xorxes

I still think damo is scum, obviously, and a damo and xorxes as scum partners makes perfect sense. But if damo is somehow town, I still don't see how xorxes can be.

Hmm...

There was a bit of cherrypicking there, yes. The first quote is because I was frustrated with rivera, who I was townreading for an obvious townslip, and he kept asking me over and over why I scumread worcej even after I explained it several times. So I could not attribute his denseness to scumminess. The second one was me chastizing Jamiet for scumreading bozo for telling a "lie" that was a patently obvious joke (that's where Chaqa's college roommates started to prop up everywhere, I think). Nothing like those things have happened this game for me to get into that state. The third one seems pretty normal me explaining something I did.

As for my scumreads, you either are not reading what I write, or you are just making stuff up. But since you're scum, I don't blame you for that.

[xorxes]

@Damo, can you please read the case on Xorxes above and comment on it?

Also, Balki, can you comment on it?

[xorxes]

##VOTE XORXES

More effort tomorrow. I'm having two of my four weekly beers and I'm tipsy due to having lost my alcohol tolerance.

I'll give you the benefit of alcohol then. Please don't lose us the game if you're town.

[xorxes]

##VOTE kgray

[Balki Bartokomous]

@Damo, can you please read the case on Xorxes above and comment on it?

Also, Balki, can you comment on it?

Yeah, I will.

@Xorx, should we expect some final push of effort from you today, or is this basically it? Do you feel like your reads are solid, and you just need to convince people? Or are you still undecided on your reads?

[Balki Bartokomous]

Also, @Xorx, please comment on the following:

Flum made a really good point that has stuck with me since. If you’re Town, isn’t it super strange that the Xorx wagon on Day 4 did not attract even one scum vote all day? We had three townies pushing the Xorx wagon. Why wouldn’t one mafia member join that wagon? Why wouldn’t scum!kgray join, who would have known that an EMC flip could reflect poorly on her for Day 3? And even if not her, why would the entire scum team pile on the EMC wagon to lynch him over you?

[xorxes]

@Damo, can you please read the case on Xorxes above and comment on it?

Also, Balki, can you comment on it?

Yeah, I will.

@Xorx, should we expect some final push of effort from you today, or is this basically it? Do you feel like your reads are solid, and you just need to convince people? Or are you still undecided on your reads?

What kind of question is that? I'm keeping an open mind, I still have to hear from you, Bunny and Jamiet. I'm more or less clear what kgray, damo and bozo think, but I'm very unclear where all the rest of your heads are at.

[bozotheclown]

What exactly were you referring to when you said you "forgot all that"?

BunnyGo has not answered this question yet. Is anyone else concerned that BunnyGo's reason for changing his vote from kgray to damo does not make sense?

No. I think it's really obvious what he meant by that phrase.

What specifically do you think he is referring to?

[Balki Bartokomous]

@kgray,

Seems like you are assuming a scum team of Damo/Xorx/Bozo.

If that’s the team, Flum would have been a very confused Townie and the only one voting with the bad guys. Why on Earth would that team kill Flum?

[bozotheclown]

CONCLUSIONS FROM THIS LONG BUS RIDE

(1) I find it unlikely that Scum!Xorxes cast that Bob vote for his partner, unless Xorxes is Patient Zero, and didn't know better.

(2) I am doubtful that Damo sincerely believes that Xorxes does not bus. But I want Damo (or anyone else) to tell me if that is common conventional wisdom around here. Please tell me.

scum temam

In a recent game (M1009) I looked for cases of xorxes bussing to determine how likely he was bussing in that game, and did come across the case where he bussed in M42. In that game, MoscowFleet was already under significant suspicion, so I do not think he has ever bussed a teammate by starting a wagon on them like he did with Bob D3. xorxes does bus rarely enough that I do not think it is unreasonable for damo to assume he was not bussing.

There was some discussion about busing vs. distancing before. Do you think xorxes could have been intending to distance from bob, and would have moved his vote if possible? He was gone for a lot of the time leading up to the EOD, and it would have been suspicious for him to move his vote to save bob at that time.

Sure, it is possible, but when I talk about bussing I am referring to voting for a scum teammate at anytime, not just ending on a teammate. I have never seen xorxes start a wagon on a scum teammate, but until M46 I do not think I had seen xorxes bus at all. However, if he is scum, I think it is more likely he is patient zero.

[xorxes]

Also, @Xorx, please comment on the following:

Flum made a really good point that has stuck with me since. If you’re Town, isn’t it super strange that the Xorx wagon on Day 4 did not attract even one scum vote all day? We had three townies pushing the Xorx wagon. Why wouldn’t one mafia member join that wagon? Why wouldn’t scum!kgray join, who would have known that an EMC flip could reflect poorly on her for Day 3? And even if not her, why would the entire scum team pile on the EMC wagon to lynch him over you?

I already answered that to Flum. kgray had been townreading me all game, it would have been very weird if she suddenly changed her read to vote for me. You had been defending me too, so you voting for me would have been odd as well. I think everyone else had been townreading me. As I said, the fact that Fox's scumread that day came out of nowhere was what made me start scumreading him. rivera and Chaqa were not surprizing given that I had been pushing them.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Also, Balki, can you comment on it?

Yeah, I will.

@Xorx, should we expect some final push of effort from you today, or is this basically it? Do you feel like your reads are solid, and you just need to convince people? Or are you still undecided on your reads?

What kind of question is that? I'm keeping an open mind, I still have to hear from you, Bunny and Jamiet. I'm more or less clear what kgray, damo and bozo think, but I'm very unclear where all the rest of your heads are at.

Right. Where is your head at?

[bozotheclown]

Damo is asking us to accept that a great many things are certain and a whole lot of other things are impossible.

Yeah, it's not the right mindset. But I am worried he does this stuff as town too.

I sort of skimmed a bunch of Damo town games, and I couldn't find an easy tell. He is playing like Scum!Damo. But I think it's consistent with Town!Damo too, unfortunately. I need to take a closer look at his meta, as that wasn't really the chief thing I was looking for last night.

@Damo, can you speak to this? I am seeing that you speak in absolutes, and you seem to say things are "certain" or "impossible" more than I expect to come from a town mindset. Is this usually how you play as town? Can you give me examples from a Town!Damo game?

@Xorx, @Bozo, I want your thoughts on the above too, as you have both played a lot with Damo, and you both seem to read Damo as town.

I do not think it is inconsistent with damo's past town games to state what he thinks in that way. The concern I have with damo is the way he tried to get emc lynched at D3 EOD.

[brainbomb]

##Gm note

I found a new job as a kitchen mgr at a golf course. I was unemployed less than a week. thanks all for the kind support. I am here to help gm again if needed
and to resume my wonderful flavour posts bunnygo loved so dearly

[xorxes]

Yeah, I will.

@Xorx, should we expect some final push of effort from you today, or is this basically it? Do you feel like your reads are solid, and you just need to convince people? Or are you still undecided on your reads?

What kind of question is that? I'm keeping an open mind, I still have to hear from you, Bunny and Jamiet. I'm more or less clear what kgray, damo and bozo think, but I'm very unclear where all the rest of your heads are at.

Right. Where is your head at?

kgray + two of Balki/Bunny/Jamie, in that order of likelyhood.

If it's damo+bozo I don't really see who the third could be unless it's kgray again. So even if damo is scum, it would have to be with kgray. Unless it's damo+bozo and a patient zero that didn't know damo was their teammate. I suppose that's possible, but I townread damo more than kgray.

[xorxes]

##Gm note

I found a new job as a kitchen mgr at a golf course. I was unemployed less than a week. thanks all for the kind support. I am here to help gm again if needed
and to resume my wonderful flavour posts bunnygo loved so dearly

##CALL GM: Can we have a vote count with Janet please?