M54: Not a Carrot Conspiracy

[kgray]

I still think kgray is one of the mafia, for the reasons I previously stated, plus the fact that rdrivera got lynched over her D5.

##VOTE kgray

Go do a re-read with no preconceived notion. You have tons more info now than you had when you "previously stated" this.

I have already done that and my previously stated reasons for suspecting kgray still apply. No new information changes that fact that kgray came up with new scum reads of Chaqa and emc D3 after they became wagons and pushed lynching Chaqa or emc over Bob.

You don't think anything that happened after D3 is relevant, or should cause you to rethink your reads?

[Balki Bartokomous]

Kgray, are you going to do a re-read?

[kgray]

Kgray, are you going to do a re-read?

Absolutely

[Fluminator]

Balki, tell me the truth here and I won't necessarily scumread you for it.

Those were fake townslips right?

Have you faked any townslips, or any other kind of slips?

All the time. I even faked not noticing Jamiet's scum read on me, to try to get him off my back lol.

I remember town Balki pulling off interesting convoluted gambits that require intimate knowledge of the roles in the past, so he used to read them.
The ones where he asked questions to the GM instead of looking at the role PMs in post 1 were so over-the-top townslipping I still assume it's fake lol. But maybe he's just gotten lazier.

[bozotheclown]

Go do a re-read with no preconceived notion. You have tons more info now than you had when you "previously stated" this.

I have already done that and my previously stated reasons for suspecting kgray still apply. No new information changes that fact that kgray came up with new scum reads of Chaqa and emc D3 after they became wagons and pushed lynching Chaqa or emc over Bob.

You don't think anything that happened after D3 is relevant, or should cause you to rethink your reads?

I did not say that, but D3 is the only day we lynched scum, so it is still an important day to look at, and nothing from D4 or D5 has changed my interpretation of your reads and voting from D3. Also, unless all of the scum were bussing Bob, the chances of you being scum have increased with the information we have since D3.

[kgray]

I still think kgray is one of the mafia, for the reasons I previously stated, plus the fact that rdrivera got lynched over her D5.

##VOTE kgray

Why do you think rdr being lynched over me makes me scummier?

After Foxcastle claimed, your move to rdrivera was NAI, but the other scum possibilities (from my point of view) did the following:
kept their vote on rdrivera: xorxes, Jamie
moved their vote from Foxcastle to rdrivera: Fluminator
kept their vote on Foxcastle, either because they were not online or because they wanted us to think they were not online: Balki, damo
kept their vote on you: BunnyGo

So, it appears likely there was scum influence in rdrivera getting lynched over you.

Well, I know that rdr and I were town vs. town, and there are several reasons why scum would want/allow rdr to die over me.

In general:
• rdr is much more experienced with this game and the players, and would almost certainly have better instincts than me.
• rdr could very well have had much more accurate reads than me up to this point, so scum would want to keep me around if I'm townreading them and rdr was scumreading them.
• since it was town vs town, scum didn't have to do anything to get a mislynch. So why would they try that hard to save rdr vs. me? Better to just let things happen and avoid making waves.

When you look at individual people, then on top of the top two wagons both being town, you might consider:
• xorxes had been scumreading rdr, so why would he move off rdr?
• Jamie had been townreading me, so why would he move to me?
• Flum had already stated in the thread that he'd rather lynch rdr over me, so again, would have looked strange for him to vote for me.
• Balki/damo could have been gone or not, like you said, but even if they were online, it was town vs. town. So there's no reason for them to vote if they're scum. They could just continue to pretend to be gone and avoid getting any pressure over a kgray vs rdr decision.

[bozotheclown]

If it was town vs. town, I would not expect scum to try to save you, but the things you pointed out about individual players are reasons why they could be your scum partner. xorxes could have been scum reading rdrivera and not you because you are his partner, Jamie could have been town reading you because you are his partner, Fluminator could have said he wanted to lynch rdrivera over you because you are his partner, etc.

In any case, the D5 results are not the primary reason I suspect you, but I do not think they provide any reason to suspect you less.

[bozotheclown]

We are not making any progress toward a consensus lynch. The scum are happy to see the votes spread out. We need to get a majority vote, preferably 7-1 or 6-2, well before EOD, or we should no lynch.

[kgray]

If it was town vs. town, I would not expect scum to try to save you, but the things you pointed out about individual players are reasons why they could be your scum partner. xorxes could have been scum reading rdrivera and not you because you are his partner, Jamie could have been town reading you because you are his partner, Fluminator could have said he wanted to lynch rdrivera over you because you are his partner, etc.

In any case, the D5 results are not the primary reason I suspect you, but I do not think they provide any reason to suspect you less.

Fair enough, I don't think that D5 tells much about my alignment either. But I think that explaining what happened assuming I am scum is a mistake, if you are town. I hope you're at least considering that I could be town when you look at that and the rest of the game.

And I'll accept that, from your point of view, maybe Jamie townread me because we're partners. But, do you think it's likely that xorxes and/or Flum had been scumreading rdr because I'm their partner? I just checked when each of them first mention rdr as a scumread. Xorxes seems like he had been suspicious of rdr for a while but didn't explicitly say that he scumread rdr until he voted for him D4. And Flum first lists rdr as scum N3, in the same post he says he's comfortable saying I'm town. I wasn't getting a lot of pressure at all at that point. I think you were the first person to vote for me, on D5. Why would either of their scumreads on rdr have anything to do with me? That doesn't make sense.

[damo666]

To me the scum team is either:

1 D3 EMC voter & 2 D3 Bob voters incl PZ

or

2 D3 EMC voters (ie Jamie and kgray) & 1 D3 Bob voter

Of the 5 Bob voters I am pretty confident of 2 of them as town. To be disclosed later.

So, from mpov there are 2*3+1*3 = 9 possible scumteams.

k and J are in 6 of these, the three poss scumBobvoters are in 5 so I think I would prefer to lynch k or J.

Are your two scenarios (1 emc voter and 2 bob voters vs. 2 emc voters and 1 bob voter) based on anything concrete, or do you just not think it's likely that all 3 scum were on bob?

I think it most unlikely that both nonPZ scum were bussing Bob therefore either you or Bob MUST be scum.

If the scum team is, say, Xorxes, Flum and Balki well played them because we are sunk.

[damo666]

We are not making any progress toward a consensus lynch. The scum are happy to see the votes spread out. We need to get a majority vote, preferably 7-1 or 6-2, well before EOD, or we should no lynch.

@bozo can we agree on one thing, should we target a bobvoter or an emcvoter?

Also would you care to rank each set in order of scumread.

In fact can everyone do this?

You are of course allowed to omit yourself.

Here's mine:

Bob: Bunny, Flum, Balki, Xorxes, Bozo

emc: kgray, Jamie

[damo666]

We are not making any progress toward a consensus lynch. The scum are happy to see the votes spread out. We need to get a majority vote, preferably 7-1 or 6-2, well before EOD, or we should no lynch.

@bozo can we agree on one thing, should we target a bobvoter or an emcvoter?

Also would you care to rank each set in order of scumread.

In fact can everyone do this?

You are of course allowed to omit yourself.

Here's mine:

Bob: Bunny, Flum, Balki, Xorxes, Bozo

emc: kgray, Jamie

scum to town btw

[Jamiet99uk]

##VOTE NO-LYNCH

[Jamiet99uk]

Bozo seems quite lazy in this game.
Fluminator is being quite odd, still.

I am town, Damo, but thanks for trying.

Rather than making that generalization, can you tell me if you still disagree with me about kgray, and if so, who you think is a better lynch?

Just as your read of Kgray has apparently not changed, my opinion of it has not changed either. I still think you are turning a very small potentially scum-indicative observation into some kind of massive "gotcha" which it doesn't justify.

I was ok to No-Lynch today. Otherwise I might be interested in a Fluminator lynch because he's being sketchy as all hell today.

[BunnyGo]

We are not making any progress toward a consensus lynch. The scum are happy to see the votes spread out. We need to get a majority vote, preferably 7-1 or 6-2, well before EOD, or we should no lynch.

@bozo can we agree on one thing, should we target a bobvoter or an emcvoter?

Also would you care to rank each set in order of scumread.

In fact can everyone do this?

You are of course allowed to omit yourself.

Here's mine:

Bob: Bunny, Flum, Balki, Xorxes, Bozo

emc: kgray, Jamie

Still doing my reread. Notes to come later. In the meantime I haven’t seen anything that convinces me we shouldn’t no-lynch.

Hey Damo, did you think and research your answers there or just pull it out of your a$$? Why are you voting Jamie?

[xorxes]

Balki, tell me the truth here and I won't necessarily scumread you for it.

Those were fake townslips right?

Have you faked any townslips, or any other kind of slips?

All the time. I even faked not noticing Jamiet's scum read on me, to try to get him off my back lol.

I remember town Balki pulling off interesting convoluted gambits that require intimate knowledge of the roles in the past, so he used to read them.
The ones where he asked questions to the GM instead of looking at the role PMs in post 1 were so over-the-top townslipping I still assume it's fake lol. But maybe he's just gotten lazier.

You were calling kgray by her proper name until N3, and then you started calling her kdray. Was that on purpose?

[Fluminator]

Oops, no

[bozotheclown]

If it was town vs. town, I would not expect scum to try to save you, but the things you pointed out about individual players are reasons why they could be your scum partner. xorxes could have been scum reading rdrivera and not you because you are his partner, Jamie could have been town reading you because you are his partner, Fluminator could have said he wanted to lynch rdrivera over you because you are his partner, etc.

In any case, the D5 results are not the primary reason I suspect you, but I do not think they provide any reason to suspect you less.

Fair enough, I don't think that D5 tells much about my alignment either. But I think that explaining what happened assuming I am scum is a mistake, if you are town. I hope you're at least considering that I could be town when you look at that and the rest of the game.

And I'll accept that, from your point of view, maybe Jamie townread me because we're partners. But, do you think it's likely that xorxes and/or Flum had been scumreading rdr because I'm their partner? I just checked when each of them first mention rdr as a scumread. Xorxes seems like he had been suspicious of rdr for a while but didn't explicitly say that he scumread rdr until he voted for him D4. And Flum first lists rdr as scum N3, in the same post he says he's comfortable saying I'm town. I wasn't getting a lot of pressure at all at that point. I think you were the first person to vote for me, on D5. Why would either of their scumreads on rdr have anything to do with me? That doesn't make sense.

It wouldn't if they are town.

[damo666]

We are not making any progress toward a consensus lynch. The scum are happy to see the votes spread out. We need to get a majority vote, preferably 7-1 or 6-2, well before EOD, or we should no lynch.

@bozo can we agree on one thing, should we target a bobvoter or an emcvoter?

Also would you care to rank each set in order of scumread.

In fact can everyone do this?

You are of course allowed to omit yourself.

Here's mine:

Bob: Bunny, Flum, Balki, Xorxes, Bozo

emc: kgray, Jamie

Still doing my reread. Notes to come later. In the meantime I haven’t seen anything that convinces me we shouldn’t no-lynch.

Hey Damo, did you think and research your answers there or just pull it out of your a$$? Why are you voting Jamie?

Yes.

However since posting the above I've had a realisation about one of your posts which puts you 4th behind X

[damo666]

##vote Flum